Training for IFR in non-IFR aircraft

I had a Sporster, but sold it for a Kawasaki Z900RS. I love the Kawa but I wish I never sold the Harley. My wife rides a Honda Hornet 919.
 
tsts4 said:
I'm in Apollo Beach and have been frequenting the ShowTown bar there in Gibtown of late (pretty good wings on Wed's). Anyway, if you guys need a tiebreaker to settle differing points of view or just a quorum to look at/talk planes, give me a shout.
Click to expand...

Well shucks, you are right down the road from Wimauma. Give me a yell whenever you want to look at old planes. Farangutan is talking about next Weds at 5pm. We could make it an informal PoA meetup.
 
Ok, I have an AI and DG. Now I can get some hood time with a buddy.

PXL_20250609_034623001.jpg

If I can hand fly a Decathlon, I could probably hand fly anything. No AP, pitch trim is very crude, and little dihedral so not stable in roll.

I wired up the DG to get GPS nav data from iFly EFB on my phone. I added the IFR option to iFly so I can get geo-refed plates and load approaches. Any merit in going out and flying some local GPS non-precision approaches with that setup?
 
Last edited:
farangutan said:
Let's go!
Click to expand...

Definitely! Let's set up a lesson. I'd like to get a good maneuvering workout under the hood to see if the plane and instruments are suitable, before I make the decision to throw a GPS 275 in the panel.
 
Got about 90 minutes of hood time this weekend with a CFI friend, including shooting my first two RNAV approaches.

I was pretty pleased with myself. After the first 5 minutes I felt quite confident in my ability to fly the aircraft. The CFII was complimentary. The pair of AV-30's work well together.

That said, I am rethinking the wisdom of equipping the Decathlon and training in it. Autopilot is not an option and the Decathlon is NOT a stable platform, especially in roll. Keeping it on heading while fiddling with nav systems was a handful.
 
After you get it trimmed out, how long can you go hands-off before you need to apply corrective inputs?
 
asicer said:
Admittedly, that's not great. But I suspect that you might be able to figure out a way to manage if you stick with it.
Click to expand...

I suspect I would be one hell of a hand flyer. But to what end?
 
Last edited:
I just remembered I still need to get the 25 hours of simulated instrument time in addition to dual.

That's just me with a hood and a safety pilot ... no IFR plans, no clearances, no approaches, no procedures, no ATC, right? Just toodleing along straight and level with the blinders on.

Is there anything stopping me from logging that time in my Decathlon as currently equipped, ie pair of AV-30's and portable GPS nav?

So maybe I do that and then get the 15 hours of dual in a real IFR airplane?
 
Last edited:
Ed Haywood said:
I just remembered I still need to get the 25 hours of simulated instrument time in addition to dual.

That's just me with a hood and a safety pilot ... no IFR plans, no clearances, no approaches, no procedures, no ATC, right? Just toodleing along straight and level with the blinders on.

Is there anything stopping me from logging that time in my Decathlon as currently equipped, ie pair of AV-30's and portable GPS nav?

So maybe I do that and then get the 15 hours of dual in a real IFR airplane?
Click to expand...
The simulated instrument time is time that you control the plane solely by reference to instruments, with a view limiting device and a properly qualified safety pilot. It’s best to use those hours to practice what you have already learned from a CFII, and not to ingrain bad habits by practicing them. But legally it’s all the same whether you spend 25 hours flying complicated approaches under the hood or spend those hours flying cross country, straight and level.

ETA: You can fly it all VFR without a radio, all IFR with an instrument rated and current safety pilot who agrees to be PIC and picks up an IFR flight plan, a mix, etc.
 
Last edited:
Ed Haywood said:
I just remembered I still need to get the 25 hours of simulated instrument time in addition to dual.

That's just me with a hood and a safety pilot ... no IFR plans, no clearances, no approaches, no procedures, no ATC, right? Just toodleing along straight and level with the blinders on.

Is there anything stopping me from logging that time in my Decathlon as currently equipped, ie pair of AV-30's and portable GPS nav?

So maybe I do that and then get the 15 hours of dual in a real IFR airplane?
Click to expand...
I wrote this and then realized I am echoing @iamtheari. Good,

Yes you can certainly do that and reap the usual benefits: learn nothing, develop bad habits, and increase your training with the instructor.

