Schools are closed. SMH

jsstevens said:
Interesting site. (Yes, I'm a nerd.) Thanks. So apparently it is liquified since it reduces volume 600 times.
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Ummm, no it is not liquid, it is gas. The compressors on the pipelines would have a real bad time if it was liquid. Now you've learned something.
 
Clark1961 said:
Ummm, no it is not liquid, it is gas. The compressors on the pipelines would have a real bad time if it was liquid. Now you've learned something.
Click to expand...

Is the actual gas different from LP? I always thought it was the same gas.
 
jsstevens said:
Is the actual gas different from LP? I always thought it was the same gas.
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Natural gas is mostly methane. LP is mostly propane and butane which are relatively easy to liquify.

If you want to get into the chemistry of it, methane is CH4, ethane is C2H6, Propane is C3H8, and butane is C4H10 or more simply noted as C, C2, C3, and C4 since Hydrogen follows as 2N+2 where N is the number of carbon atoms in the molecule. Each carbon-carbon bond is double while the carbon-hydrogen bonds are single (of course) which results in saturating each carbon atom. These hydrocarbon molecules are called Alkanes...

are you paying attention, there will be a quiz...

(yes, I used to teach this stuff)

on a slightly more practical note, if a burner fuel is changed from natural gas to LP (or vice-versa) the jet size has to be changed.
 
Trying to bring the thread back to topic....

Denton has white stuff on the ground again.... but this time it is fluffy... about an inch an hour, road melt is freezing, schools closing at 11:30am
 
Clark1961 said:
Natural gas is mostly methane. LP is mostly propane and butane which are relatively easy to liquify.

If you want to get into the chemistry of it, methane is CH4, ethane is C2H6, Propane is C3H8, and butane is C4H10 or more simply noted as C, C2, C3, and C4 since Hydrogen follows as 2N+2 where N is the number of carbon atoms in the molecule. Each carbon-carbon bond is double while the carbon-hydrogen bonds are single (of course) which results in saturating each carbon atom. These hydrocarbon molecules are called Alkanes...

are you paying attention, there will be a quiz...

(yes, I used to teach this stuff)

on a slightly more practical note, if a burner fuel is changed from natural gas to LP (or vice-versa) the jet size has to be changed.
Click to expand...

Potentially burner material as well. Propane burned byproduct is corrosive and the burner sets are made of stainless steel. Just changing the jet and switching to propane on most common appliances built for NG will leave you with a dangerous condition burner in surprisingly short amount of time. Switching propane appliances to NG however poses no such issue and can be done strictly with the jet.
 
Go to maps.google.com, pick DFW, and select 'traffic'. I've never seen anything like it before. Dozens of reported accidents, hundreds more not reported.
 
Clark1961 said:
Natural gas is mostly methane. LP is mostly propane and butane which are relatively easy to liquify.

If you want to get into the chemistry of it, methane is CH4, ethane is C2H6, Propane is C3H8, and butane is C4H10 or more simply noted as C, C2, C3, and C4 since Hydrogen follows as 2N+2 where N is the number of carbon atoms in the molecule. Each carbon-carbon bond is double while the carbon-hydrogen bonds are single (of course) which results in saturating each carbon atom. These hydrocarbon molecules are called Alkanes...

are you paying attention, there will be a quiz...

(yes, I used to teach this stuff)

on a slightly more practical note, if a burner fuel is changed from natural gas to LP (or vice-versa) the jet size has to be changed.
Click to expand...

I did know about the jet changes for switching. So apparently C3H8 and C4H10 both liquefy at relatively low pressure, while CH4 does not. Hmm.

Anyway, thanks for the education.

John
 
Henning said:
Potentially burner material as well. Propane burned byproduct is corrosive and the burner sets are made of stainless steel. Just changing the jet and switching to propane on most common appliances built for NG will leave you with a dangerous condition burner in surprisingly short amount of time. Switching propane appliances to NG however poses no such issue and can be done strictly with the jet.
Click to expand...

interesting theory but the combustion products of natural gas and propane are the same, principally carbon dioxide, water vapor, and carbon monoxide. There are negligible amounts of other oxides from contaminants which may be present in either natural gas or propane. Notably most European natural gas has a large percentage of contaminants because the one field that originally supplied the markets there was quite contaminated and the supplier (Shell) didn't bother to treat the gas.
 
Clark1961 said:
interesting theory but the combustion products of natural gas and propane are the same, principally carbon dioxide, water vapor, and carbon monoxide. There are negligible amounts of other oxides from contaminants which may be present in either natural gas or propane. Notably most European natural gas has a large percentage of contaminants because the one field that originally supplied the markets there was quite contaminated and the supplier (Shell) didn't bother to treat the gas.
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Ok.. I got questions....

