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Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by JOhnH, Apr 10, 2017.
Makes me appreciate RotorDudeline much better.
not if you saw their latest completion factor and on time numbers ! They're pretty near the bottom of the pile.
I know them well...and will still take them any day of the week over any of the Legacy carriers.
Bottom line you're pretty much an IDIOT when a cop asks you to do something and you don't comply !
Doesn't matter how right you think you are in the moment - it ain't gonna turn out pretty. Didn't this Neanderthal have the brain cells to figure this out ?
And BTW the usual method for picking who gets denied has to do with who payed the least for their ticket. So Priceline weenies beware !
This incident happened just time for summer travel season - sends out a great message on proper behavior.
True - if this had happened on WN the other pax would have likely crushed the guy to death like they did once before !
You just don't mess with the Tractor Pull crowd !
Yup...you don't wanna get between a Southwest PAX and t Honey Roasted peanuts! CPD would have had to call in the Riot Squad!
I just got back from a round trip from Virginia to Hawaii on United. No complaints with my flights, and if anything had a decent experience on the way back with a complimentary change to an earlier connection when requested.
But I was struck by the tone while listening to the gate agents discussing their voucher offer strategy for an overbooked flight from Dulles to St. Louis yesterday. Wasn't a lot of empathy in their conversation.
"$500 voucher should be plenty..."(said flippantly, and with a tone that says 'I'm really about to do someone a favor').
[Fast forward a few minutes worth of requests for volunteers at $500 travel vouchers with no takers, plus a discussion with crew of the smallish plane apparently informing her that baggage was heavy and they were down to 34 from 38 seats or something along those lines.]
"Well now we need 5... But I still say $500 is plenty. We'll try $600. Can go to $750 without authorization, you know... But shouldn't have to."
You know what my time is worth? You know what the situation is of the 35-38-40 people you're talking about in terms voucher dollars?
I felt like piping up and asking her what time she got off... When she responded I was going to ask if $40 worth of gas vouchers, for one brand of gas, only during specific times, was worth her getting off late... By maybe a few hours... By maybe a day?
Tangentially related, but happened yesterday, and was fresh on my mind when I saw this thread/news story.
I'm one of the few who at the very least skims, sometimes really reads, every piece of contract I'm signing. Mortgage closings are painful with me. I read every page, question things, and don't sign if I don't like it. That said, short of chartering a flight, not sure how the public can avoid the various clause's in COC's...
It's a something of a false choice to say "he read, (or should have read), the COC". They can write them, within legal boundaries, to say nearly whatever they desire as it isn't a matter of whether John Q Public reads it or not. He doesn't have any other choice in all likelihood.
Oscar Munoz, CEO of United, said in a statement: "This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United. I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers."
Might become a new meme for violence; even a new verb;
"We are going to have to re-accommodate you, if you don't _____"!
"Don't make me re-accommodate you!"
"Trump re-accommodated Assad this week!"
United merely accommodates passengers, they really aren't needed.
Other than the really low-budget outfits like Allegiant and Spirit, I notice very little difference between airlines these days. I dread them all pretty much equally. If I have a choice, I usually choose JetBlue just because they seem to have a bit more legroom (I never measured it, but it feels a bit less cramped); but other than that, one airline versus the other is basically a shrug for me. They all pretty much suck.
Although I favored it at the time, I blame deregulation for most of the decline in airline quality of service. It's resulted in ridiculously tight margins in the airline industry. Fares went down, but the quality of service has gone down even more.
Then again, the quality of pax has also gone down. I remember in August of 2011 sitting in ORD waiting out a very long WX delay related to Hurricane Irene, which was expected to make landfall within the next 24 to 36 hours, but was already causing enough problems to delay my connecting flight to HPN.
Like everyone else, I was hoping to make it back to New York before Irene hit in earnest, so I understood perfectly well why everyone was stressed out. What I couldn't understand was why they were taking it out on the gate agent. I mean, seriously, it was a ****ing hurricane. What did they expect her to do about it?
On the other hand, UAL did nothing at all to try to make the delay a bit more tolerable. When the delay was announced, I figured they'd at least set out a coffeepot and a couple of boxes of stale donuts. But I was wrong. They did nothing.
Of course, UAL was under no obligation to provide coffee and stale donuts. But back in the old days, before deregulation, I think they would have. The margins weren't so tight back then. They could afford donuts and coffee. Nowadays they'd charge you to use the ****house if they could get away with it.
If there wasn't an airplane involved I'd say the commercial airline experience pretty much puts together everything I hate into one big horrible experience.
I haven't done commercial since 2014 and I told my wife unless it's an emergency or something I won't fly commercial for domestic trips..... and I'm not excited about going international(unless it's in range of my own plane). There's nowhere I have to be urgently or badly enough to put up with all that crap.
Not true. Say I'm "Never Overbook Air". I only sell the seats i have and never one over.
Today we're flying from DEN to SFO with a plane with 180 seats and I sold 180 tickets.
-Now the Air Marshals inform me there will be 2 FAMs on my flight. Guess what? 2 people just got bumped, or
-The inbound flight had a kid vomit on row 23 seat's ABC. We don't have replacement seats at the out station so three seats just go deferred and three revenue pax bumped, or
-Some crew in SFO just timed out and can't take the flight to MIA. We have a replacement crew to save an entire flight but it's gonna mean 4 people with paid tickets get bumped...oh wait.
