The FAA has been infected...

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Turbo-Arrow-Driver, Nov 28, 2022.

  1. Turbo-Arrow-Driver

    Turbo-Arrow-Driver Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2019
    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    NorCal

    Display name:
    Turbo-Arrow-Driver
    Perhaps this happened a while ago and I missed it. Either way, I just noticed this today:

    Apparently, NOTAMs are no longer "Notices to Airmen", but "Notices to Air Missions". I guess humans are no longer required. The next time I get a briefing, I'll pass those notices along to the mission, whatever the heck that is.

    Really? Seriously? This is getting ridiculous.
     
  2. Baked Potato

    Baked Potato Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2022
    Messages:
    309

    Display name:
    Baked Potato
    I guess that's easier than changing the acronym, which we're pretty much stuck with. I do wonder how it feels to be a female "airman" though, which is the prevalent term (even in the USAF) even though women have been flying since the beginning of aviation.
     
  3. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    6,614
    Location:
    Alexandria VA

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    Pretty much everyone thought it was dumb. It’s not as though the FAA dropped the use of the word “airman” as it is grounded in legal terminology.

    My vote was just call them “Notams”. It doesn’t have to stand for anything, it’s just a word that refers to notifying people who care about aviation stuff.
     
  4. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    17,122
    Location:
    Oakland, CA

    Display name:
    Bro do you even lift
    probably the same as being a female "human". but wtf do I know.
     
  5. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    14,264
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    Delete this before someone who can actually run with it and eff it up sees it and gets ideas. I cannot imagine the hupersonamity off it all.
     
    SoonerAviator likes this.
  6. Jim K

    Jim K En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
    Messages:
    3,988
    Location:
    CMI

    Display name:
    Insert cool name here
    Yeah, happened about a year ago to much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    I guess they had to find something to do since they got all caught up on registrations and their certification work.
     
  7. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2020
    Messages:
    4,456

    Display name:
    Dale Andee
    Wasn't this about the same time students became "learners" and the cockpit of my experimental became a "flight deck"?
     
  8. CaptainXap

    CaptainXap Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    102

    Display name:
    Captain Xap
    Moving to this country I was pretty surprised at all the official FAA language that was still highly gendered. It felt like I'd jumped back in time.

    We're in the 2020s. Do you think that terms like 'airmen', 'repairman' etc should live on that way for ever? If we're going to change them, might as well change them now.
     
  9. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,477

    Display name:
    Bob Noel
  10. Daleandee

    Daleandee En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2020
    Messages:
    4,456

    Display name:
    Dale Andee
    It gets pretty confusing as now the term "guys" is considered by many to be gender neutral. Personally I really don't care. I was raised to believe that real men are men and real women are ladies.

    Guys & gals used to be the terms used but now the term gal is considered to be derogatory. Go figure. I'll try not to offend anyone but some of this is just way beyond stupid ...
     
  11. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    11,875
    Location:
    FL

    Display name:
    Salty
    You jumped back in time to when words mean what they mean and not what some offended person wants to be offended by.
     
  12. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    8,281
    Location:
    A Rubber Room

    Display name:
    Cli4ord
    If you were a dispatcher it would be more logical.
     
  13. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    19,404
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC

    Display name:
    Action Figure Model
    Could it have to do with the presence of a lot of military UAV's operating out of civil airports?

    Where you based at? I used to drive a Turbo Arrow all over Norcal. I did my PPL at KAPC.
     
  14. sarangan

    sarangan Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,711

    Display name:
    Andrew, CFI-I
    There's a lot of things in aviation like that. A student recently asked me what RNAV stands for, and I could not think of it at the moment. CTAF, AWOS, VASI, LPV, ILS etc... all are used like words. It doesn't matter what the letters stand for.
     
  15. Racerx

    Racerx Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    2,414

    Display name:
    Ernie
    "As December 2, 2021, the long name for NOTAMs switched from Notices to Airmen to Notices to Air Missions.

    The Institute for Women Of Aviation Worldwide who was first to denounce the FAA’s gender-excluding terminology and advocate for its replacement welcomes the change in terminology for NOTAMs"
     
  16. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,477

    Display name:
    Bob Noel
    how ironic
     
    Crashnburn and GaryM like this.
  17. Llewtrah381

    Llewtrah381 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    741

    Display name:
    Llewtrah
    1) “First, seek to understand, then to be understood”

    2) If this is one’s most important issue to complain about rather then, say, not having electricity in the cold because a superpower bombed it out of your country, then maybe one has more to be thankful for than to complain about.


    Just some thoughts…
     
  18. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    11,796
    Location:
    Maryland

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    Yup…and maple syrup, instant rice and Washington football will never be the same either. But, the natives are now friendly. ;)

    wokism is in full effect….
     
    tjfelles and Darryl Snover like this.
  19. cowman

    cowman En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,981
    Location:
    Danger Zone

    Display name:
    Cowman
    I feel like the fact the NOTAMs are basically a huge mess of mostly irrelevant information with an occasionally critical tidbit thrown in is a bigger concern. That's the only complaint to be had here, they spent human and financial resources to make this change that nobody really cares about. They could have put that into something that might actually do some good instead.
     
  20. Half Fast

    Half Fast Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 7, 2016
    Messages:
    10,412
    Location:
    Central Florida

    Display name:
    Half Fast
    Someone here suggested that “Notice to Aircrew Members” would have been better than the silliness the FAA invented.

