Russian Airbus down

Anthony said:
I don't think it will be a remote war. I think it will be covert ops to take out people they target. They often send the body parts back one at a time to the next in line.
Click to expand...

As it should be...:yesnod:
 
genna said:
Not very likely. Now, they will definitely care less about civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean that they can inflict any real defeat to an entrenched force so far away.

They are not going to be sending invasion army. And more bombing is not really going to do much.
Click to expand...

From the looks of it, Putin is sending ground forces, and China may as well.
 
Anthony said:
Unlike the U.S. Russia will actually do something that will hurt ISIS, and not in a PC way.
Click to expand...

Maybe like in Afghanistan? They got their azz handed to them. On top of that their economy is in the pits. Ours is doing quite well.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Maybe like in Afghanistan? They got their azz handed to them. On top of that their economy is in the pits. Ours is doing quite well.
Click to expand...

That depends...does the US plan on providing military aide to ISIS during a conflict with Russia?
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Maybe like in Afghanistan? They got their azz handed to them. On top of that their economy is in the pits. Ours is doing quite well.
Click to expand...

It is?:confused: Putin has China covering his back this time and Iran. Russia also just picked up China's oil contracts they cut from Saudi Arabia. Control of KSA oilfields and getting them off petrodollars is the end game in this, and that is the last factor supporting faith in the US Dollar. The only reason our economy looks good is because KSA is pumping full throttle, and in order to buy that oil, you first have to buy US Dollars from the Federal Reserve. That makes it appear that the economy is growing, but in reality the only thing that is growing is the national debt, because we owe the origin fee and interest on each of the dollars the Fed creates. That's what Income Tax pays. I'd say Russia's economy is stronger than ours, because ours is based on nothing but illusion.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I don't know what white phosphorus is but Russia is dropping it on ISIS

http://controversialtimes.com/news/russia-responds-to-isis-with-banned-white-phosphorus-attack-video/
Click to expand...

It's basically chemical warfare. You know, WMDs. According to convention, you're not supposed to apply it directly to enemy combatants, but Russia can always just claim- "Oopsie! We accidentally missed our intended target." The thing is now though, Moscow is going to really love the attach they will get in 6 months to a year from now. It's all about revenge. All of Middle East history seems to be about revenge.

If you happen to find yourself in Moscow in the near future, I suggest avoiding the bars, restaurants, night clubs, sporting venues and tourist attractions.
 
Henning said:
It's stuff that sticks to you and burns on contact with air. It's like burning people at the stake without having to bother staking them. Beheading is a kindness in comparison.
Click to expand...

After seeing some of the videos of ISIS executions, I couldn't care less that they're using Willie Pete on those guys. Might as well bring in the AP cluster munitions too for good measure. Good riddance.
 
Russia says 1 kilogram (2.2 lbs) bomb brought down the jet. ISIS says they used a soda can full of explosives. You can't cram 2.2 lbs of explosives into a 12 ounce soda can...
 
Codehead said:
Russia says 1 kilogram (2.2 lbs) bomb brought down the jet. ISIS says they used a soda can full of explosives. You can't cram 2.2 lbs of explosives into a 12 ounce soda can...
Click to expand...
but the dude-gal on MSNBC last night said it would work.....? :yikes:
 
Turningfinal said:
After seeing some of the videos of ISIS executions, I couldn't care less that they're using Willie Pete on those guys. Might as well bring in the AP cluster munitions too for good measure. Good riddance.
Click to expand...

Same thing they say when they see the results of drone strikes and bombings, only they don't see them on TV.
 
Codehead said:
Russia says 1 kilogram (2.2 lbs) bomb brought down the jet. ISIS says they used a soda can full of explosives. You can't cram 2.2 lbs of explosives into a 12 ounce soda can...
Click to expand...

How big is an ISIS soda can? How accurate do the press report on aircraft crashes? Why would they be anymore accurate about explosion quantity and container size?
 
Codehead said:
Russia says 1 kilogram (2.2 lbs) bomb brought down the jet. ISIS says they used a soda can full of explosives. You can't cram 2.2 lbs of explosives into a 12 ounce soda can...
Click to expand...

Baratol, a common improvised plastic explosive and one of the heavier ones has a specific gravity of around 2.5. 335cc would be 837.5g so that's what, 1.85lbs. If it was a half liter can, there would be room for 2.7lbs.
 
yup....

To-forgive-the-terrorists-i-yp-To-God-But-To-Send-Them-To-Him-Is-Up-To-Me.jpg
 
I only saw reports that Russia is confirming it was a bomb. I did see them say something about it being small. Did they specifically say it was 1 kg or did they say it was "something around 1 kg"? I'm not ready to get too hung up on the exact weight right now. How big does it really need to be to create enough overpressure to cause a skin panel to let go and for aerodynamic forces do the rest? I wonder if Russia will reconstruct the aircraft the way I've see us do and the way the MH aircraft was rebuilt after it was shot down.
 
