TNFlyGirl Final NTSB report issued

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I hate to say this because:
(1) she's deceased;
(2) she seemed good natured in her videos (and clearly loved flying);

But she was a bad pilot. Plain and simple. It's pretty open and shut case for anyone who took even 30 minutes to watch her videos.

A perfectly functioning Cessna 172 would have been too much aircraft at her skill level -- and a Debonair with a malfunctioning auto pilot was a death sentence.
 
Lindberg said:
There are some exceptions. But I really do think skepticism is warranted.
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I don't even disagree. There are a lot of people with a lot of different motivations, but, yeah, not all of them are healthy.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
I hate to say this because:
(1) she's deceased;
(2) she seemed good natured in her videos (and clearly loved flying);

But she was a bad pilot. Plain and simple. It's pretty open and shut case for anyone who took even 30 minutes to watch her videos.

A perfectly functioning Cessna 172 would have been too much aircraft at her skill level -- and a Debonair with a malfunctioning auto pilot was a death sentence.
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Agree, and I think the system failed her! She should never have been able to get - or keep - her PPL! I wonder if we'll see any civil action, in that regards...?
 
schmookeeg said:
a 709 ride based on hearsay?
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My understanding is that the FAA Administrator (read as, FAA bureaucracy) has complete discretion whether to reexamine a pilot. That might run into an Administrative Procedures Act "Arbitrary and Capricious" challenge, but those are very hard to win.
 
DJTorrente said:
My understanding is that the FAA Administrator (read as, FAA bureaucracy) has complete discretion whether to reexamine a pilot. That might run into an Administrative Procedures Act "Arbitrary and Capricious" challenge, but those are very hard to win.
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With her, all they needed to do was watch a video or two.
 
DJTorrente said:
My understanding is that the FAA Administrator (read as, FAA bureaucracy) has complete discretion whether to reexamine a pilot. That might run into an Administrative Procedures Act "Arbitrary and Capricious" challenge, but those are very hard to win.
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​

Pretty much cut and dried right here...........​

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49 U.S. Code § 44709​

(a) Reinspection and Reexamination.—

(1) In general.—

The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may reinspect at any time a civil aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, design organization, production certificate holder, air navigation facility, or air agency, or reexamine an airman holding a certificate issued under section 44703 of this title.
(2) Notification of reexamination of airman.—Before taking any action to reexamine an airman under paragraph (1) the Administrator shall provide to the airman—

(A) a reasonable basis, described in detail, for requesting the reexamination; and

(B) any information gathered by the Federal Aviation Administration, that the Administrator determines is appropriate to provide, such as the scope and nature of the requested reexamination, that formed the basis for that justification.
 
Am I the only one that finds it interesting that a 40+ yr old pilot needs her non-pilot father with her to discuss ones abilities with a flight instructor. Like a teenager still needing adult supervision.
 
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DJTorrente said:
My understanding is that the FAA Administrator (read as, FAA bureaucracy) has complete discretion whether to reexamine a pilot. That might run into an Administrative Procedures Act "Arbitrary and Capricious" challenge, but those are very hard to win.
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Well, seen them win, and easily, was obvious… BUT STILL, no actual consequences ergo no change. THAT is the problem.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
 
Rick A said:
Maybe because she was hoping that the current autopilot was ultimately going to be fixable (or learnable). It doesn't appear this last flight was intended to drop off the plane, so maybe the intent of letting the pitch excursions was to provide a good description of the autopilot's deviations to the destination shop. Not disconnecting and then hand-flying may have been intentional. And she ignored (or forgot about) airspeed management while screwing around. Then stalled and spun.

Dropping off a plane for panel work at another airport takes having all the necessary parts and equipment already there, an appointment, and a friend with a plane to willing to pick you up and fly you home. Or airline tickets. And maybe luggage for a stay. None of that was ever mentioned in the NTSB report, or by anybody else.

IMO this flight may have been taken to provide an evaluation of the current condition of autopilot's status, and recommendations as to what her options were. Only then could the shop create an estimate.

