The 7 Deadly Sins of Radio Communications

[Pilawt]

My only radio complaints are people who call for "any traffic please advise" or "airport advisories".

It's perfectly appropriate to ask for "airport advisory", even if an AWOS/ASOS is present.

AIM 4-1-9 (e):

On pilot request, UNICOM stations may provide pilots with weather information, wind direction, the recommended runway, or other necessary information. If the UNICOM frequency is designated as the CTAF, it will be identified in appropriate aeronautical publications.​

 

[exncsurfer]

Why is it considered wrong\bad or whatever to ask if there's anyone in the area or runway in use when approaching a non-towered airport?

Your announcement of your position is the trigger for the response from any traffic that finds your position relevant to a response from them.

 

[Mooney Fan]

I always want to say "And with your spirit" when I hear "With you."

I also want to either respond "Promise?" or "I'll take a double bourbon," to the "Last Call" reports.

"Tally Ho", references to the "Fish Finder", "Looking," etc... should be banned as response to traffic calls.

Years ago we were flying down south somewhere and there was this guy in a Mooney (I swear from the background noise it was probably an M-10 with the window open) who answered every ATC transmission with "There ya go."

I have always wanted to be flying on "Talk Like A Pirate Day" so I can acknowledge transmissions with "Arrrr!"

"Arrr! There be yer button matey."

Tally ho was used by a Commander I used to fly with in the QF-4J. Doesn’t it have British roots?

 

[Timbeck2]

I'm not bothered by "Tally ho." It's actually much shorter than, "six zero uniform has traffic in sight."

 

[Salty]

I’ve been hearing variations of “xxx traffic, what’s the runway situation?” Or “what are runway conditions?” lately. Keep in mind this is in Florida with no storms in sight.

I’ve been answering something like “I just took off (or landed) on it, so I know it’s still there”.

 

[Bill]

I’ve been hearing variations of “xxx traffic, what’s the runway situation?” Or “what are runway conditions?” lately. Keep in mind this is in Florida with no storms in sight.

I’ve been answering something like “I just took off (or landed) on it, so I know it’s still there”.

"Condition 1"

 

[Pilawt]

I'm not bothered by "Tally ho." It's actually much shorter than, "six zero uniform has traffic in sight."

I'm partial to "Yoicks! The fox!"

 

[Timbeck2]

It's been too long Jeff. When's the next AZ POA fly in?

 

[wayne]

I will use IFR fixes at non-towered airports if I hear other traffic up doing instrument approach practice. Not hard, or long, to say, "over FIX_NAME, 10 nm southeast of AIRPORT in bound low approach only". Then both IFR and VFR traffic know where I am and what I'm planning to do.

 

[Pilawt]

It's been too long Jeff. When's the next AZ POA fly in?

Soon, I hope!

 

[RyanB]

Some of the local fields in the area, upon the initial contact, will reach out with a wind check and whether there are planes in the pattern. Remember, not everyone out there has a radio. Also, upon release from ATC, as part of the release they mention whether any traffic is observed between you and the airport. Nashville Approach is real good about saying whether traffic is in the pattern at John Tune when on an IFR approach

A lot of times before I cancel flight following, I’ll tell ATC, ‘Skyhawk 123 has XYZ in sight, if no other traffic in the area we can squawk VFR.’

They’ll advise if any aircraft are in the pattern or near the airfield. Kind of nice just to have a heads up.

 

[labbadabba]

What about “last call” while departing?

I use last call sometimes with a final position report. You never know who might be tuning in, I figure as long as you're not stepping on someone's Tx it doesn't hurt to have one more bit of info out there for someone else's SA.

 

[luvflyin]

This really is a non-issue. We have controllers on here that fly and they even use it when they're flying. I've come to see nobody really cares.

I'm with ya on that

 

[luvflyin]

At Santa Paula CA (SZP) they expect to hear calls such as.... Flying Brick XXXXT inbound over the junkyard for 22. The next call is downwind over the golf course for 22. Also, goat mountain gets some airtime lol.... It just depends on the local environment. Although its not illegal, doing a straight in for Rwy 22 or Rwy 4 and you will be executed. Now, that was in the mid 90's through early 2000's so maybe things have changed.

