SR-22 reported down north Glenwood Springs, CO 4 fatalities

[FastEddieB]

COPA???

Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association.

Reports are of newly minted Private Pilot with about 150 hours.

 

[Clark1961]

Looking at the aircraft history on flightaware there were recent flights to Granby and Steamboat. Both flights appear to be more-or-less direct and used the altitude capability of the aircraft.

The last flight looks like he may have been roughly following the Colorado river which equates to lower terrain. I have use that route and it is benign in good vis. The turn towards higher terrain just past EGE is difficult to explain. What was he thinking?

 

[Clark1961]

In all fairness, we don't know if the flight was at night or not. The AFRCC (Air Force Rescue Coordination Center) sent the call at close to midnight.

Another datapoint. He took the Colorado Pilots High Altitude Airport ground school (full day) in mid August this year. He was scheduled for the flight (next day?) with an experienced mountain CFI but it's unknown at this time if it happened. We haven't been able to get in touch with the CFI yet.

The CPA course stresses issues with flying out here in the west
1) Weight & balance
2) Density Altitude
3) Do not fly in mountains at night in single engine airplane
4) Do not fly in mountains IFR in single engine airplane.
5) Always file a flight plane, even VFR
6) Always make frequent PIREPs so ATC knows where you are.
7) Mountains and weather.

So, new pilot, high performance airplane, questionable weather, beginner knowledge of mountain flying, unknown practical experience in the mountains.

Radar contact was lost at 8:10. Sunset at Grand Junction was about 7:20. I suspect he could see the mountain obscuration once above the Front Range.

Edit: He probably could see the weather but might not recognize what he was looking at. The mountains can be deceptive and it does take awhile learning to recognize weather conditions when viewed from the air.

 

[murphey]

Radar contact was lost at 8:10. Sunset at Grand Junction was about 7:20. I suspect he could see the mountain obscuration once above the Front Range.

Ah...perhaps he was on flight plan. AFRCC wasn't notified for almost 4 hours.

 

[Clark1961]

Ah...perhaps he was on flight plan. AFRCC wasn't notified for almost 4 hours.

The CAP excerpts you posted indicated flight following and no flight plan.

With flight following the delay is sorta interesting. I once had the airport manager show up as I was leaving the airport shack after calling flight services to report lost com and safe on ground at Dixon. He said the FAA called him. It was an 'interesting' weather day with a snowstorm on one end of the airstrip. I landed on the other end of the 7,000' strip.

I think Denver center does a really good job with flightfollowing for us little guys. They give terrain warnings (as required) even when it's VMC and seemed to be willing to discuss weather at just about any time. If you're near an arrival corridor for DEN then they get a little busy and it's best to stay out of the way of those aluminum tube thingies. I've gotten a colder reception from FTG tower than Denver center when flying VFR in "interesting" weather.

 

[Tantalum]

Can't say I would want to take a single engine plane packed with the family at night and possibly in weather directly west from Denver.

Yeah.. you can tell me about parachutes all day long but the security of #2 can't be replaced (yes I know more MEs crash, poor SE performance, this crash probably wasn't engine failure, etc)

A lot of discussion about ADM, and how it can be taught. But that ultimately, low-time pilots may not be in position to accurately weigh risks.

Unfortunately ADM is hard to teach, most people have to learn it from first hand experience. When I was in training my CFI always had me make the go no go decision.. we ended up at least once needing an IFR clearance to make it back and another time put it down in Jaffrey to wait out weather. I like to think I learned good lessons from that. "So if I wasn't here what would you do?" as the clouds closed around us ... Cry??

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

All I could find was Lester Makepeace, commercial.

Scroll to the right, there is another column of names that never seem to be in view if you are on a mobile device.


JEFFREY ERIC MAKEPEACE

Address is not available
Medical Infomation:
Medical Class: Third Medical Date: 7/2016
BasicMed Course Date: None BasicMed CMEC Date: None
Certificates
PRIVATE PILOT

Certificates Description

Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT
Date of Issue: 3/1/2017

Ratings:
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND


Limits:
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.

 

[murphey]

I just discovered a bug in either the FAA database or Firefox. Had to close the app, nor does the CLEAR option work. Still gets "No records". Obviously what's entered in the fields are retained even when the fields are overwritten. Entered my name, then went back the MAKEPEACE. Got Lester again. Added the first name, got No Records.

Submitted a bug report.

 

[Clark1961]

I just discovered a bug in either the FAA database or Firefox. Had to close the app, nor does the CLEAR option work. Still gets "No records". Obviously what's entered in the fields are retained even when the fields are overwritten. Entered my name, then went back the MAKEPEACE. Got Lester again. Added the first name, got No Records.

Submitted a bug report.

The Illuminati have blocked you. Don't look over your shoulder, they are there.

 

[Zeldman]

As I read this my heart just sinks. Seems like a low time inexperienced pilot flew single engine into mountainous area and the family was killed.

Almost all of my flight experience is in mountainous areas. Only under certain circumstances would I take a single engine over the mountains where part of the flight will be in darkness. I may be totally wrong, but I feel over confidence might have been a major factor in this unfortunate accident. Sort of not knowing what isn't known. There could have been a mountain wave, or a strong down draft or just simple miss planning the descent.

