TEL Factory

The conundrum is that 100LL has gone from 1,000,000 gallons per day to 400,000 gallons per day over the past 30-40 years per EIA. For perspective, auto gas is 300+ million gallons per day.

Maybe the NA engines up to around 8.5:1 can use a high octane (auto) gasoline possibly with some increased fuel flow and maybe a few degrees of retard. No idea how the turbos with their reduced detonation margins will be accommodated - maybe alcohol injection.

Or maybe a detonation sensor can be used in addition to a variable timing capable ("e-mag") to control things, at a cost in power.

Then there are the vapor pressure considerations and gravity vs. 100% pumped system. All good fun to ponder; solutions will be clever and probably expensive.
 
Steamflyer said:
The conundrum is that 100LL has gone from 1,000,000 gallons per day to 400,000 gallons per day over the past 30-40 years per EIA. For perspective, auto gas is 300+ million gallons per day.

Maybe the NA engines up to around 8.5:1 can use a high octane (auto) gasoline possibly with some increased fuel flow and maybe a few degrees of retard. No idea how the turbos with their reduced detonation margins will be accommodated - maybe alcohol injection.

Or maybe a detonation sensor can be used in addition to a variable timing capable ("e-mag") to control things, at a cost in power.

Then there are the vapor pressure considerations and gravity vs. 100% pumped system. All good fun to ponder; solutions will be clever and probably expensive.
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....or we could just use G100UL.
 
StraightnLevel said:
....or we could just use G100UL.
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"We" are apparently a bunch of whiny pilots who refuse to let go of 100LL.
"G100UL makes my 50 year old bladders leak, and seeps through 40 year old tank sealants that I refuse to replace."

Reminds me of switching to synthetic oils, and all the drama about them causing oil leaks.
 
StraightnLevel said:
....or we could just use G100UL.
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Agree it is approved. My concern is if it will permeate the 100LL network as it exists now where almost every airfield has supply. To do so I think the STC has to be on demand (free) so everyone is regulatory captured, and then the inventors and formulators make money on flowage.

If it’s the only viable solution that is, then make the “formula” (presumably protected by trade secrets and/or patents) freely available and get compensated on usage. Otherwise fear G100UL will exist in some places some of the time making impromptu cross country flying difficult. May not really work but that’s some thoughts.
 
kyleb said:
What's the auto gas octane spec for that STC? I bet it ain't 94.
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Auto gas "octane" and AVGAS octane are two different things.

On pumps in the US, the number you see is AKI (Anti Knock Index) which is the average of MON and RON octane numbers. For various reasons, the MON/RON spread is about 10 points. So a 93 AKI MOGAS is about 88 MON.

MOGAS MON is close to the AVGAS lean rating.

So the normal pump MOGAS is about 88 AVGAS octane. MOGAR regular is about 82 AVGAS octane.

UL94 is 94 AVGAS octane.

The UND issue with UL94 appears to be due to low octane for the way they were operating their engines. So UL94 is not a panacea for all lower compression engines.
 
Steamflyer said:
The conundrum is that 100LL has gone from 1,000,000 gallons per day to 400,000 gallons per day over the past 30-40 years per EIA. For perspective, auto gas is 300+ million gallons per day.

Maybe the NA engines up to around 8.5:1 can use a high octane (auto) gasoline possibly with some increased fuel flow and maybe a few degrees of retard. No idea how the turbos with their reduced detonation margins will be accommodated - maybe alcohol injection.

Or maybe a detonation sensor can be used in addition to a variable timing capable ("e-mag") to control things, at a cost in power.

Then there are the vapor pressure considerations and gravity vs. 100% pumped system. All good fun to ponder; solutions will be clever and probably expensive.
Click to expand...
If that’s the case I can use unleaded on any piston airplane. I’m always operating with a few degrees of retard
 
Pinecone said:
Auto gas "octane" and AVGAS octane are two different things.
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The point (that you're helping to make) is that an airframe/engine combination that doesn't work with mogas doesn't rule out a successful outcome with 94UL.
 
Steamflyer said:
If it’s the only viable solution that is, then make the “formula” (presumably protected by trade secrets and/or patents) freely available and get compensated on usage. Otherwise fear G100UL will exist in some places some of the time making impromptu cross country flying difficult. May not really work but that’s some thoughts.
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The formula IS freely available to anyone.

You just have to sign a contract to pay GAMI based on how many gallons you produce.

It has been this was from the beginning.
 
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