So, I got my GI-275s in and my plane FINALLY back.

cowman

cowman

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Cowman
So the good news I got my instruments installed and my plane back but the more I think about the whole thing the more irked I get.

I dropped it off July 5th to have 2 gi-275s installed to replace the AI and HI and remove the vacuum system. After the quote I asked for a USB charge port to be added as well. Their estimate was 1 week. I just picked it today on Aug 24, after being told Fri he previous week it had been test flown and was good to go but they wouldn’t have paperwork ready until this week. K…. Mind you most of the delay was due to them apparently not knowing how to correctly interface the instruments to my old piper(century iii) autopilot. I had to feed them hints on how to do it from POA.

So right off on arrival I note the lack of a USB port but that wasn’t huge and I wasn’t about to delay taking it home over that after so much time. So, I get in the plane and start it up. First thing I see is battery warnings on both new instruments. Then I find an error message popping up on my 530W basically saying it’s not communicating with something it should.

AB83A033-119C-4ABC-9A80-36ED4CFD6591.jpeg

DD80717E-A9BB-4F54-A96D-71E596FF6F91.jpeg

I shut down and go back in, it’s figured out quick-ish. The tech didn’t perform a battery drain test on the instruments back up batteries so the units are throwing the warning. The 530W had a minor setting not right which caused that message. Ok… but hold on there. They test flew this, the messages were obviously there, the tech even admitted to having seen it on the test flight. Now, I’m new to glass stuff but really…. he sees an error come up after an install and just shrugs calls it good and they hand it over to the customer? Am I not right to be irked at that? A minor fix but still it should have been caught before I got there I think.

Then icing on the cake on the way home I note my right fuel gauge is pegged at full… likely something they did shorted a sending unit wire. I’m also going to have to re-perform the battery test on the new HSI myself. I’m thinking I’ll just have my own A&P find the fuel gauge problem. Yeah the original shop should make it right but I really just don’t want to go back again after all this.
E81C9B38-380C-4A0B-9562-559B128DCE9D.jpeg


But at least I have a plane again and it works.
DFE709EA-0CF9-46DB-A30A-E986BBAF572D.jpeg
 
Another reason to pay more to buy a plane with the avionics you want rather than buy a cheap fixer-upper and upgrade it later.

Hopefully you get it all working soon.
 
Not to nitpick, but your ADI, TC, and vacuum attitude all show conflicting information in that last shot.

Should you be upset? Well, you've the right to be but that won't solve anything. If they missed a configuration setting and didn't do the battery check then they didn't do the installation per the manual nor per the STC. I'd ask them how their sign-off was legal as a result.

Did they re-cert your pitot static system? They should've since they had it open.
Did they properly level the airplane to calibrate the AHRS in the 275s?

Not trying to be alarmist, but these are questions I would ask. It can be daunting to be almost done with an install and then run into soccer if these issues while the customer is thinking they'll have the airplane that afternoon, but that's when the boss needs to man-up and call you to say that they're working out a couple things and that they really want it to be right for you so give them another day. Sometimes, it can take a while to get help from Garmin, so they should communicate that to you as well. "I've got a call in to Garmin about these items and I'm awaiting their reply. Just wanted you to be aware that we're working the problem with the tech team in Kansas to have this thing ready to give you all the functionality you should expect. I'm sorry for the last-minute delay, but these things are awesome and I'm excited for you to come play with them!"

That's what I would've done anyway...
 
Yeah. Welcome to getting avionics work. I though I was saving money taking my plane to KY to get my G5 put in, but recently discovered they screwed it up and my local shop spent half a day figuring it out. Scary part was they had set up the G5 HSI, which was not connected to the static system, as the encoder for the transponder. By the time you add travel expense I would've been better off just doing it locally. Just because it's a Garmin authorized shop doesn't mean they know what they're doing.

I forget how many times @NealRomeoGolf had to take his back to Peoria before they got him straightened out. Do you mind sharing where you took it?
 
Jim K said:
Yeah. Welcome to getting avionics work. I though I was saving money taking my plane to KY to get my G5 put in, but recently discovered they screwed it up and my local shop spent half a day figuring it out. Scary part was they had set up the G5 HSI, which was not connected to the static system, as the encoder for the transponder. By the time you add travel expense I would've been better off just doing it locally. Just because it's a Garmin authorized shop doesn't mean they know what they're doing.

I forget how many times @NealRomeoGolf had to take his back to Peoria before they got him straightened out. Do you mind sharing where you took it?
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Shoot, I'm the one who taught the shop how to straighten it out. Sigh.
 
