Unaccommodating instructor during a firefighting operation

She did wait to takeoff and let the fire plane go first. Some, or at least one fire plane was waiting to take off on 34 in the audio. Where were they tanking on water. Was it at the end of 16, middle of field or end of 34. What is the normal pattern for 16?

Why did the fire company decide to use that airport? Lots of questions.

While taking my ppl checkride the examiner and atc got into it on the radio. I never really understood what is was all about, or maybe just forgot. But after we finished the ride, the examiner got the towers number, and while I was waiting in the other room for the paper work to be done there was a lot of screaming on the phone.

While taxiing into the gate at LGA one day I was being chastised by the hair lipped Vietnamese ground controller about something, and he wanted me to copy the number. I had the first officer tell him we will get it when parked at the gate. He came unglued and demanded we call right away. I got on the radio, and said I'LL GET THE xxxxx NUMBER AND CALL YOU AT THE XXXXXXXXXX GATE.

I got the number and called. His supervisor answered, assured me we did nothing wrong and apologized for the controller.
 
It's not like that is the only airstrip in the state of Cali to practice "slam and scrams."
 
Mikey52 said:
Why did the fire company decide to use that airport? Lots of questions.
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It‘s Cal Fire, and McClellan is their air tanker base HQ. They have a dozen or so tanker bases throughout the state, each with two S-2 air tankers and one OV-10 air attack (spotter). They also have some C-130s now. Their base is generally at one end, close to the threshold. When fighting a fire, they land toward their base, reload with retardant, and depart from their base - minimum taxi time. The turnaround time on the S-2s is less than 10 minutes.
 
Perhaps should she go back and learn about ADM. perfect opportunity to teach her student how to make good decisions.

The winds were variable and low, it was only occasionally an 8 kt tailwind.

I feel for all the people around her, her voice, combined with attitude would be intolerable.
 
francisco collazos said:
IDK why people just don't admit their mistakes and double down on buffoonery. A simple we are sorry and we will do better next time would go a long way towards resolving this situation.
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Becuase they think they are right?
 
Salty said:
Just blows my mind in general that people have such lack of empathy to not GTFO of the way of emergency response vehicles, whatever the situation is.
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clearly that and also there were SO many "lessons to be taught" in that scenario but she chose "not landing with a tailwind" to be the most important one of them all. shame shame.
 
Half Fast said:
Maybe. But there's a difference between thinking you're right and being unwilling to admit you're wrong.
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Yeah. I guess she knew she was right. Without a doubt.

Not in reply, just to add…

Watching this video reminded me a lot of the thousands of videos on the web of people in traffic stops explaining to cops how the constitution works. Same kind of self righteous ignorance on display.
 
Half Fast said:
Maybe. But there's a difference between thinking you're right and being unwilling to admit you're wrong.
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Hotheads gonna hothead.

The life-and-death professions value calmness under pressure. Astronauts, test pilots, surgeons, generals, ship captains, all practice calm yet firm demeanor. Comes from practicing internal self control. GA and commercial pilots should work on that too. Is that not a training point for CFI's?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Yeah. I guess she knew she was right. Without a doubt.

Not in reply, just to add…

Watching this video reminded me a lot of the thousands of videos on the web of people in traffic stops explaining to cops how the constitution works. Same kind of self righteous ignorance on display.
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Apples and oranges.
 
It was refreshing to see blanco find his nads again and show some snark online wrt flight school owner, especially in the wake of his public genuflection when the estate of the dead rich guy lawfare'd his 1A.

Reddit says the CFI apparently is the owner's sex partner. Shocker. The blind white knighting and double down, to include attempting to intimidate a USAF pilot with threats of command reprisal (lulz) over an online review, strike me as more predictable in that context.
 
Salty said:
Just blows my mind in general that people have such lack of empathy to not GTFO of the way of emergency response vehicles, whatever the situation is.
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Try driving an emergency vehicle. Between the people that freeze up at the sight of emergency lights, the ones that can't hear the siren over their music, the ones oblivious to the world around them, or the ones that refuse to move because they don't want to miss their turn, its often times faster to not use lights and sirens.