This guy didn't need to be dragged off. He could have used his feet. UAL could have offered more money. The captain could have deplaned the entire flight and reboarded. It's life. But peeps need to understand buying a plane ticket isn't a guarantee of anything. Seriously...the airline can cancel the entire flight for any reason and all they owe you is the money you gave them...that's it.
How this guy thinks he can claim what amounts to 'squatters rights' on a loaded airliner is beyond me. Basically he just really really really didn't want to be the one and was willing to be dragged by cops to defend that desire, imo.
Buying an airline ticket is merely purchasing a lottery ticket that you'll get on a plane in the seats you reserved and arriving somewhere close to the scheduled time.
I don't think that was true in this case. I have read in multiple places that they let the computer determine the unlucky passengers randomly.
Welcome back Captain!
Squatters don't pay. Hope his lawsuit is VERY successful. Don't have much respect for the apologists here. Or UA. Fly them a lot, not happily, miles and budgetary reasons. When all miles are gone I'm through.
I'm not under any impression to the contrary... And have been stuck overseas when my flight was cancelled for seemingly no reason...
But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. At the very least for public relations sake.
(To disprove my point... Just realized that in spite of my stuck overseas adventure being not two years ago... I can't remember the carrier.)
So your all emotion and no fact, eh? Good luck counselor.
I agree, this is a PR disaster for UAL. They 'should' have offered more incentive to get volunteers. They 'should' have denied boarding to the 'last to check it' or some other concrete system. But the fact remains that there are reasons that passengers can and will be bumped and I can't see how it matters if it happens before or after you're boarded.
I mention that because you know if it happened 15 min earlier in the terminal then it would have been a non-event...it happens every day.
The difference here is two things:
1.) Guy was already boarded, AND <--------Notice the AND
2.) Guy was totally nuts refusing to get off. Anyone of us would have been mad but we would have complied. That's a fact.
Well, they randomly tried to remove my 5 year old from the plane when they overbooked. Idjits.
I hope that airline goes broke and actually gets dissolved for a change. Really no value to that outfit.
United would love for the whole plane to walk out since they already have all the money. They don't have to fly to the destination and would make even more money. In reality, that plane was probably was probably already scheduled to fly from Louisville to another destination, so most likely it would have to fly empty or screw up the schedule.
Jetblue claim that they don't overbook.
Personally, overbooking should be illegal. Or instead of being illegal, airlines who come across a situation like this where they have a plane full of paying passengers and bump them for other passengers/staff get a heavy fine.
Fine, the you'll be ok with ticket prices being raised 3-10% across the board to compensate the difference in sales then, no?
This whole issue illustrates why there are so few professional pilots left on this forum, because of the people who think they know how the system works, yet ignore the people who actually do
No, they would have hated it, even if it worked out financially in their favor. Organizations of any kind don't like it when people under their thumbs join together to protest in solidarity. It terrifies them.
That's why dozens or hundreds of cops in paramilitary gear routinely line the routes of peaceful protest marches. The very idea that people are joining together scares the powers that be, so they simply assume there will be a riot (and in my opinion, sometimes cause one by their very presence).
UAL might in fact have made money if all the pax had walked out, but they'd be scared ****less at the very thought that people were standing in solidarity and saying "Enough is enough."
I get the overbooking thing...I fly spam cans several times a month and there are always no shows and last minute changes/cancelations on every flight...I am one of those that often makes those last minute changes. Seeking volunteers and denying boarding is part of the game these days
This case however is different...literally forcibly removing paying revenue boarded and seated PAX with law enforcement to shuttle MX crew with complete indeffrencet to customer service is the disturbing part.
Where are you coming up with MX crew? It was a 175 flight crew, 1 CA, 1 FO, 2 FAs
Of course you don't, the other versions are much juicier. Perhaps you could list some credible sources ?
I could ask the same of you. In fact we can ask @weilke, whose daughter was selected randomly.
Welcome back, Captain!
But it it's confirmed, how can it be denied? Seems contradictory.
Also, has Louisville recently become the place to be or what? They couldn't get 4 people to get off the plane?
I was told by a United 'customer service' manager that it is the last to check in who gets the involuntary denial.
Type of staff is really irrelevant. It is the fact that it is simply easier to screw over the PAX's lives and schedules for a service they paid for vs finding another way to move their employees. A few pizzed PAX is easier to deal with than added expense of interline or another method to solve their problem in the airlines apparent attitude.
Too big to care.
You screw over your customers, you are bound to pay the price eventually which they are due to their epic failure in how they handled the situation.
4 ****ed passengers in ORD or 76 the next day in SDF, take your pick. United picked 4 in ORD, it didn't work out.
Yeah, it was probably the past of least resistance and may have been necessary...or not...but can you honestly say United handled the situation correctly?...and I do not mean legally correct...I mean properly.
As I said before...if you have to call the cops to solve this specific scenario, something has epicly failed in the company's policies and procedures as well as decision making.
You think 120-150 people getting off together would really terrify them?
Honestly, the comments about bad PR are a joke. As somebody said already, people will comment, share, etc all of this for about 3 days, and then biz as usual. If Kayak or Google Flights show United being cheaper, most people will book United. That's just how it goes.
The bigger issue here is the police brutality, but never pass up a chance to bag on an airline. "I'll never fly them again," says every Tom, Dick and Harry. 2 weeks later its the cheapest ticket and they're on UA again.
I wasn't there, I can't tell you if it was handled properly. The actual facts of the story are probably somewhere between the dramatized lawyer created story of the doctor and that of United