Der Fliegermeister said:
Not to nitpick, but your ADI, TC, and vacuum attitude all show conflicting information in that last shot.
Click to expand...

You guys are looking at an INOP electric gyro in the lower left corner, it was supposed to have been removed and the hole used for the USB charge ports. There is no vacuum system anymore. And yeah the turn coordinator is a bit wonky and I’ll probably have it swapped out on the next annual.

The AI information is accurate as far as I can tell.
 
cowman said:
Then icing on the cake on the way home I note my right fuel gauge is pegged at full…
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I just have to ask - what is the deal with your fuel gauges? I've never seen any that look like that. Old and faded and discolored, sure. But what's going on with yours?
 
RussR said:
I just have to ask - what is the deal with your fuel gauges? I've never seen any that look like that. Old and faded and discolored, sure. But what's going on with yours?
Click to expand...

no idea, it was like that when I got it. Really I manage my fuel by time/burn and don’t trust any reading on the gauge anyway but it’s good to have a general indication.

Also I have an edm-800 with a flow meter/totalizer.
 
cowman said:
You guys are looking at an INOP electric gyro in the lower left corner, it was supposed to have been removed and the hole used for the USB charge ports. There is no vacuum system anymore. And yeah the turn coordinator is a bit wonky and I’ll probably have it swapped out on the next annual.

The AI information is accurate as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't it have a placard then? 91.213
 
You all make me more and more thankful with the AP/IA that I have.
 
Der Fliegermeister said:
Shouldn't it have a placard then? 91.213
Click to expand...

I’ve been trying to address that by having it removed but nobody follows directions. If I ever remember to grab a label printer before I head out it will be, it’s just not a huge priority when I’m the only one flying it and am well aware not to look at it.
 
Glad you finally got the plane back. I still haven't had a chance to fly with those yet, but I was really impressed when I got to play with them on the ground in one of the planes at my last flight school.
 
cowman said:
I’ve been trying to address that by having it removed but nobody follows directions. If I ever remember to grab a label printer before I head out it will be, it’s just not a huge priority when I’m the only one flying it and am well aware not to look at it.
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Sharpie on the glass with “INOP”.
 
Yeah, I’d be pretty frustrated too. On the plus side, I love my GI275, so I bet once the pain of this is behind you you’ll be happy with the move.

But yeah... errors and battery warnings on pickup? I’d be pretty steamed.
 
Yeah I wasn't happy with my avionics shop last time. Their work is second to none, but their ability to schedule and plan is garbage. Ended up being down for 2.5 months for a "3 week install" because they didn't plan ahead and get stuff ordered on time. Then their on-field A&P's really screwed up my mags when pulling my vacuum pump and they tried to blame me for it, so that didn't fly. I tried scheduling with another avionics shop a state away and, well their customer service left a lot to be desired and it sounded like they didn't want my money so off to another place. Now for my next upgrades I'm flying fairly far away to get me somewhere that had decent scheduling, customer service and a good reputation for high quality work.

Avionics shops seem uniquely positioned to have terrible customer service, scheduling, and work and still have a thriving business.
 
Poorly done work, definitely. And, I would not be pleased either. Others are asking what shop was used and I agree, providing a shop name with factual information is most helpful, so others won’t have to deal with it.

Do you fly this plane IFR?
 
Everything else has been covered I think, but my comment is that those two shiny new gauges look great. However it reminds me of when my wife replace the blinds. They new ones looked really good, but after they were installed she said "They make the carpet and wall paint look bad", so we put in new wood flooring and painted the walls. Then she mentioned the furniture. :(
 
Sorry about the install pains, but you now have a great panel. I've read where dual G275's are actually just as / almost as capable as a G3 for a lot less. I kind of like the "old school" 6 pack look as well.

Check me out on this - you don't need a back up AHRS, because you have dual units and you can switch functions as needed.

Crazy thought - given the time it took, would it have been an option to do a self install with supervision from an AP / sign off from an AP?

In addition to the name of the shop to avoid, would you also share what the costs were?
 
Ours is still not quite right after four re-visits to the shop. Almost there now...
 
cowman said:
So the good news I got my instruments installed and my plane back but the more I think about the whole thing the more irked I get.

I dropped it off July 5th to have 2 gi-275s installed to replace the AI and HI and remove the vacuum system. After the quote I asked for a USB charge port to be added as well. Their estimate was 1 week. I just picked it today on Aug 24, after being told Fri he previous week it had been test flown and was good to go but they wouldn’t have paperwork ready until this week. K…. Mind you most of the delay was due to them apparently not knowing how to correctly interface the instruments to my old piper(century iii) autopilot. I had to feed them hints on how to do it from POA.

