SR-22 reported down north Glenwood Springs, CO 4 fatalities

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JohnWF

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John at Salida
Sad business...only info is from internet news.
 
:( I wonder if they were trying to follow the airway V8 instead of the valley.

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Definitely "chute" territory if one suddenly finds themselves in an SR-22 glider...

Edit: flightaware lists no SR-22 departures from FNL on Friday afternoon/evening so maybe on flight following rather than IFR.

EditEdit: FNL --> CNY puts him just about on the V8 airway Everskyward noted.
 
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Damn. Low overhanging clouds delayed the search. Anyone know the wx around the times this may have happened?
 
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luvflyin said:
Damn. Low overhanging clouds delayed the search. Anyone know the wx around the times this may have happened?
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Need someone to google that for you?
 
luvflyin said:
Nah, but how? "historic wx?" I've seen the old METARS here before, just don't know how to get them.
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So your answer is naw/yeah? Okay

Go to aviationweather.gov and look for surface weather observations. That's one way and the are other methods.

It looks like 200' ceilings at GWS at the time of the crash. Maybe it was layered and the guy was in the clear. I've flown over fog and between layers in a single engine over the mountains...but always solo.
 
Excerpts from CAP report:
On Friday, 9/15, 2350 local time ... reports that an aircraft disappeared from radar approximately 10 miles northwest of Glenwood Springs CO. The Cirrus SR22 was on a VFR flight from Ft Collins (KFNL) to Canyon UT (KCYN) with no reported flight plan, but with flight following.

There were no reports of an ELT being heard at the time. Local weather was IFR in the area with low ceilings and ground fog. The TAF for the morning was encouraging with MVFR to VFR in the local areas. .... Next few hours doing ramp checks by phone and working with the CAP radar forensics team on the radar track of the aircraft .... which identified the last know position (LKP) of the aircraft. ...... The area of the LKP is in a wilderness area with few access roads and rugged terrain.

The first crew from Montrose lifted off MJT at 0745 local to proceed to the LKP. A second crew from Grand Junction lifted off shortly later for a route search along the most probable route as a precaution in case the aircraft flew low under radar coverage due to the weather. The Montrose crew arrived at the LKP on top of the overcast and was diverted to Rifle (KRIL) to land and wait for the ground fog to burn off. When the fog burned off, the Montrose crew departed RIL and flew to the LKP. At that point, smoke was noted on the ground near the LKP. A MedEvac helicopter was inbound and was directed to the smoke area by the Montrose crew.
 
Clark1961 said:
So your answer is naw/yeah? Okay

Go to aviationweather.gov and look for surface weather observations. That's one way and the are other methods.

It looks like 200' ceilings at GWS at the time of the crash. Maybe it was layered and the guy was in the clear. I've flown over fog and between layers in a single engine over the mountains...but always solo.
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He sucked ya right in Clark! You did his leg work. ;):)
 
mscard88 said:
He sucked ya right in Clark! You did his leg work. ;):)
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I had already checked. Looked at flightaware then checked weather. And I got the snarky comments in for free.
 
Everskyward said:
:( I wonder if they were trying to follow the airway V8 instead of the valley.
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Pure speculation:
That was my thought also when I first heard about it. But if the information is correct - marginal conditions at night in the mountains. Sad but textbook CFIT, also accounting for the non-use of the chute.
 
murphey said:
Excerpts from CAP report:
On Friday, 9/15, 2350 local time ... reports that an aircraft disappeared from radar approximately 10 miles northwest of Glenwood Springs CO. The Cirrus SR22 was on a VFR flight from Ft Collins (KFNL) to Canyon UT (KCYN) with no reported flight plan, but with flight following.

There were no reports of an ELT being heard at the time. Local weather was IFR in the area with low ceilings and ground fog. The TAF for the morning was encouraging with MVFR to VFR in the local areas. .... Next few hours doing ramp checks by phone and working with the CAP radar forensics team on the radar track of the aircraft .... which identified the last know position (LKP) of the aircraft. ...... The area of the LKP is in a wilderness area with few access roads and rugged terrain.

The first crew from Montrose lifted off MJT at 0745 local to proceed to the LKP. A second crew from Grand Junction lifted off shortly later for a route search along the most probable route as a precaution in case the aircraft flew low under radar coverage due to the weather. The Montrose crew arrived at the LKP on top of the overcast and was diverted to Rifle (KRIL) to land and wait for the ground fog to burn off. When the fog burned off, the Montrose crew departed RIL and flew to the LKP. At that point, smoke was noted on the ground near the LKP. A MedEvac helicopter was inbound and was directed to the smoke area by the Montrose crew.
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Pretty much an IMC situation at night with an undercast even if in unlimited visibility. Easy for a VFR only guy to lose it.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Pure speculation:
That was my thought also when I first heard about it. But if the information is correct - marginal conditions at night in the mountains. Sad but textbook CFIT, also accounting for the non-use of the chute.
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If he was on radar in that area then he was well above terrain.
 
luvflyin said:
Nah. But I'll take credit for that, lol. I went to that link and now I know how to do it
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No credit for you. Wannabes like you have to get in line. There was no link, only a direction to a website and a hint of what to look for at that website.
 
