It's also easy to calculate from published speeds and load factor limits.Which nobody has, except maybe you when you were working in flight test, on airplanes that weren't Part 23. LOL.
Jus' send us a spreadsheet with circles n arrows n stuff. Maybe even a paragraph on the back...I'd say I'd like to see that math, but I'll probably regret it.
You can get anything you want....How do I draw on the back of an .xls file?
Vcx = Vsref*sqrt(nl*Wx/Wref),I'd say I'd like to see that math, but I'll probably regret it.
Vo, but for real-world conditions.I Still struggle with corner speed. I have had multiple military pilots try and explain the math behind it, and I never understand it. At this point, I just accept it, even if it does not make sense.
I Still struggle with corner speed. I have had multiple military pilots try and explain the math behind it, and I never understand it. At this point, I just accept it, even if it does not make sense.
Tim
In a dogfight, it gives you the maximum available lift available for turning without having to KIO for an over-G. (You still have to factor in load onset rate)
Yeah, as a civilian pilot I've never heard the term before and I've been around a long time. So, I looked it up and the definition starts out, "The lowest speed a fighter can pull..." so no wonder you can't understand it. It's a "fighter". They aren't interested in going slow, they want to go fast. So it's the FASTEST speed for something or another and I'm betting on "turning the plane (EDIT: quickly) without damaging it" is the answer.I Still struggle with corner speed. I have had multiple military pilots try and explain the math behind it, and I never understand it. At this point, I just accept it, even if it does not make sense.
That's not accurate, a tighter turn is possible at airspeeds below corner speed. It is the speed that gives the maximum instantaneous turn rate.
![brian]](/community/data/avatars/m/21/21096.jpg?1456258959){kind=avatar}
What's his (or her) reasoning for that? The rudder is there to remain coordinated and help with yaw. Why would someone use it as the primary roll function? Seems like that could make someone get in the habit of inadvertently skidding or slipping, which can be dangerous (if not deadly) in the pattern, especially in the base to final turn
One of the things I love about PoA the most
You had to remind me dint ya? I flew from Denver down towards Brownsville in May once to check out a piece of equipment we were interested in buying. The dust devils were topping out over 10K. I had to go to 13,500 to avoid most of the bumps. On the flight back I found a snowstorm in the panhandle. Had to get an IFR clearance because visibility dropped so low in the snow. Weird weather for that trip.
Maybe it got confused way back when somebody taught (correctly) that the turn needle on a T&B is a yaw instrument, so use rudder to center the needle instead of the ball, and that got twisted over a couple of generations into what the OP described.
Never flown with. I have a grand total of 20 hours steam gauges, everything else is glass PFD.
We all pick up stuff that's weird to others but makes sense to us. You never know what someone is thinking unless you ask. And even then....
Roscoe,
.
WelcomeI think some of us, me included, owe tspear a 'thank you' for rattling our outdated understanding of Va. The new (if I can call a 24 year old change 'new') 'Vo' is what we old-timers have learned as 'Va'. In our time there was no distinction made for the true meaning of 'design' speeds vs. 'operating' speeds. Here's the Preamble note on the establishment of Vo:
Proposal 67
The FAA proposed a change to Section 23.1507 to establish an operating maneuvering speed (VO) different from the design maneuvering speed (VA) established by Section 23.335(c). VO is the maximum speed where, at any given weight, the pilot may apply full control excursion without exceeding the design limit load factor.
The one commenter, the JAA, believes that this new concept of VO needs further discussion. The JAA also notes that, while proposed Section 23.1507(a), establishing an operating limitation, is correctly located, Section 23.1507(b), which defines VO, should be moved to become Section 23.335(d) while retaining the existing definition of VA, design maneuvering speed, at Section 23.335(c).
The FAA disagrees with moving the VO definition to Section 23.335, since it would put an operational definition in the design section of part 23. The VO definition in Section 23.1507 is consistent with the requirements of Sections 23.1505 and 23.1511, namely, that the relationships between "operating" speeds and "design" speeds are established. The comment has caused the FAA to re-examine and reword proposed Section 23.1507. The revised wording deletes the definitions of computed stall speed (VS) and the limit maneuvering load factor (n) and utilizes those already contained in Section 23.335. The final rule section heading includes the word "operating" to maintain a distinction from the design maneuvering speed of Section 23.335. The FAA adopts Section 23.1507 with the change discussed above.
And here is the change to Part 23.1507:
Sec. 23.1507Thanks, tspear.
[Operating] maneuvering speed.
[The maximum operating maneuvering speed, VO, must be established as an operating limitation. VO is a selected speed that is not greater thanestablished in Sec. 23.335(c).]
Amdt. 23-45, Eff. 09/07/93
I would guess that previous type certifications do not have published Vo speeds.
dtuuri
Vo, yes. Va, not so much anymore. I'll defer to an engineer to explain that.Welcome
Now can anyone explain the physics?
...and therefore cannot stall.