Matthew said:
I only saw reports that Russia is confirming it was a bomb. I did see them say something about it being small. Did they specifically say it was 1 kg or did they say it was "something around 1 kg"? I'm not ready to get too hung up on the exact weight right now. How big does it really need to be to create enough overpressure to cause a skin panel to let go and for aerodynamic forces do the rest? I wonder if Russia will reconstruct the aircraft the way I've see us do and the way the MH aircraft was rebuilt after it was shot down.
Click to expand...

I would think a charge that small would have to be critically placed to bring down an airliner. And why would the over pressure blow off the tail? Much more likely an over pressure to rupture a flat panel seam. Thing about the investigation, it's really in everyone's best interest that this be an act of terrorism, even the insurer gets a break since acts of terrorism is an exclusion to strict liability. The only people that get screwed are the family of the dead, and Putin is a pretty stand up guy with the people, so he could just make it right with them. Pay off the families, declare, "It's a bomb" and everyone is happy, even ISIS.
 
Henning said:
I would think a charge that small would have to be critically placed to bring down an airliner. And why would the over pressure blow off the tail? Much more likely an over pressure to rupture a flat panel seam. Thing about the investigation, it's really in everyone's best interest that this be an act of terrorism, even the insurer gets a break since acts of terrorism is an exclusion to strict liability. The only people that get screwed are the family of the dead, and Putin is a pretty stand up guy with the people, so he could just make it right with them. Pay off the families, declare, "It's a bomb" and everyone is happy, even ISIS.
Click to expand...

I dunno, just speculating - setting it off in the rear lav might cause enough structural damage for the tail to come off. Terrorists just need to get lucky once in order to claim success.
 
Henning said:
I would think a charge that small would have to be critically placed to bring down an airliner. And why would the over pressure blow off the tail? Much more likely an over pressure to rupture a flat panel seam. Thing about the investigation, it's really in everyone's best interest that this be an act of terrorism, even the insurer gets a break since acts of terrorism is an exclusion to strict liability. The only people that get screwed are the family of the dead, and Putin is a pretty stand up guy with the people, so he could just make it right with them. Pay off the families, declare, "It's a bomb" and everyone is happy, even ISIS.
Click to expand...

But if it was structural failure and is ruled as such, the only dead are those on the plane. Sure the insurance company takes a hit and the maintenance on the aircraft will come under review but no more lives are lost.

If it is ruled a bomb regardless if it was or not, the dead will not only be those on the plane but those who die on all sides in the resulting escalated military actions. Do you really think that is worth protecting airbus or an insurance company's interests?

Do you really think providing motivation to escalate the war is truly "in everyone's best interest"? I think it's rather sad if you do.
 
Henning said:
I would think a charge that small would have to be critically placed to bring down an airliner. And why would the over pressure blow off the tail? Much more likely an over pressure to rupture a flat panel seam. Thing about the investigation, it's really in everyone's best interest that this be an act of terrorism, even the insurer gets a break since acts of terrorism is an exclusion to strict liability. The only people that get screwed are the family of the dead, and Putin is a pretty stand up guy with the people, so he could just make it right with them. Pay off the families, declare, "It's a bomb" and everyone is happy, even ISIS.
Click to expand...

" Putin is a standup guy with the people" is an absurd statement. He's only a standup guy with his cronies who controll Russia and are robbing it blind. The "people" only hear what he wants them to hear as the press and TV are very closely controlled. The bomb theory allows him to step up operations in Syria where he's had a large base for many years and that he wants to expand. He's an ex KGB criminal. Any reporter in Russia who has tried to tell the truth has been murdered.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
" Putin is a standup guy with the people" is an absurd statement. He's only a standup guy with his cronies who controll Russia and are robbing it blind. The "people" only hear what he wants them to hear as the press and TV are very closely controlled. The bomb theory allows him to step up operations in Syria where he's had a large base for many years and that he wants to expand. He's an ex KGB criminal. Any reporter in Russia who has tried to tell the truth has been murdered.
Click to expand...

"Putin is a standup guy with the people" is what Russians think of him, not the West. He plays his electorate like a violin maestro. He controls the media in Russia. Everything else you say is true.
 
Henning said:
Baratol, a common improvised plastic explosive and one of the heavier ones has a specific gravity of around 2.5. 335cc would be 837.5g so that's what, 1.85lbs. If it was a half liter can, there would be room for 2.7lbs.
Click to expand...