I flew in there a few years ago. Everyone was talkin about the junkyard so I said "I'm a stranger, whats this junkyard ya'all talkin about." Someone told me. Found out later they have a website with a diagram of how they do patterns there with all those landmarks on it. I've found that at other airports. When I fly into airport where 'local' landmarks are used, and I know them, I use both them and position. Bumphuq traffic, bugsmaher one two three is 8 miles West over the junkyard. That way the strangers got an idea where you are and the locals have you pinpointed

 

[flyingron]

I'm not bothered by "Tally ho." It's actually much shorter than, "six zero uniform has traffic in sight."

TRAFFIC IN SIGHT is the accepted form and only has one more syllable. But, you're right that doesn't bother me as much as all the things that people say when they mean "NEGATIVE CONTACT."

 

[flyingron]

Why is it considered wrong\bad or whatever to ask if there's anyone in the area or runway in use when approaching a non-towered airport?

And apparently, it bothered someone at the FAA enough that they put an explicit "Don't freaking do this" in the AIM with regard to that. All the rest are just things that the official documents are silent about (other than giving the PROPER phraseology).

 

[tspear]

I am pretty sure that whomever authored this treatise on the seven deadly sins of communication is exemplifying the first deadly sin: Pride.

The reality, a large number of these "sins" listed are about treating pilots like computers and not using natural language.

Tim

 

[flyingron]

My first solo XC I called into CYS tower and they told me to report "the flame." I told them I was unfamiliar with that landmark. The response was "you'll see it."
Sure enough, the route of flight took me over an oil refinery with one of those perpetual burning vent flames.

But the long drawn out guys are the real painful ones:

CES: Center, I gotta request when you got the time.
CTR: Who's calling and what is your request.
CES: Cessna 4YF. I was wondering if I could get higher.
CTR: What altitude would you like?
CES: Some where about 8000.
CTR: Climb and maintain 8000.

Where
"Center, Cessna 4YF, Request 8000"
would have been a lot quicker.

 

[Mooney Fan]

I flew in there a few years ago. Everyone was talkin about the junkyard so I said "I'm a stranger, whats this junkyard ya'all talkin about." Someone told me. Found out later they have a website with a diagram of how they do patterns there with all those landmarks on it. I've found that at other airports. When I fly into airport where 'local' landmarks are used, and I know them, I use both them and position. Bumphuq traffic, bugsmaher one two three is 8 miles West over the junkyard. That way the strangers got an idea where you are and the locals have you pinpointed

lol... That is around another reporting point for OXR, CMA and SZP... Saticoy Bridge

 

[PaulS]

I hate those who go over the grocery list on CTAF.

 

[Bill]

TRAFFIC IN SIGHT is the accepted form and only has one more syllable. But, you're right that doesn't bother me as much as all the things that people say when they mean "NEGATIVE CONTACT."

Is "NO JOY" still a proper phrase in that instance?

 

[Mooney Fan]

Is "NO JOY" still a proper phrase in that instance?

'Looking' followed by call sign indicates not in sight. And when they start using only your last 3 like Cherokee 20J traffic XYZ, it's OK to start responding with the abbreviated call sign. But I think those who use Tally Ho, also use No Joy. There is a video on here somewhere that has the commander I referenced using Tally Ho on our approach to NAS Pt Mugu

 

[Bill]

'Looking' followed by call sign indicates not in sight. And when they start using only your last 3 like Cherokee 20J traffic XYZ, it's OK to start responding with the abbreviated call sign. But I think those who use Tally Ho, also use No Joy. There is a video on here somewhere that has the commander I referenced using Tally Ho on our approach to NAS Pt Mugu

My typical responses are either "have traffic" or "looking" followed by callsign.

 

[flyingron]

Is "NO JOY" still a proper phrase in that instance?

NEGATIVE CONTACT is the recommended phrase.

 

[Zeldman]

I think something might be wrong with your radio. I'm not sure I've ever experienced this.

It has happened in several different aircraft over the last 25 years or so in several different areas.

Only happens with the one person that keys and speaks at the same time. But every now and then there is that one person, and they usually speak in a louder then needed voice, and it usually happens after the frequency has been idle for a while, hits the button and speaks at the same time. I am sure I am not the only one to hear this.

I guess I should blame one instructor I had. It used to bug him as well....

 

[flyingron]

My typical responses are either "have traffic" or "looking" followed by callsign.

