Rant On: Commercial Air Travel Is The Pits!

wilkersk

wilkersk

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Divert for a “temp probe”, delayed flight, missed connection, delayed again for lack of flight crew all in one day. Been going since 2:30. am, fueled now by caffeine and stubbornness. Boarding time over an hour late know and the gate counter is still dead. Oh, and to top it off I’m now gonna miss another connection in another airport and have yet to find a way to my original destination. What the heck?!!!!
 
I had one of those fail on a 767. It’s connected to so many systems there was just no way to defer it. It’s also heated and aspirated, so a bit complicated.
 
Re: Commercial air travel in a Pitts:
1778069243190.png
They mean it when they say buckle your seat belts before landing!
 
Even when things go perfectly, commercial travel is not so great. I just flew United to/from Tokyo on a 787 in Economy (for work), and it was miserable. Seating arrangement is just too small. I'm around an average-sized guy, and my seatmate was a smaller woman, but even so I was simultaneously rubbing shoulders with her *and* getting jostled by everyone going up and down the aisle. With my backpack under the seat in front, there was very little room for my feet. I didn't dare recline my seat more than a tiny bit to avoid encroaching on the person behind me. It's a technological marvel that allows us to travel halfway around the globe in 14 hrs, but it's still a highly uncomfortable experience.
 
Jim_R said:
Even when things go perfectly, commercial travel is not so great.
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Concur. I will say when we travel internationally, we do Premium Economy at a minimum. If it’s longer than 9 hours and overnight, we bite the bullet and go business.

Obviously, our budget is the limiting factor, so we’re down to an international trip every other year at best now. I’ve given my employer the same requirement if they want me to travel internationally. So far employer hasn’t pressed to test my resolve on the matter.
 
It all sucks. I'll generally spend $100/hr for an upgrade to first class, and $150 if it's more than 8 hours, just to cut the misery down.

On my last flight (COD to SFO via SLC) "First Class" meant a bag of chips and a drink on Delta. Other than the dumb seat, I'm not really sure how they take themselves seriously. It should just be "I want to still feel my ass when we land" class.

Lately the pricing has been such that fuel in the baron is less than a solo economy fare for a lot of my west coast destinations, and that makes no sense. 2X is the norm.
 
Adjusted for inflation...

1977: Your unrestricted round-trip Y class airfare from ORD to LAX was approximately $1000. Your admission to Disneyland cost $32.

2026: Your round-trip airfare ORD-LAX is about $425 for the same seat. But your day at Disneyland now costs $160 ($110-224 depending on day).

Given the above, what do you expect?

As for diverting for a faulty temp probe, that sucks. When I encounter situations like that, I just remind myself of the Donner Party.
 
What’s the alternative? Even with all your delays I bet you will still get there quicker than driving or taking a train (both of which are also likely more expensive)
 
Finally got to destination at 1:30am, after 4 legs and 23 hours of a planned 2 leg, 12 hour travel day. Going up and back down in the 8,000 foot tube 4 times in one day when you don't do it on a regular basis is rough on the insides.
 
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I just had a remarkably satisfactory experience flying round-trip 'twixt San Antonio and Boston, both flights a connection (Chicago going up, DFW coming back); I could have flown non-stop from Austin, but that airport is such a goat rodeo now, I prefer San Antonio even with a stop.

We flew in AA First, and the cabin crew in all of our flights were simply delightful - not just phoning it in like we've seen so much of late; it's amazing how much of a difference that makes.

The return flight first leg (BOS to DFW) was delayed by about :30 due to crew scheduling issues, and I was fretting about our 1:00 connection at DFW (and, especially, about our bags making the trip), but I needn't have worried - all good, and it is nice that you can track bags in real time on the app - no wondering about whether they made the flight. The bags connected almost as fast as we did.

And, Wifi is free now for AAdvantage members.

I think they're trying.
 