Ngas is deep in the ground.... During drilling and once they punch into the ngas dome, why doesn't the pressure blow the drill bit and drive rods back out of the hole ??? What kind of pressure is involved down in the dome ?

Once the gas gets up to the surface they harvest it, put it in a pipeline. Does it go straight to market ? or is it filtered ? How do they extract bad stuff like Hydrogen Sulfide out of the gas and leave all the good stuff? Where does the Hyd Suf go ? Burned off in a flare ? stored in a tank ? dumped back into the atmosphere?

I did hear through the grapevine that the ngas well about 1 mile from my ranch / airport in Merna / Pinedale Wy which supplied all the gas to Jackson Hole is 23,000 feet deep.... True ? Seems damn deep to me ...:confused::confused:..

Someone needs to make a nat gas for dummies video and put it on Utube...

TIA for the answers..
 
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N801BH said:
Ok.. I got questions....

Ngas is deep in the ground.... During drilling and once they punch into the ngas dome, why doesn't the pressure blow the drill bit and drive rods back out of the hole ??? What kind of pressure is involved down in the dome ?

Once the gas gets up to the surface they harvest it, put it in a pipeline. Does it go straight to market ? or is it filtered ? How do they extract bad stuff like Hydrogen Sulfide out of the gas and leave all the good stuff? Where does the Hyd Suf go ? Burned off in a flare ? stored in a tank ? dumped back into the atmosphere?

I did hear through the grapevine that the ngas well about 1 mile from my ranch / airport in Merna / Pinedale Wy which supplied all the gas to Jackson Hole is 23,000 feet deep.... True ? Seems damn deep to me ...:confused::confused:..

Someone needs to make a nat gas for dummies video and put it on Utube...

TIA for the answers..
Click to expand...

From post #119. More than you ever wanted to know. But well done.

http://naturalgas.org/naturalgas/

John
 
N801BH said:
Ok.. I got questions....

Ngas is deep in the ground.... During drilling and once they punch into the ngas dome, why doesn't the pressure blow the drill bit and drive rods back out of the hole ??? What kind of pressure is involved down in the dome ?

Once the gas gets up to the surface they harvest it, put it in a pipeline. Does it go straight to market ? or is it filtered ? How do they extract bad stuff like Hydrogen Sulfide out of the gas and leave all the good stuff? Where does the Hyd Suf go ? Burned off in a flare ? stored in a tank ? dumped back into the atmosphere?

I did hear through the grapevine that the ngas well about 1 mile from my ranch / airport in Merna / Pinedale Wy which supplied all the gas to Jackson Hole is 23,000 feet deep.... True ? Seems damn deep to me ...:confused::confused:..

Someone needs to make a nat gas for dummies video and put it on Utube...

TIA for the answers..
Click to expand...

So many questions, so few sheep...

first question, can everything get blown out of the hole?
Answer: it is possible and it has happened but it is rare - Early drilling in Iran had some spectacular examples of blowing pipe out of the hole. Because of it's low density, natural gas lends itself to the creation of high pressures in reservoirs with large (1,000's of feet) structural relief.

Typically the pressure is about equal to hydrostatic pressure at that depth or 0.433 psi/ft. About the most you'll ever see is about 0.8 psi/ft and that is very rare. Rock starts breaking around 1 psi/ft...

Natural gas can go straight to market if it meets BTU content specs. Natural gas is actually sold on a BTU (heat content) basis. Typically most of the hydrocarbons heavier than methane are stripped out along with contaminants which exceed pipeline or customer specs. The heavier hydrocarbons are sold in specialized markets which include ethane feed for plastics and LPG or propane. The actual hydrocarbon constituents in natural gas varies considerably both by location and over time.

Typical natural gas contaminants are the acid gases carbon dioxide and hydrogen sulfide and the inert gas nitrogen. the acid gases can be removed using solvents which can be glycols. Once the acid gases are adsorbed from the natural gas stream they are boiled off and released or treated depending on plant design. There are other processes out there but I'm not a ChemE so I don't have a clue about things like mole sieves or cryo. I do know that at Lost Cabin (east and north of Riverton) the use a solvent system and the H2S is broken and the sulfur is produced as a solid. South of you in the Big Piney area Exxon is dumping carbon dioxide straight to atmosphere. The project has been there for decades so it's grandfathered in on all the regs. Newcomers in the area are re-injecting or selling to injection/EOR projects.

Give me the section, township, and range of your range and I'll tell you about any nearby wells. The only producing 20,000+ footers I know about off the top of my head are at Lost Cabin but there may be some in the overthrust. Geologically it could be possible that something could be producing that deep near Pinedale but I haven't been that deep in that basin.
 