As I have said, I have tons of mountain flying experience, yet I have more to learn.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

General consensus on COPA is that this flight never should have been initiated. Low-time pilot, night, weather, mountains - a deadly combination. Night, weather and mountains would dissuade most of the experience pilots in the discussion.

A lot of discussion about ADM, and how it can be taught. But that ultimately, low-time pilots may not be in position to accurately weigh risks.

ADM was the most important aspect of teaching when I was a full time instructor. I tried to give my students a tool box of knowledge that could be applied to all the things they experienced we couldn't train for before the checkride. Hopefully to give them the ability to have positive outcomes from their decisions as PIC.

Sad day indeed.

 

[murphey]

Get-there-itis, invulnerability (afterall, he just went to ground school and he has a Cirrus)....what else?

 

[exncsurfer]

Looking at the aircraft history on flightaware there were recent flights to Granby and Steamboat. Both flights appear to be more-or-less direct and used the altitude capability of the aircraft.

The last flight looks like he may have been roughly following the Colorado river which equates to lower terrain. I have use that route and it is benign in good vis. The turn towards higher terrain just past EGE is difficult to explain. What was he thinking?

I overlayed the map you posted and the sectional, maybe he was trying to follow a piece of v108?

 

[Clark1961]

I overlayed the map you posted and the sectional, maybe he was trying to follow a piece of v108?
View attachment 56456

Maybe as a low time VFR driver at night he thought the airway meant something. Denver center would/should have given him a terrain warning. Maybe they had given him so many that they stopped registering in his brain. That turn northwest just doesn't appear to be a rational move. His altitude and airspeed wandered a good bit in the last 15 minutes. One could almost make a case that he encountered downdrafts but it's far from a perfect with the data available in flightaware.

The only thing fer sure and certain is that he shouldn't have been there at night, IMC, single engine.

A 2007 SR-22 had dual 430w yes? The terrain warning is automatic unless it is suppressed. The screen would have been showing a lot of yellow and red.

 

[deyoung]

ATC might have given a terrain warning, but in my experience that can be somewhat understated if you aren't used to it---at least a couple of times, all I've gotten was "are you familiar with the terrain along your planned route of flight?" In my case I was and said yes, so I assume I'd have gotten more info if I'd said no.

I don't like to go over the mountains during the day if I can help it, and definitely not at night. I don't fly through the rockies, period, and I prefer to minimize time over the Arizona mountains. In most cases, finding a longer way around doesn't actually add very much time to a trip.

 

[mscard88]

Spatial disorientation?

 

[murphey]

Maybe as a low time VFR driver at night he thought the airway meant something. Denver center would/should have given him a terrain warning. Maybe they had given him so many that they stopped registering in his brain. That turn northwest just doesn't appear to be a rational move. His altitude and airspeed wandered a good bit in the last 15 minutes. One could almost make a case that he encountered downdrafts but it's far from a perfect with the data available in flightaware.

The only thing fer sure and certain is that he shouldn't have been there at night, IMC, single engine.

A 2007 SR-22 had dual 430w yes? The terrain warning is automatic unless it is suppressed. The screen would have been showing a lot of yellow and red.

Not only that, but the first part of the route to Eagle is exactly the Colorado Pilots mountain route, which then turns to Glenwood Springs. We go over that route in the ground school in excruciating detail. Looks like he turned too early, instead of following the road to Glenwood Springs.

 

[Clark1961]

ATC might have given a terrain warning, but in my experience that can be somewhat understated if you aren't used to it---at least a couple of times, all I've gotten was "are you familiar with the terrain along your planned route of flight?" In my case I was and said yes, so I assume I'd have gotten more info if I'd said no.

I don't like to go over the mountains during the day if I can help it, and definitely not at night. I don't fly through the rockies, period, and I prefer to minimize time over the Arizona mountains. In most cases, finding a longer way around doesn't actually add very much time to a trip.

Denver center will give IFR minimum altitudes as unsolicited advise in some areas. It's a little weird the first time ya hear it but they need to know they can talk to you and (mostly) see you on radar. I've gotten that over central And south central Colorado more than up north where they have a little better coverage with radar and WAM.

As a side note I agree that going around (mountains or weather) can be a very good choice. Stay over the valleys and lowlands when ya can.

 

[3393RP]

As I read this my heart just sinks. Seems like a low time inexperienced pilot flew single engine into mountainous area and the family was killed.

.

Sometimes these incidents really tear at your insides.

It makes me think of the PC-12 in Florida that had an autopilot drop offline, the pilot lost control and the entire family was killed. The same results happened with a TBM 700 that went down near Morristown, NJ around Christmas 2011. The TBM pilot was told there was moderate icing in his flight path as he was climbing out of TEB, and he replied...

"We’ll let you know what happens when we get in there and if we could go straight through, it’s no problem for us"

The aircraft kept climbing as the airspeed deteriorated until it stalled and spun in from 18,000' MSL.