Most instrument training takes longer than those 15 hours and uses a lot of the excess. I have always thought of the safety pilot option as the instrument trainee’s version of student solo - practicing what was learned, preferably with the instructor involved in the process.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I just remembered I still need to get the 25 hours of simulated instrument time in addition to dual.

That's just me with a hood and a safety pilot ... no IFR plans, no clearances, no approaches, no procedures, no ATC, right? Just toodleing along straight and level with the blinders on.

Is there anything stopping me from logging that time in my Decathlon as currently equipped, ie pair of AV-30's and portable GPS nav?

So maybe I do that and then get the 15 hours of dual in a real IFR airplane?
Click to expand...
That's pretty much what I did. For over a dozen years, an hour or 2 with each BFR, some time with safety pilots, etc. for 20 hours and then did the final 20 hours at a 4 day finish up plan. But I did it in my plane so I was super comfortable with the panel, the handling, the speeds, YMMV.
 
Ed Haywood said:
hat's just me with a hood and a safety pilot ... no IFR plans, no clearances, no approaches, no procedures, no ATC, right? Just toodleing along straight and level with the blinders on.
Click to expand...
No IFR Flight Plan or Clearance is correct. You're wrong on all the other stuff.

You most certainly can do Approaches, that's kind of the point of doing it. A **LOT** of your practice after you get your Inst. Rating may very well be under the hood with a Safety PIC. As for how to do the Approaches, I'd request Flight Following right off the and tell you'd like "Practice Approaches" at whatever Airport you're going to do them at. You'll never get an "IFR Clearance" but you will get an Approach Clearance just like you do with your CFII. Odds are they will add onto the end "Maintain VFR" but even if they don't, you're still VFR.

So go do Holds, Approaches, whatever you most need work on with other Inst. students or pilots you know. If you go with a fellow Inst student, make sure they remember they're there to LOOK OUT THE WINDOW. They shouldn't get involved in your Approach or any long discussion about it. Not that you can't talk about it, they just need to remember they're the one looking for all that NON ADS-B traffic that still is flying around out there.
 
M20K said:
No IFR Flight Plan or Clearance is correct. You're wrong on all the other stuff.

You most certainly can do Approaches, that's kind of the point of doing it. A **LOT** of your practice after you get your Inst. Rating may very well be under the hood with a Safety PIC. As for how to do the Approaches, I'd request Flight Following right off the and tell you'd like "Practice Approaches" at whatever Airport you're going to do them at. You'll never get an "IFR Clearance" but you will get an Approach Clearance just like you do with your CFII. Odds are they will add onto the end "Maintain VFR" but even if they don't, you're still VFR.

So go do Holds, Approaches, whatever you most need work on with other Inst. students or pilots you know. If you go with a fellow Inst student, make sure they remember they're there to LOOK OUT THE WINDOW. They shouldn't get involved in your Approach or any long discussion about it. Not that you can't talk about it, they just need to remember they're the one looking for all that NON ADS-B traffic that still is flying around out there.
Click to expand...
…and clouds. A safety pilot who doesn’t keep you from violating VFR minimums isn’t doing his job.
 
iamtheari said:
…and clouds. A safety pilot who doesn’t keep you from violating VFR minimums isn’t doing his job.
Click to expand...
Yep. It's all about looking out the window as they ARE flying VFR!!
 
iamtheari said:
…and clouds. A safety pilot who doesn’t keep you from violating VFR minimums isn’t doing his job.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget airspace violations. You can both be in the hook for those.

And, after all, we now have a pilot who has received no training doing approaches and holds with perhaps YouTube as their only guide and nothing but a safety pilot who may be equally ignorant of how to do them properly. That kind of stuff can happen.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Don’t forget airspace violations. You can both be in the hook for those.

And, after all, we now have a pilot who has received no training doing approaches and holds with perhaps YouTube as their only guide and nothing but a safety pilot who may be equally ignorant of how to do them properly. That kind of stuff can happen.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to me?
 
Ed Haywood said:
Are you referring to me?
Click to expand...
I was reacting to another post in light of what I said earlier about the general problem I see with building instrument time for the rating by doing things without being related to training. I have no idea whether it applies to you or not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top