The last Garmin boxes I had installed took over 4 months to be delivered to the shop, and the appointment date was a little later yet.
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I'm almost certain they were going for a full replacement and were planning to rent a car and drive home but how I know that, I don't remember.

But her existing autopilot had been removed and repaired already. Highly doubtful she was flying hours away just to repair the same one again.
 
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eman1200 said:
Eh, a lil different here. This person was almost entirely incompetent. Jerry can at least turn his autopilot on. But yeah.
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He going above and beyond and even making changes i.e. now, thanks to him, you have "secondary minimums." :biggrin:
 
She logged 182.6 hours of dual instruction with 193.2 hours total flight time before receiving her private plot certificate... I know many take 70-100 hours but 182.6?

Alprazolam was detected in liver tissue at 222 ng/g (Do Not Issue/Do Not Fly medication)
Alpha-hydroxyalprazolam was detected in liver tissue at 57 ng/g (Do Not Issue/Do Not Fly medication)​
Trazodone was detected in liver tissue at 286 ng/g (Do Not Issue/Do Not Fly medication)
Buspirone was detected in liver tissue at 55.5 ng/g) (Do Not Fly medication. w/ CNS depressants = sedation and cognitive slowing)
Ondansetron (disqualifying medication), propranolol, fexofenadine, and azacyclonol (and Oxymetazoline) were detected in liver

She was beyond impaired. The combination of potent sedatives (alprazolam and its metabolite), a sedating antidepressant, and additive CNS-active drugs created a state where safe functioning, especially flying, was highly unlikely if not impossible.

Pilot Debrief did a video on this before the Final Report (awaiting the updated video)...

I think this whole situation was not just a one-time thing and sadly this time it ended tragically for her and her father.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Based on first-hand reports. “I saw the pilot do this,” not, “Joe told me he saw the pilot do this.”
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Reminds me of the YouTube court cases in which "sovereign citizen" types automatically label any testimony they don't like as hearsay.
 
"I'm sorry, my fans await my next video and I have to make sure the 4 cameras are just right. Do the seats clash with my clothes?"

She was beyond dangerous. I saw the videos before they were taken down and was surprised she lived that long.
 

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FlightmechH3 said:
"I'm sorry, my fans await my next video and I have to make sure the 4 cameras are just right. Do the seats clash with my clothes?"

She was beyond dangerous. I saw the videos before they were taken down and was surprised she lived that long.
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sad but true
 
Racerx said:
Am I the only one that finds it interesting that a 40+ yr old pilot needs her non-pilot father with her to discuss a ones abilities with a flight instructor. Like a teenager still needing adult supervision.
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With 96% of her flying hours being dual, I think she found comfort in a passenger even though they may not have any experience flying at all...
 
Lindberg said:
Maybe we can stop pretending that documenting one's life online for the approval of strangers is something that well-adjusted people feel the need to do.
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Don't forget that YouTube's monetization algorithm rewards stupid videos the same as intelligent ones.
 
dmspilot said:
I'm almost certain they were going for a full replacement and were planning to rent a car and drive home but how I know that, I don't remember.

But her existing autopilot had been removed and repaired already. Highly doubtful she was flying hours away just to repair the same one again.
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Could be a rent a car, a lot of driving, and a return when finished. Never considered that choice. I've always considered using a car as a last resort. Most pilots based around here are glad to help out. It's a reciprocal pilot's gentleman (or women) duty thing.

Regarding the old Century autopilot. Just because it may have been recently repaired doesn't mean much (per my 4+ years of experience trying to fix an old Century - per response # 5)
 
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Doc Holliday said:
(A) a reasonable basis, described in detail, for requesting the reexamination; and
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The "reasonable basis" requirement is there but I've never heard of a case where someone successfully challenged a 709 ride for not having a reasonable basis. Not a reported one, anyway. I'm sure there have been situations in which a 709 was withdraw at the FSDO level.
 