Clark1961 said:
........
Give me the section, township, and range of your range and I'll tell you about any nearby wells. The only producing 20,000+ footers I know about off the top of my head are at Lost Cabin but there may be some in the overthrust. Geologically it could be possible that something could be producing that deep near Pinedale but I haven't been that deep in that basin.
Click to expand...


I got this off the Sublette county GIS site... I might be able to find the section, township and range info too.


-110' 13'19.2" 43' 02' 00.7"
-110.222' 43.0335'

Edit..... Found it..

T35N , R 112W, SEC 4....
 
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Keep in mind that a lot of time they are talking overall well length at 24K feet, but it may only go down 8-10K before they make the turn for horizontal fracturing jobs, then another 10-15K feet of horizontal. They aren't generally drilling straight down vertically 24K feet in most instances.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Keep in mind that a lot of time they are talking overall well length at 24K feet, but it may only go down 8-10K before they make the turn for horizontal fracturing jobs, then another 10-15K feet of horizontal. They aren't generally drilling straight down vertically 24K feet in most instances.
Click to expand...

K. Thanks..
 
SoonerAviator said:
Keep in mind that a lot of time they are talking overall well length at 24K feet, but it may only go down 8-10K before they make the turn for horizontal fracturing jobs, then another 10-15K feet of horizontal. They aren't generally drilling straight down vertically 24K feet in most instances.
Click to expand...

I've wondered about that turn to horizontal - what's the radius?
 
docmirror said:
Go to maps.google.com, pick DFW, and select 'traffic'. I've never seen anything like it before. Dozens of reported accidents, hundreds more not reported.
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Yeah, we haven't moved in almost an hour. We are stuck on a bridge going nowhere. So far the only thing we have come up with to help us pass the time is leaving the sunroof open so it will snow inside the car.

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SixPapaCharlie said:
Yeah, we haven't moved in almost an hour. We are stuck on a bridge going nowhere. So far the only thing we have come up with to help us pass the time is leaving the sunroof open so it will snow inside the car.

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Ya should have stayed home and played " hide the sausage":D..;)
 
If anyone needs an update on what the weather or traffic is like in this exact spot here I'm pretty sure I will be here all day.

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Matthew said:
I've wondered about that turn to horizontal - what's the radius?
Click to expand...

Depends on the well design but usually several hundred to a thousand feet. Ya can't have a sharp bend and expect to reach out 10,000 feet which is about as far as anybody goes.
 
denverpilot said:
Mods: thread about gas should be merged with the beans or no beans thread. :) :) :)
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Now we have beans and sausage mentioned in one thread, so the question is are the beans over the sausage? Or was that the frank?
 
My daughter it's in back. School closed so I got get and grabbed groceries. Now we wait
 
N801BH said:
I got this off the Sublette county GIS site... I might be able to find the section, township and range info too.


-110' 13'19.2" 43' 02' 00.7"
-110.222' 43.0335'

Edit..... Found it..

T35N , R 112W, SEC 4....
Click to expand...

The only producing well in that section was drilled in 2002 to a total depth of 13,892 feet. It hasn't made enough gas to supply the hole.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My daughter it's in back. School closed so I got get and grabbed groceries. Now we wait
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I'll bet you're wishing they'd announced the closure last night in anticipation, huh? :ihih:

Getting out of downtown was bad because everyone was leaving at once and people kept blocking the intersections. But the neighborhoods were OK for driving very slow.
 
Home now.
I should have just kept the kids home.

When I dropped them off I asked their teachers "What time is the school closing today?" I knew this was going to happen.

8 miles took me ~3 hours (minus a 20-ish minute stop for groceries)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Home now.
I should have just kept the kids home.

When I dropped them off I asked their teachers "What time is the school closing today?" I knew this was going to happen.

8 miles took me ~3 hours (minus a 20-ish minute stop for groceries)
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You and me both...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My wife works for a small private Christian school here in town my daughter is a student there. About half the kids are boarding students. Yesterday they canceled all after school activities (except boys basketball practice due to sectionals this week) and closed school today because so many of the kids are sick. There are less than 200 kids and 18 kids were out on Wednesday.

I am home today since they brought it home.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Home now.
I should have just kept the kids home.

When I dropped them off I asked their teachers "What time is the school closing today?" I knew this was going to happen.

8 miles took me ~3 hours (minus a 20-ish minute stop for groceries)
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Holy moly. I heard there were big accidents up north with road closures. Did you get trapped by that?
 
I was screwed by signal construction. No traffic issues. However, clearly we have no business being out in this stuff

10371669_10153174187476388_8196728019466506585_n.jpg



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SixPapaCharlie said:
Home now.
I should have just kept the kids home.

When I dropped them off I asked their teachers "What time is the school closing today?" I knew this was going to happen.

8 miles took me ~3 hours (minus a 20-ish minute stop for groceries)
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good excuse to get a helo rating.

Rich
 
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