The one that always sticks in my mind from years ago, I'm driving an ambulance into the ER. Both medics and a couple of firefighters doing CPR in the back trying to save a life. All of the traffic moved to the right like they are supposed to, except one idiot in a Dodge Durango who stayed in the left lane, going 20 mph, with me in the ambulance on his butt siren wailing, air horns blasting, and not a clue.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I'm driving an ambulance into the ER. Both medics and a couple of firefighters doing CPR in the back trying to save a life. All of the traffic moved to the right like they are supposed to, except one idiot in a Dodge Durango who stayed in the left lane, going 20 mph, with me in the ambulance on his butt siren wailing, air horns blasting, and not a clue.
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I'm guessing the PIT (TVI) maneuver wasn't allowed ... :rockon:
 
Daleandee said:
I'm guessing the PIT (TVI) maneuver wasn't allowed ... :rockon:
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Not that the thought has never crossed my mind, but as the driver my job is to get the rig and the patient to the hospital as quickly, smoothly, and safely as I can so the medics working in the back can do their job. Remember they are not usually strapped in, and can actually be standing over the patient at times trying to get things done.

And if I'm driving the ambulance, things are already bad. I'm not an EMT and we firefighters only get pulled into driving when they need all the medics in the back.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Not that the thought has never crossed my mind, but as the driver my job is to get the rig and the patient to the hospital as quickly, smoothly, and safely as I can so the medics working in the back can do their job. Remember they are not usually strapped in, and can actually be standing over the patient at times trying to get things done.

And if I'm driving the ambulance, things are already bad. I'm not an EMT and we firefighters only get pulled into driving when they need all the medics in the back.
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I was being totally facetious. Many moons ago I was an EMS driver for one summer and as Slick Willie would say, "I feel your pain."
 
I think my concern would have been wake turbulence. But, when your prime objective is building time for the airlines local fires vice dammed.
 
Daleandee said:
I was being totally facetious. Many moons ago I was an EMS driver for one summer and as Slick Willie would say, "I feel your pain."
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Not with an ambulance, but with an engine, a professional department around here has been known to give a little "love tap" to encourage folks to get out of the way.
 
I'm a little late to the party and just watched Juan's video a few minutes ago. Something tells me the FAA might want to speak with the school owner in the near future? Or will they wait until one of his planes falls out of the sky?
 
Video has been taken down. If I had to guess, I would say some lawyers got involved. Although it's not like they did anything other than provide the information and did not offer any commentary.

 
It appears Juan's commentary to clear up misconceptions remains online ... for now

 
Huh. On a completely unrelated note, I wonder if it makes sense to close an airport for pattern work while firefighting operations are underway. Partly I say that because in my experience staying in the pattern at a towered field seems like an optional thing that the controller will permit if workload and traffic allow it. Restricting traffic only to departing and arriving traffic, kinda like I believe I've seen for some other TFRs, seems like a reasonable compromise compared to just closing the airport to anything but FF traffic during operation.

I may be being a jerk here, but I'm thinking less than others...not referring to anyone on this forum.

The other thought in the back of my head is - I wonder what the monetary cost is of delaying a firefighting crew? Just a random thought. The cost is probably insignificant. Maybe sarcasm. I'm not sure.
 
Albany Tom said:
Huh. On a completely unrelated note, I wonder if it makes sense to close an airport for pattern work while firefighting operations are underway. Partly I say that because in my experience staying in the pattern at a towered field seems like an optional thing that the controller will permit if workload and traffic allow it. Restricting traffic only to departing and arriving traffic, kinda like I believe I've seen for some other TFRs, seems like a reasonable compromise compared to just closing the airport to anything but FF traffic during operation.

I may be being a jerk here, but I'm thinking less than others...not referring to anyone on this forum.

The other thought in the back of my head is - I wonder what the monetary cost is of delaying a firefighting crew? Just a random thought. The cost is probably insignificant. Maybe sarcasm. I'm not sure.
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No need to close the field. It’s a piece of cake to extend your pattern, or break off and re-enter so they can get in and out.
 
ateamer said:
No need to close the field. It’s a piece of cake to extend your pattern, or break off and re-enter so they can get in and out.
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If everyone is cooperative, and it's just 2 sets of aircraft, I agree. I've done it myself. Not with firefighting, but when flying into a non-controlled field where the charter jet wants to fly straight in and land with a 10 knot tailwind, and I don't. Not a big deal if everyone tries to work with each other. But if it's a busy practice field, or if people aren't friendly, then it falls apart and IMHO can become a safety issue. Once people get wound up about something it's been my experience that rational behavior and safety can go out the window.
 
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