    C’est la FAA. I seem to recall a quote about straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel....
     
    Palmpilot likes this.
  21. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    19,404
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC

    Display name:
    Action Figure Model
    Oh. Perfect move to relegate womens’ role in aviation back to the stone ages.
     
  22. dtuuri

    dtuuri En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2011
    Messages:
    4,939
    Location:
    Madison, OH

    Display name:
    dtuuri
    Pardon me, but shouldn't they be "Missionmen Of Aviation Worldwide"? :dunno: just my first reaction.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
  23. Jeff Oslick

    Jeff Oslick En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,917
    Location:
    Fullerton, CA

    Display name:
    Jeff Oslick
    This. No matter what they chose to call it, the NOTAM system is a POS.
     
    mcdewey and Half Fast like this.
  24. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,673

    Display name:
    3G
    A women’s org cheering the removal of the word airmen should look at why they call themselves Women of…..
     
    Zeldman, RyanShort1 and Velocity173 like this.
  25. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    4,047
    Location:
    Seattle

    Display name:
    Ron Wanttaja
    I'll have to ask my Persons of Hench.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  26. kkoran

    kkoran Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Renton, WA

    Display name:
    Kent
    It's in preparation for fully autonomous drones.
     
  27. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    13,457
    Location:
    Wichita, KS

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    Just go with “minions”.

    works for NOTAMS, too…hmmm…
     
  28. Llewtrah381

    Llewtrah381 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    741

    Display name:
    Llewtrah
    LOL. 100 years ago, women getting to vote was “woke”, I bet.

    Old men have been yelling at clouds for at least that long, I’m betting…

    3DDFA242-6AB1-4CAB-81EA-E4EC113C172C.jpeg
     
  29. SkyChaser

    SkyChaser Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2020
    Messages:
    1,461

    Display name:
    SkyChaser
    I am a woman, and I understand that English uses the word "men" to mean 'people', and am not offended or excluded by words like "repairmen" or "airmen" because it's a lot easier than saying "repairpeople" or "airpeople", and means the same freaking thing. Plus, if I'm going to be offended about that, I also have to be offended about huMAN, perSON, and woMAN, for starters, and that's just bordering on the ridiculous.

    Of course, I am considering being offended that people think that women, and by extension, I, am so easily offended that using normal English would cause me such mental anguish that they have to change words to accommodate me or I won't feel welcome to "slip the surly bonds". :cool:
     
  30. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    15,267
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Yes I do, it doesn’t bother me a single bit, but I’ve got far more important things in my life to be concerned about than this stuff.
     
  31. texasclouds

    texasclouds En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    2,836
    Location:
    Bryan, Texas

    Display name:
    Mark
    I better keep my mouth shut ;-)
     
    N659HB and Checkout_my_Six like this.
  32. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Final Approach

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    6,927
    Location:
    Olympic Peninsula

    Display name:
    DW
    Would be much easier to change to word “Notification” in Websters to “Notamification”

    problem solved
     
    SkyChaser likes this.
  33. Pugs

    Pugs Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,261
    Location:
    Maryland

    Display name:
    Pugs
    My rant involves the FAA actually spending time on the issue when there are so many things in their regulations that could actually benefit from time spent on clarification. How many 1000's of person hours (see what I did there?) were spent on this meaningless change? :D
     
    Half Fast likes this.
  34. dbahn

    dbahn Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Vermont

    Display name:
    Dave Bahnson
    The FAA is not a biologist. :eek:
     
    Jim K likes this.
  35. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,125
    Location:
    New Bern, NC

    Display name:
    El Conquistador
  36. Feh

    Feh Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2022
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Ill-annoy

    Display name:
    Foxtrot Echo Hotel
    The word cockpit will be banned soon enough.
     
    Checkout_my_Six likes this.
  37. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    4,125
    Location:
    New Bern, NC

    Display name:
    El Conquistador
    And yet, isn’t the name of the organization gender excluding? As a man, I don’t feel that I would be welcomed. Funny how that works. I just now contacted the organization to inform them how sad I am that while I support their cause, I can’t feel welcome to support their organization because I’m a male. Wonder what kind of reply I will receive.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2022
  38. Tools

    Tools Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    1,148

    Display name:
    Tools
    Uh… spoiler alert… if you’re a man, you AINT welcome there. Just sayin. And ya, funny how that works! Geesh…
     
    Checkout_my_Six likes this.
  39. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    20,477

    Display name:
    Bob Noel
    idle thought: don't language like Spanish have words that are masculine and others that are feminine? is the woke mafia in Spain looking to change the Spanish language?
     
    X3 Skier, Palmpilot and RyanShort1 like this.
  40. SkyChaser

    SkyChaser Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2020
    Messages:
    1,461

    Display name:
    SkyChaser
    Apparently, you men just need to show your superior emotional control and not be offended by it...oh wait, no, we're equals in every sense...so I guess you guys need to start throwing hissy fits??? But no, you can't do that, because if you do, that's some sort of supremacy and stuff, so I guess you're just screwed.

    Almost every other language in the world has masculine and feminine words and forms, including Spanish, French, German, Greek, and Italian from my personal knowledge. I don't know of any crusades to change that, but I'm sure that will change eventually. Or maybe they'll just make it illegal to talk because someone might be offended.