Roger, Wilco Over and Out...

TK211X

TK211X

Pre-takeoff checklist
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My understanding from books and video courses was that "CB slang" has no place in aviation. Like these are FAA no no's. Some people even frown at saying "With you" etc. on hand overs.

However interpreted; I was vaguely told/understand that Roger and Wilco were used at one point formally or informally and discouraged from use some time ago.

On some recent flights, and it even seems like only recently, I have heard even a controller respond "Roger" and rarely Wilco used in response by a pilot. Most rare of all someone said "Over." Did I miss a memo or are there military pilots or pilots who recently got their medical and biannual and initially certificated/taught from a time when this was generally accepted.

I'm a bit confused. I personally never did and don't plan to use this phraseology.
 
Well, I don't remember "roger" or "wilco" being discouraged, but I do think they get misused. Roger doesn't mean anything except "I heard you". If direction was given by ATC, responding with "Roger" will likely elicit more dialogue. If you respond, with "Roger, wilco", that should be acceptable as it implies that you both heard, and will comply with the instruction.
 
Roger can also mean "affirmative". "34865, are you going to the FBO?" "Roger, 34865 going to the FBO."
 
People don't talk like robots and use textbook phraseology at every moment, so hearing 'unconventional' verbiage is common.

As far as I'm concerned, 'roger' and 'wilco' are common and accepted phrases and always have been.
 
Ravioli said:
When I hear ATITAPA I always respond with "Wilco"
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You should be saying " roger". "Wilco" is short for "will comply" and it doesn't sound like you are complying.
 
Ravioli said:
When I hear ATITAPA I always respond with "Wilco"
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asicer said:
You should be saying " roger". "Wilco" is short for "will comply" and it doesn't sound like you are complying.
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I wouldn't say roger either. If somebody is on CTAF asking if there's other traffic in the area, then state your position, don't just say roger. That's useless and not helpful.
 
"Roger" is common, "Wilco" less so but still OK where appropriate. I've never heard anybody say "over". "Ten-Four good buddy" would definitely be frowned on.
 
I always thought roger was pointless but that wilco serves a purpose. "N12345 advise tower you're IFR" / "Wilco, N12345". It's pretty pointless to read that kind of instruction back, but it's worth letting ATC know that I'll do what they want me to.

I don't get why a pilot would reply with Roger, though---just say your tail. "N1235 moderate precipitation observed over your route of flight for next 30 miles" / "N12345". ATC says roger a lot, of course. Pretty much every check in above 17,500 is met just with "roger."
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Roger can also mean "affirmative". "34865, are you going to the FBO?" "Roger, 34865 going to the FBO."
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As used in your example, then okay but roger meaning affirmative? Nope de nope nope nope. :nonod:

Roger and wilco used in the right context are just as common as cleared for take off. I use them on both sides of the microphone. Except as a controller I don't use wilco all that often. No pilot is gonna tell ME what to do. :nono:
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Roger can also mean "affirmative". "34865, are you going to the FBO?" "Roger, 34865 going to the FBO."
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Technically, though, that isn't correct. "Affirmative, we're going to the FBO" would be the right way to answer. That said, it's pretty clear what you're saying either way.

Roger = "I heard you"
Affirmative = "Yes"
Negative = "No"
Wilco = "I'll comply with your instruction"

Obviously, the latter three all imply "roger"; if you hadn't heard the instruction, you wouldn't be in a position to react to it.
 
Roger Murdock: Flight 2-0-9'er, you are cleared for take-off.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Captain Oveur: What?
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!
Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.
Tower voice: Over.
Captain Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: Roger, over!
Roger Murdock: What?
Captain Oveur: Huh?

Cheers
 
Would be fun...

"Six Papa Charlie, what's your 20?"
"Doing a double nickle on the down wind, and would like to come land on there ye 9th street for some go-go juice."

"Roger Papa, throw a flip-flop once you pass that gear jammer in the Moonie. Put your hammer down since you'll have a Meat wagon up your donkey."
"10-4 good buddy, hey what's the 10-12 status at the FBO? Any Evil Knievel's waiting for me at the ramp?"

"Mmm... I have a 10-84 for you, do you have a pencil?"
 
I use and hear "Roger" and "Wilco" regularly and neither would be considered slang.

"Roger good buddy"...now that would be slang and inappropriate.
 