Clark1961 said:
No credit for you. Wannabes like you have to get in line. There was no link, only a direction to a website and a hint of what to look for at that website.
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Dayum. The ol' it's a copy and paste not a link ploy and I fell for it.
 
There was mention that he may of got his pvt pilots license in the last 9 months or so? Besides the possible IMC issue, it was dark over very serious terrain.

Very tragic for all involved.
 
Very sad, as they all are.
Always wonder why single engine pilots fly routes with no options. I built my own engine but still respect the fact that parts fail and no options is often a death sentence.
 
The family dog died in the crash also. Very tragic, but maybe some solace in that they all went together.
 
Seems like he initially had the autopilot engaged but then hand flew the plane. The last radar records show the aircraft right at the level of the highest peaks.

IMG_6156.PNG

Looking at the fluctuating airspeeds and later into the flight also altitudes, I am wondering if he encountered turbubulences!?
 
I have to wonder if they decided to only go above 12,500 for the part they though they had to in order to not exceed the 30 minutes without Oxygen, then dropped back down. Having just come back from that neck of the woods, the nose hose sucks but I wouldn't do that flight without it.
 
That sucks. And having made it to Glenwood Springs area he was nearly out of the mountains.

I've flown to Rifle and Glenwood Springs from Salt Lake. And I've flown to Denver and back taking the northern route through Wyoming. Can't say I would want to take a single engine plane packed with the family at night and possibly in weather directly west from Denver.
 
General consensus on COPA is that this flight never should have been initiated. Low-time pilot, night, weather, mountains - a deadly combination. Night, weather and mountains would dissuade most of the experience pilots in the discussion.

A lot of discussion about ADM, and how it can be taught. But that ultimately, low-time pilots may not be in position to accurately weigh risks.
 
Looks like the flight was a straight line from Fort Collins to Moab.

That might indicate a lack of knowledge about the terrain. Baxter Peak is 11,185' MSL.

What terrible consequences. :(
 
FastEddieB said:
General consensus on COPA is that this flight never should have been initiated. Low-time pilot, night, weather, mountains - a deadly combination. Night, weather and mountains would dissuade most of the experience pilots in the discussion.

A lot of discussion about ADM, and how it can be taught. But that ultimately, low-time pilots may not be in position to accurately weigh risks.
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Any reference to verify low time? I can't find the pilot in the FAA database. Does COPA have more info?
 
FAA database shows he was certificated in March
 
Another risk factor is that the oxygen requirements are not solely based on physiology, but represent some kind of compromise between requiring oxygen at lower altitudes and allowing a pilot without oxygen on board to get to most or all of the country. During instrument training, I flew an extended time at 12,000 MSL and my pulse oximeter told me I was around 90% O2 sat. (In my experience, if you go below 90% in the hospital, the nurses start praying over you.) Night vision is one of the first things to go when you're not getting enough oxygen. There are just way too many risk factors involved in this flight. Night + mountains ought to have been reason enough to wait for morning.
 
FastEddieB said:
General consensus on COPA is that this flight never should have been initiated. Low-time pilot, night, weather, mountains - a deadly combination. Night, weather and mountains would dissuade most of the experience pilots in the discussion.

A lot of discussion about ADM, and how it can be taught. But that ultimately, low-time pilots may not be in position to accurately weigh risks.
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COPA???
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
FAA database shows he was certificated in March
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In all fairness, we don't know if the flight was at night or not. The AFRCC (Air Force Rescue Coordination Center) sent the call at close to midnight.

Another datapoint. He took the Colorado Pilots High Altitude Airport ground school (full day) in mid August this year. He was scheduled for the flight (next day?) with an experienced mountain CFI but it's unknown at this time if it happened. We haven't been able to get in touch with the CFI yet.

The CPA course stresses issues with flying out here in the west
1) Weight & balance
2) Density Altitude
3) Do not fly in mountains at night in single engine airplane
4) Do not fly in mountains IFR in single engine airplane.
5) Always file a flight plane, even VFR
6) Always make frequent PIREPs so ATC knows where you are.
7) Mountains and weather.

So, new pilot, high performance airplane, questionable weather, beginner knowledge of mountain flying, unknown practical experience in the mountains.
 
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