So right off on arrival I note the lack of a USB port but that wasn’t huge and I wasn’t about to delay taking it home over that after so much time. So, I get in the plane and start it up. First thing I see is battery warnings on both new instruments. Then I find an error message popping up on my 530W basically saying it’s not communicating with something it should.

View attachment 99447

View attachment 99446

I shut down and go back in, it’s figured out quick-ish. The tech didn’t perform a battery drain test on the instruments back up batteries so the units are throwing the warning. The 530W had a minor setting not right which caused that message. Ok… but hold on there. They test flew this, the messages were obviously there, the tech even admitted to having seen it on the test flight. Now, I’m new to glass stuff but really…. he sees an error come up after an install and just shrugs calls it good and they hand it over to the customer? Am I not right to be irked at that? A minor fix but still it should have been caught before I got there I think.

Then icing on the cake on the way home I note my right fuel gauge is pegged at full… likely something they did shorted a sending unit wire. I’m also going to have to re-perform the battery test on the new HSI myself. I’m thinking I’ll just have my own A&P find the fuel gauge problem. Yeah the original shop should make it right but I really just don’t want to go back again after all this.
View attachment 99448


But at least I have a plane again and it works.
View attachment 99445
Click to expand...

I would be very unhappy also.
Hopefully when it is all said and done you will be happy with your new glass.

My shop does not fly the plane without me flying it.

I have had a complete new panel installed and it only took 9 work days and everything worked right the first time.

My shop is local, so I stopped over there 3-4 times at the end of the day to checkout the progress and to take pictures. IMO they earned the big bucks they charge.

Good luck with it.

My buddy had a 175 and a 275 installed in his Cherokee by the same shop I use. He is a Captain for major airline and is gone a lot. He asked if he could take his plane over there a couple weeks early and they said yes. They kept it in a hangar for him and finished it a week early also. It works like it should have not been back since. I get to fly it sometimes.
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Gary / what shop did you use ?
 
WDD said:
Gary / what shop did you use ?
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Cincinnati’s Avionics, part of Sportys at I69. Scott and Chuck have treated me good. Ryan has done all the work on my plane, great guy. Lucky to have them so close.
 
cowman said:
They test flew this, the messages were obviously there, the tech even admitted to having seen it on the test flight. Now, I’m new to glass stuff but really…. he sees an error come up after an install and just shrugs calls it good and they hand it over to the customer? Am I not right to be irked at that?
Click to expand...
You are 100% right to be irked. Customer service is dead. Cool panel though, I LOVE the GI-275. It fits so well in the original hole and looks "factory" - I always thought the big boxy G5 sticky up out of the panel looked super aftermarket and "cheap"

On the topic of crappy customer service:
I picked up my car from Toyota yesterday (standard service for oil, yes I could to it myself but the FJ uses a paper cartridge filter that's too much hassle for me to deal with) and I get back in the car and the maintenance light is not reset and the bumper and hood are covered in greasy handprints. My car's out of production and unless it's coming back from a wheeling trip I keep it *very* clean.. you'd think it's common courtesy to wipe the grease stains off and reset the light.. and yes, I can reset the light myself doing the odometer gymnastics but it's just disappointing the sheer lack of effort

People do the utmost bare minimum. It's not just a Toyota thing, the BMW service guys used to leave grease hand prints all over the interior of the car too.. that paper foot well thing they put down is just for show. Time to go back to local mechanics, have only had positive experiences there
 
JOhnH said:
Everything else has been covered I think, but my comment is that those two shiny new gauges look great. However it reminds me of when my wife replace the blinds. They new ones looked really good, but after they were installed she said "They make the carpet and wall paint look bad", so we put in new wood flooring and painted the walls. Then she mentioned the furniture. :(
Click to expand...

It's called "Shipwright's Disease". A quick search online will explain all...:)
 
cowman said:
So the good news I got my instruments installed and my plane back but the more I think about the whole thing the more irked I get.

I dropped it off July 5th to have 2 gi-275s installed to replace the AI and HI and remove the vacuum system. After the quote I asked for a USB charge port to be added as well. Their estimate was 1 week. I just picked it today on Aug 24, after being told Fri he previous week it had been test flown and was good to go but they wouldn’t have paperwork ready until this week. K…. Mind you most of the delay was due to them apparently not knowing how to correctly interface the instruments to my old piper(century iii) autopilot. I had to feed them hints on how to do it from POA.