FPK1 said:
With 96% of her flying hours being dual, I think she found comfort in a passenger even though they may not have any experience flying at all...
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Not doubting that. But an instructor had a conversation with her AND her father about the Debonair being too much plane.
 
Bill said:
Because she knew that she was reliant on the technology to control the airplane.
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In one of her videos she gets lost immediately after departure and turns the autopilot on. It takes her in circles around the airport - circled it maybe 2-3 times. Absolutely insane and after seeing the tox report she simply should not have been flying.
 
FPK1 said:
With 96% of her flying hours being dual, I think she found comfort in a passenger even though they may not have any experience flying at all...
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DeltaCharlie172 said:
In one of her videos she gets lost immediately after departure and turns the autopilot on. It takes her in circles around the airport - circled it maybe 2-3 times. Absolutely insane and after seeing the tox report she simply should not have been flying.
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Bizarre to watch. I hadn't viewed any of her videos before the Hoover's Pilot Debrief video was posted.

Actually, she seems more "with it" than her Father, who IMO seems way too silent, passive and nonplussed during her aimless circles around the airport. You'd think least he would know the difference between east and west, and could have volunteered a helpful hint.

I'd imagine there are a few people involved in the GA world around the downtown Knoxville airport that may have some serious regrets about how her short flying experience was handled. Wonder if any CFI laid it on the line and told her to give it up before she trekked out on her own? Probably not.
 
I’m struck with the dissonance between her video character: bright, cheerful, happy and the psychiatric and anti-anxiety meds prescribed. Social media is all presenting a false image to the outside world, often, as seemingly in this case, completely at odds with reality.
 
DeltaCharlie172 said:
In one of her videos she gets lost immediately after departure and turns the autopilot on. It takes her in circles around the airport - circled it maybe 2-3 times. Absolutely insane and after seeing the tox report she simply should not have been flying.
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yeah I think I called out that video specifically in the original thread on this accident... That incident struck me as beyond a red flag.
How do you get lost less than 60 seconds after takeoff on a bluebird VFR day? It's starting to make more sense now.
 
And that’s why it’s a mishap. Lots of links that would have stopped this yet NONE did. Statistically very unlikely. There’s a lot to be learned in this from that perspective.

Not the details, but the methodology of lots of little things adding up. Or how seemingly obvious red flags get ignored.
 
Rick A said:
Actually, she seems more "with it" than her Father, who IMO seems way too silent, passive and nonplussed during her aimless circles around the airport. You'd think least he would know the difference between east and west, and could have volunteered a helpful hint.
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That reminds me of a girlfriend who was riding with me, and the return flight was night VFR. During the climb to get above the hills, she asked if we were going in the right direction. It turned out that she had a better sense of direction than I did! I guess that was a clue that I needed to recommit myself to careful planning for night flights!
 
Palmpilot said:
That reminds me of a girlfriend who was riding with me, and the return flight was night VFR. During the climb to get above the hills, she asked if we were going in the right direction. It turned out that she had a better sense of direction than I did! I guess that was a clue that I needed to recommit myself to careful planning for night flights!
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just curious what flying at night has to do with knowing what direction to go?
 
Y'know, I forget the details now, but I recall when I was watching her flying in one of her last videos that the behavior of the autopilot (a C2000, IIRC) seemed to me to be consistent with what is expected - and she simply had no clue what to expect! I think she engaged in heading mode and never set the bug - something like that.

A tragedy in every way.
 
According to the final report, she got her PPL in 160HP Cherokee 140, then promptly sold it to buy the Debonair, a plane with one hundred more HP and retractable gear. The report didn't mention if she ever received either a High-Performance or Complex endorsement. I can believe she flew the cherokee well enough for a DPE. I have questions about her in the Debonair. According to the final report, her airspeed and altitude varied wildly for about 30 minutes before she crashed. Either those drugs were new and absolutely destroying her, or she never was competent enough for that plane.

Does anyone know if she was legal in the Debonair? That is, did she have the complex and HP endorsements required to fly it?
 
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