Roger: "I have understood your transmission."
Wilco: "I will comply."
Over: "I am finished with my transmission, your turn." (Generally inapplicable to aviation communication)
Out: "I am finished, I do not expect a reply." (Generally inapplicable to aviation communication)
Say again: "I did not understand your last transmission."
Repeat: "Fire another artillery barrage." (Generally inapplicable to aviation communication, particularly civil. It is a carryover from military radio procedures.)
 
Isn't "over" a holdover from a days gone by when radios transmissions were often broken and garbled and saying "over" was clear way to end the transmission with clarification?


...then too many jackwaggon wannabes saw Smokey and the Bandit...
 
Shawn said:
Isn't "over" a holdover from a days gone by when radios transmissions were often broken and garbled and saying "over" was clear way to end the transmission with clarification?


...then too many jackwaggon wannabes saw Smokey and the Bandit...
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Yes and no. Over is still very much in use in maritime and other military radio communications, partly for that reason, but also to let the person on the receiving end know that you are done with your transmission and are now essentially passing the mic to them to respond. But we tend to be a lot more verbose in the maritime world.

Aviation comms are by nature much shorter and brevity is the key, so as radio quality improved, words like roger, over, out..etc have fallen out of use.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yes and no. Over is still very much in use in maritime and other military radio communications, partly for that reason, but also to let the person on the receiving end know that you are done with your transmission and are now essentially passing the mic to them to respond. But we tend to be a lot more verbose in the maritime world.

Aviation comms are by nature much shorter and brevity is the key, so as radio quality improved, words like roger, over, out..etc have fallen out of use.
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'Xactly.
 
Wonder what ATC's reaction would be today if someone asked for a radio count? Would new controllers know what it means and why?
 
SoonerAviator said:
Well, I don't remember "roger" or "wilco" being discouraged....
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I recall a fairly well-known aviation columnist saying the were passé, and no one ever used them anymore.

He printed a retraction when he found out how small his little kingdom where nobody used it was. ;)
 
SoonerAviator said:
Well, I don't remember "roger" or "wilco" being discouraged, but I do think they get misused.
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"Roger", "wilco", and "over" are all listed in the Pilot/Control Glossary and, as such, are recommended standard phraseology. If you haven't read through the P/CG you might find it useful.

JohnAJohnson said:
Roger can also mean "affirmative".
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"Roger" does not also mean affirmative. "Roger" means only that you've received the message. The P/CG entry for "roger" specifically says that it should not be used to answer a yes or no question.

"Wilco" means that you have received the message and will comply so saying "roger wilco" is redundant. You are actually say, "I have received your message, I have received your message and will comply".

"Roger" is rarely needed by a pilot as a pilot can accomplish the same thing with just his call sign. "Roger" is used frequently by ATC to indicate that they have received a pilot's message, ATC: "N12345, Roger".

Shawn said:
Isn't "over" a holdover from a days gone by when radios transmissions were often broken and garbled and saying "over" was clear way to end the transmission with clarification?
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Rarely needed with good VHF communication but most of the globe isn't within good VHF radio coverage. "Over" is quite helpful on HF when the other party can't hear you well and can't hear when you unkey your mike like you can on VHF.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
Wonder what ATC's reaction would be today if someone asked for a radio count? Would new controllers know what it means and why?
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Very curious and google turned up nothing. Please explain?
 
I am too cool to use the plain word "Roger".

I use the term "Rodney" instead.....:lol::lol::lol:
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Roger can also mean "affirmative". "34865, are you going to the FBO?" "Roger, 34865 going to the FBO."
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TK211X said:
Very curious and google turned up nothing. Please explain?
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Prior to radios having discrete receive frequencies they had tunable reception by turning a crank on the front of the radios, these were called Coffey grinders. The last ones built had an internal whistle generated to match the transmit frequency the radio was set on and you would pull a knob to start the internal whistle and then turn the crank to find and maximize the tone. These were called "whistle stop" models such as Narco vht 3's. Prior to the 3's you had to ask the tower for a radio count and tower operator would count up to 10 so that the pilot could tune in his radio to his frequency. My first radio was a Narco vht 2 and had 11 or 12 transmit frequencies, one step better than a megaphone - maybe? Kudos to Timbeck2 for knowing the answer!
 
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