The picture of the can was of a 12 ounce can. NOT 1/2 liter.
 
Codehead said:
The picture of the can was of a 12 ounce can. NOT 1/2 liter.
Click to expand...

For one thing, in most of the world you would find 330 ml cans, not 12 ounce cans. The latter is 335 ml, which is also 335 cc. I can't read the size of the can in the photo below, but I'd bet it is 330 ml and not 12 ounces.

For another thing, Henning actually wrote "335cc would be 837.5g." He calculated this weight correctly, and it does come pretty close to 1 kg, which is the round number mentioned by the Russians.

151118144615-bomb-sinai-plane-exlarge-169.jpg
 
SkyDog58 said:
But if it was structural failure and is ruled as such, the only dead are those on the plane. Sure the insurance company takes a hit and the maintenance on the aircraft will come under review but no more lives are lost.

If it is ruled a bomb regardless if it was or not, the dead will not only be those on the plane but those who die on all sides in the resulting escalated military actions. Do you really think that is worth protecting airbus or an insurance company's interests?

Do you really think providing motivation to escalate the war is truly "in everyone's best interest"? I think it's rather sad if you do.
Click to expand...

It depends on the mood of those controlling the information. Everybody seems to want to give ISIS what they want including the US public, a nuclear war. Let's just do it and get it over with. Set a schedule and tell me where it's going to land so I can watch it through welding goggles and be sure to be inside the ring of annihilation. This has nothing to do with Airbus or the insurance, they are just beneficiaries who aren't going to argue against a bomb. This has to do with how Putin wants to use it strategically.
 
How much explosive was in the Lockerbie bomb? I don't believe any side in these things, between spin, political games, and incompetent journalists. But ramps ain't secure in America I doubt they are any better in Egypt, bomb seems plausible.
 
Phoenix said:
How much explosive was in the Lockerbie bomb? I don't believe any side in these things, between spin, political games, and incompetent journalists. But ramps ain't secure in America I doubt they are any better in Egypt, bomb seems plausible.
Click to expand...

I just happened to have been watching a three part Frontline episode on the Lockerbie bombing. It was 1 pound of Semtex placed inside a boom-box style tape player/radio.

Video of an exemplar showed that it completely demolished a wide body jet. It was way more than enough to get the job done. 1/2 as much would have done the job.
 
Last edited:
Dav8or said:
It's basically chemical warfare.
Click to expand...

No its not. Its incendiary. It's primary use is for illumination. Think of the scene in Platoon where the flares are falling at night lighting up the whole battleground. That's what that was. But, you sure as **** don't want to get any of it burning anywhere on your body. It will keep burning through everything until all of the phosphorus has been burned. It will burn under water, too. So don't bother trying to extinguish it that way.
 
Last edited:
SkyDog58 said:
Do you really think providing motivation to escalate the war is truly "in everyone's best interest"? I think it's rather sad if you do.
Click to expand...

ISIS goal is to start a war with the west in the middle east which they believe will bring about armageddon and send them all to heaven, or banish the infidels or whatever. I know I have the start a war and bring about armageddon part right.

So all of these terrorist attacks are an attempt to provoke and start this war. Unfortunately for ISIS, the coming armageddon will only be for them.
 
Henning said:
Everybody seems to want to give ISIS what they want including the US public, a nuclear war. Let's just do it and get it over with.
Click to expand...

We can't nuke the middle east, the oil will be hot for generations.
 
Anthony said:
I don't care about their oil. We have plenty, and natural gas too. And COAL!
Click to expand...

Yes, but if the middle east oil is hot the soviets oil is suddenly worth a lot more. We can't have that, can we?
 
Phoenix said:
How much explosive was in the Lockerbie bomb? I don't believe any side in these things, between spin, political games, and incompetent journalists. But ramps ain't secure in America I doubt they are any better in Egypt, bomb seems plausible.
Click to expand...

A baggage handler would be the most likely to plant a bomb, and would have easy access to critical locations to place it.

There is no such thing as security and safety, they are illusions, concepts around which to create fear and propaganda, as long as there are hungry or oppressed anywhere.
 
PPC1052 said:
No its not. Its incendiary. It's primary use is for illumination. Think of the scene in Platoon where the flares are falling at night lighting up the whole battleground. That's what that was. But, you sure as **** don't want to get any of it burning anywhere on your body. It will keep burning through everything until all of the phosphorus has been burned. It will burn under water, too. So don't bother trying to extinguish it that way.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand what it's "official" use is and why armies including ours can "legally" use it, but when you drop it purposely on people, it's chemical warfare. Now I don't know what the Russians did, or didn't do, but the accusation was that they dropped it on ISIS fighters. If that is so, that's chemical warfare in my book.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top