SDF UPS down

J

JVerb

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Nov 8, 2020
Messages
216
Display Name
What's in a name anyways?
This looks bad.1000006077.jpg
 
Probably this?
 

Attachments

  • G48ei-5bQAQ0uyw.jpeg
    G48ei-5bQAQ0uyw.jpeg
    295.5 KB · Views: 122
Ah man. :(
 
There is a video on Facebook .. looks like engine on fire during take off and crashed?
 
A big fireball at one point, bigger than the plane.
 
That’s one helluva engine fire. Engine grenaded, cowl couldn’t contain blast, loss of flight controls? I mean, engine loss on departure after V1 procedures should be pretty well ingrained at this point.
 
flyersfan31 said:
That’s one helluva engine fire. Engine grenaded, cowl couldn’t contain blast, loss of flight controls? I mean, engine loss on departure after V1 procedures should be pretty well ingrained at this point.
Click to expand...
I saw one pic from overhead that showed engine and/or cowl parts next to the runway, so quite possibly catastrophic failure vs “just” a fire.
 
It was loaded with enough fuel for a direct flight to Hawaii.

Must have had the engine issue past V1, and maybe too heavy to climb on only 2 engines? Not a multi guy, and of course i know nothing about the MD11.

So sad.
 
Fire appears to be left engine.....but there is at least half an engine sitting next to the right side of the runway right now...

Some speculation that the left engine FOD'd out NR2. Airplane full of gas enroute to HNL.

Absolutely horrible.
 
With that fireball at the wing it was going to quickly run out of lift...
 
Big airplane carrying a lot of fuel basically running off the end of the runway at 200 mph is a very bad thing.
 
If one engine threw pieces to take out number two… ya… it’s gotta be able to climb one engine out, not two.

This is the ONE scenario, engine craps at V1, that airline pilots live and breathe. Frequently briefed “we’ll only abort after v1 if the airplane just won’t fly”. It’s not practiced because there is no good scenario. Guys brief it just to say if it won’t fly I may close the throttles to mitigate the impending and almost certainly catastrophic crash.

This appears to be one of those no way out situations. Dear God awful….

Finding out WHAT happened to that engine is gonna be high priority. Not many Mighty Dog operators out there, not gonna be a huge glitch.

Possibly kind of a Concorde mishap thing.
 
Man… the video I just saw seems to indicate it got kinda sorta airborne.

That kind of failure, honestly probably not weirdly catastrophic from the cockpit, none of the fire and hell visible from there… all eyes are on rotating to the correct attitude. A second engine failure might not even be recognizable.

Similar to a wind shear situation, at some point you just gotta pull, with everything you got. There’s nothing else you can do. Doesn’t look like an over rotate and simple Vmc… just like an airplane without enough thrust.

Even with a reduced thrust takeoff you shouldn’t have to firewall the engines… but if they lost two, can’t see that mattering anyway unless the subsequent engine failure wasn’t a total loss of power and the little bit more you’d get out of the one remaining engine would have made the difference.

I think worst case the thing is certified to clear the end of the runway by a scant 35 feet or something.

We have no idea yet if he lost a second engine, it’s just possible and plausible.
 
Tools said:
I think worst case the thing is certified to clear the end of the runway by a scant 35 feet or something.
Click to expand...
Put another way, the 35 feet at the end of takeoff field length is the ONLY certification case for continued takeoff after a malfunction, and that malfunction is a simple single engine failure…and it sounds like this was a worse-than-certification case. As you said, probably a no way out situation.
 
There’s some visual evidence that points to the potential of compressor stalls on engine 2 right around rotation. Whether the tail engine was affected by the loss of the left engine and any hot gasses and debris coming from that area will be an obvious focus of the investigation.
 
Last edited:
Rarefied said:
If I’m seeing that right, it looks like the big fireball starts before the wing touches anything, or just barely. It’s right after that fireball that the plane starts to turn in from what I can tell.