Neither is appropriate. The two phrases you want are "TRAFFIC IN SIGHT" and "NEGATIVE CONTACT."

 

[flyingron]

'Looking' followed by call sign indicates not in sight. And when they start using only your last 3 like Cherokee 20J traffic XYZ, it's OK to start responding with the abbreviated call sign. But I think those who use Tally Ho, also use No Joy. There is a video on here somewhere that has the commander I referenced using Tally Ho on our approach to NAS Pt Mugu

Tally Ho is fine if you're in the military. Wannabes should stick to approved civilian phraseology.

 

[Zeldman]

But I think those who use Tally Ho, also use No Joy

And probably wear adult size onesies they bought from Sporty's....

 

[Timbeck2]

Neither is appropriate. The two phrases you want are "TRAFFIC IN SIGHT" and "NEGATIVE CONTACT."

If I'm the controller issuing a traffic call and immediately get a "negative contact" I'm thinking, "well geez jackass would you at least look first?"

 

[flyingron]

If I'm the controller issuing a traffic call and immediately get a "negative contact" I'm thinking, "well geez jackass would you at least look first?"

The controller assumes you will look for called traffic. The only thing that matters is whether you have it in sight or not. Whether you're "looking" or can see it on the "fish finder" means nothing.

 

[Timbeck2]

As a controller, I assume NOTHING.

 

[asicer]

My typical responses are either "have traffic" or "looking" followed by callsign.

I usually give my callsign first just in case I happen to spot the traffic right after the mic is keyed.

 

[bobmrg]

AIM 4-1-9:


"1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition." (My emphasis)

Bob

 

[Larry in TN]

My typical responses are either "have traffic" or "looking" followed by callsign.

"Tally ho" and "no joy" are military phraseology and are not listed in the pilot/controller glossary. "Traffic in sight" and "negative contact" are the only applicable phraseology in the P/CG.

 

[FlyBoyAndy]

AIM 4-1-9:


"1. General. Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition." (My emphasis)

Bob

I like to follow rules and I'm fine with this. In my area I'm use to the vast radio clutter, so someone saying Podunk traffic Cessna 123XY 10 miles north inbound for landing airport advisory has never bothered me. I always thought it was helpful.

 

[Velocity173]

"Tally ho" and "no joy" are military phraseology and are not listed in the pilot/controller glossary. "Traffic in sight" and "negative contact" are the only applicable phraseology in the P/CG.

Yep and I think most services have abbreviated “tally ho” to just “tally.” Unless they’re old school, they might put the “ho” on the end. Depending on the particular service, negative contact on the freq change could be a “no joy” as well.

 

[flyingron]

I like to follow rules and I'm fine with this. In my area I'm use to the vast radio clutter, so someone saying Podunk traffic Cessna 123XY 10 miles north inbound for landing airport advisory has never bothered me. I always thought it was helpful.

"Airport Advisory" is a request directed to the UNICOM (or in old days the on-field FSS) for information.

 

[kath]

"Airport Advisory" is a request directed to the UNICOM (or in old days the on-field FSS) for information.

We still have on-field FSS's in Alaska.
And they're *expecting* you to call them first for advisories, even if there is an AWOS or something.

 

[Kritchlow]

Then there are the bizjets who call Podunk Unicom on CTAF from FL380 (i.e., line-of-sight to the entire Western Hemisphere, and all the other airports on the same CTAF) to arrange for fuel (with Prist, please), oxygen, lav service, lodging, transportation, feminine companionship, no blue M&M's in the candy jar, eggs over medium for breakfast, and call Mr. Bigwig's wife at 212-555-xxxx and tell her he arrived safely somewhere else.

While I understand that’s an annoyance, it’s a call that’s warranted. If the FBO doesn’t have a discreet frequency.... it’s on them.

 

[Kritchlow]

Why is it considered wrong\bad or whatever to ask if there's anyone in the area or runway in use when approaching a non-towered airport?

Right, and you get "sdflkjalkjdskfjlbiwejklfjelsflss downwi sdlfksdkjdsflsj base sdlfksdfjsldk..."

If there’s 5 planes in the pattern and they all answer at the the same time, what are you going to do?

I realize I’m in the minority here, but imo there are times when atitppa is appropriate. There are also times it is not appropriate.