So right off on arrival I note the lack of a USB port but that wasn’t huge and I wasn’t about to delay taking it home over that after so much time. So, I get in the plane and start it up. First thing I see is battery warnings on both new instruments. Then I find an error message popping up on my 530W basically saying it’s not communicating with something it should.

View attachment 99447

View attachment 99446

I shut down and go back in, it’s figured out quick-ish. The tech didn’t perform a battery drain test on the instruments back up batteries so the units are throwing the warning. The 530W had a minor setting not right which caused that message. Ok… but hold on there. They test flew this, the messages were obviously there, the tech even admitted to having seen it on the test flight. Now, I’m new to glass stuff but really…. he sees an error come up after an install and just shrugs calls it good and they hand it over to the customer? Am I not right to be irked at that? A minor fix but still it should have been caught before I got there I think.

Then icing on the cake on the way home I note my right fuel gauge is pegged at full… likely something they did shorted a sending unit wire. I’m also going to have to re-perform the battery test on the new HSI myself. I’m thinking I’ll just have my own A&P find the fuel gauge problem. Yeah the original shop should make it right but I really just don’t want to go back again after all this.
View attachment 99448

But at least I have a plane again and it works.
View attachment 99445
Click to expand...
The high-resolution, bright displays for the GI-275s in your photos are stunning. What a difference from the G5!
 
Those new 275’s look very good in your plane, nice job on the upgrade. I plan on adding 2 G5’s but yours look so much clearer at least in the pictures. Hate to hear about the bad customer service. Seems to be somewhat common from the other reports on the forum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
zayerpaul said:
Those new 275’s look very good in your plane, nice job on the upgrade. I plan on adding 2 G5’s but yours look so much clearer at least in the pictures. Hate to hear about the bad customer service. Seems to be somewhat common from the other reports on the forum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I do understand the complaints about how the G5 looks so "after market" what with the square facing mounted on top of the panel, but I don't understand the complaints about the clarity. My G5 is very bright and readable. I just with is was flush mounted.
 
Tantalum said:
It fits so well in the original hole and looks "factory" - I always thought the big boxy G5 sticky up out of the panel looked super aftermarket and "cheap"
Click to expand...

JOhnH said:
I do understand the complaints about how the G5 looks so "after market" what with the square facing mounted on top of the panel,
Click to expand...

I guess I don't understand the aesthetic argument here - Most (all?) glass panels stick out from the panel.

- Aspen
- Garmin G500
- Garmin G1000
- Dynon
- etc.

To me the issue has more to do with the OEM plastic overlays on the panel that you have to cut to install the G5s (or Aspen, etc.). Some shops do a much better job with that than others. But replace it with a flat panel overlay and the G5s do look much nicer.
 
RussR said:
I guess I don't understand the aesthetic argument here - Most (all?) glass panels stick out from the panel.
Click to expand...
Maybe its because I only have one G5 and it is the only one that sticks out from the panel. It just looks awkward to me.
 
RussR said:
I guess I don't understand the aesthetic argument here - Most (all?) glass panels stick out from the panel.

- Aspen
- Garmin G500
- Garmin G1000
- Dynon
- etc.

To me the issue has more to do with the OEM plastic overlays on the panel that you have to cut to install the G5s (or Aspen, etc.). Some shops do a much better job with that than others. But replace it with a flat panel overlay and the G5s do look much nicer.
Click to expand...
Frankly I hate the look of all of them. Glass is nice but it makes the panel look hodgepodge and aftermarket..

Some small outfit I've never heard of had a booth at Oshkosh where they cut panels to make it look like the G5 and those components fit flush.. it is not covering access to them but has a 'double panel' so to speak
 
Tantalum said:
Some small outfit I've never heard of had a booth at Oshkosh where they cut panels to make it look like the G5 and those components fit flush.. it is not covering access to them but has a 'double panel' so to speak
Click to expand...
How do they deal with the fact that a G5 AI sticks out while an inch or so on either side of it the ASI and altimeter are recessed?
 
asicer said:
How do they deal with the fact that a G5 AI sticks out while an inch or so on either side of it the ASI and altimeter are recessed?
Click to expand...

I don’t know the answer to that question, but I do know that a G5 flush mount kit is available and the plane I flew for most of the last couple of years had it’s G5s flush mounted. World of difference when that is done.
 
TCABM said:
the plane I flew for most of the last couple of years had it’s G5s flush mounted. World of difference when that is done.
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I guess I'm the outlier here. To me, most panels are so business-like that the "form follows function" rule takes effect.
 
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