Awful tragedy. Thoughts and prayers with the families.
Click to expand...
It looks like it likely lost the left wing in the supply chain building it struck. That slice through the building seems like it's consistent with that. Then it rolled from there with all the extra lift of right wing
 
As someone that is an infant in 121 flying, I wonder when they were first alerted to the engine fire. The smoke appears to start "way back when"

1762318147728.png

We brief that below X speed, we will reject for any abnormalities. Below V1 we will reject for engine failure or fire.
One time, I had a flight where we were in the "Any abnormalities" phase and had an issue and my captain said "continue".
He had to make a split second decision.

I take these briefings very seriously because there are families behind us and we have families.
There is this voice in the back of my head that sometimes wonders if we are just reciting a script.

That engine was on fire long before the video starts. I wonder if they were alerted before V1.
Split second decisions are easy to Monday morning quarterback but I also wonder if they had rejected when they were alerted of the engine fire maybe a different outcome.
I guess only the CVR and FDR will tell. This is sad.
 
ughh, just devastating and incredibly tragic. For the flight crew, those on the ground affected, maintenance personnel, first responders and all their families/loved ones. Harsh reality and it’s incredible aviation is as safe as it is and accidents/failures like this aren’t common place with the number of cumulative miles flown but doesn’t make situations like this any easier. As always, hope we learn from it and it safety and processes are improved in some way from this
 
MauleSkinner said:
An engine fire by itself shouldn’t have that result.
Click to expand...
This was more than an engine fire... There's a whole engine sitting next to the runway, and elsewhere I saw what looked like the front of a nacelle and I could've sworn there was a fan in it.

574887898_10227445030024625_7453271669573181548_n.jpg

Tools said:
If one engine threw pieces to take out number two… ya… it’s gotta be able to climb one engine out, not two.
Click to expand...
The fire, the engine next to the runway (presumably #1), plus the apparent compressor stalls in #2... That plane was not going to climb, period. My only thought was "I wonder how fast an MD-11 can dump fuel" but I'm sure it wouldn't have made a difference.

There is another video posted in the comments here where you can see it tried to fly. Here's the building across the street from the airport, clearly it made contact there. You can see the approach lights in this picture:

576842709_1419336819552331_2359312168233347208_n.jpg

Tools said:
This is the ONE scenario, engine craps at V1, that airline pilots live and breathe. Frequently briefed “we’ll only abort after v1 if the airplane just won’t fly”. It’s not practiced because there is no good scenario. Guys brief it just to say if it won’t fly I may close the throttles to mitigate the impending and almost certainly catastrophic crash.
Click to expand...
It's not always the end if there's a post-V1 abort - See Ameristar 9363.

SixPapaCharlie said:
As someone that is an infant in 121 flying, I wonder when they were first alerted to the engine fire. The smoke appears to start "way back when"

View attachment 146827
Click to expand...
It'll be interesting to see what they knew when for sure.

SixPapaCharlie said:
One time, I had a flight where we were in the "Any abnormalities" phase and had an issue and my captain said "continue".
He had to make a split second decision.
Click to expand...
I hope you got a good thorough debrief on that one! :o
 
Last edited:
Because it was a part of my life until last year, I looked up the engines. It has the GE CF6-80C2D1F, which, while a legacy design, are constantly updated. And very reliable.
There are so many possibilities, from damaged engine mounts to hitting something during takeoff to a part just letting go, causing an uncontained event.
I will watch this one closely. (I thought yesterday's aviation news would be about the bomb threat at DCA that cancelled my flight for medical treatment at the NIH. But that was nothing, and this is something.)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
There is another video posted in the comments here where you can see it tried to fly. Here's the building across the street from the airport, clearly it made contact there. You can see the approach lights in this picture:
Click to expand...
At this time, there are 825 comments to that post. No clue what video you're referring to.
 
I’m curious about what looks like an issue with number 2. Many seem to think that it’s debris from the number 1 engine causing a compressor stall but I’m not surf the physics support debris from engine 1 already moving 100mph and spinning a few thousand RPM making it from one wing, across the fuselage and all the way over to the other wing and then moves forward somehow to go down the inlet. It may be a compressor stall but I don’t think it’s from the first engine. Could there have been a vehicle or something on the runway that damaged both engines?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top