When it's all working correctly, it's a mediocre experience at best. A large part of the problem is simply the other people. I don't know what it is, but the general public, especially in an airport or on an airplane, is just complete garbage. People are rude, have no sense of their surroundings, clueless, slow, in the way, etc. Then there is the sizeable portion of the population that isn't just passively rude, but just actively act like asshats all the time (the ones with a massive sense of entitlement).

Then there are the gate agents and flight attendants, most of whom are also mediocre at best and sometimes just actively hostile to customers. I get why (see above), but it makes the whole process exhausting. Even worse are the airports who refuse to offer "known" food options, and instead opt to have food vendors that nobody has ever heard of, that sell odd (still terrible) food at high prices. They think they're being forward-thinking by keeping the '"chains" out, but all they're doing is screwing passengers who just want a known, average meal while dealing with the hellscape that is commercial travel.

I can't fly myself for work, but I'm really trying to pivot more and more of my personal travel to my Duke (which is objectively more expensive, but at least I'm away from the commercial circus).
 
SCCutler said:
I think they're trying.
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Oh, I know they are. In all the commercial flights I've had to endure, it has been pretty rare that things have gotten as bad as yesterday. And, everyone was very professional. I just thought it was kinda of humorously ironic to "bash" any kind of flying (even if it is in the back of the bus) on the POA forum.

bradg33 said:
...People are rude, have no sense of their surroundings, clueless, slow, in the way, etc. Then there is the sizeable portion of the population that isn't just passively rude, but just actively act like asshats all the time (the ones with a massive sense of entitlement).
...
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I know exactly what you mean. I could be the friendliest, most likable person ever, just if it weren't for other people.
 
Good ole days. When I graduated college I was on the road around the world for 40-45 weeks a year. Our corp travel office treated me well, and I had a lot o perks for most carriers. It wasn't a bad life being single, and near constant travel. Air crews were generally nice, and young, and easygoing. Missing a connection I could walk down the concourse and pick another airline and another flight and get where I was going with minimal fuss. Rarely had to sit on the apron for very long. Free beer on some flights, regular upgrades to business class.

I haven't been on a comm plane for six years. And the last time I was on one it was tragic. Just getting to the boarding gate was a hassle. No, I'm not going through the radiation chamber, I'd rather get felt up by a smelly 300Lb jerk. Boarding as crowded, people jammed up to the door. The stews are like 80 and snarling. Don't dare make eye contact - with anyone. If you are sitting next to a female, don't look, glance, lean, and god no don't bump or touch one. Overhead bins are full, seat doesn't lean back, and marginal legroom.

I hate going comm now. Avoid it at all costs. It used to be so cool, drop my MC at Lindbergh field, and run out to the tarmac, climb the airstair quickly, get the door shut and boom! an hour later I'm picking up my rental at SJC. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.
 
Barrett50 said:
Good ole days. When I graduated college I was on the road around the world for 40-45 weeks a year. Our corp travel office treated me well, and I had a lot o perks for most carriers. It wasn't a bad life being single, and near constant travel. Air crews were generally nice, and young, and easygoing. Missing a connection I could walk down the concourse and pick another airline and another flight and get where I was going with minimal fuss. Rarely had to sit on the apron for very long. Free beer on some flights, regular upgrades to business class.
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Like you, I racked up an extensive business travel log; so much so that with United and Delta I was basically royalty. You know it’s gone off the rails when the crew on the LAX–JFK "shuttle" knows your name; and not only invites you to their son's weeding, but quietly upgrades you to first class after the door closes, like some kind of frequent-flyer witness protection program.

Did I say off the rails...yes, living out of a suitcase week after week after week followed by a brief disorienting layover at home where you’re not entirely sure what time zone you’re in does eventually feel less like a lifestyle and more like a medical condition.

Anyway, in all those years, sure, there were frustrating days. But reading the constant stream of complaints now, I can’t help but wonder: how many times did they actually get it right? Because there are a lot of moving parts in air travel. These days, you have to treat flying like the NYC subway crossed with a box of chocolates, you’re probably going to be late, and whatever you get, it won’t be what you expected.

Barrett50 said:
I hate going comm now. Avoid it at all costs. It used to be so cool, drop my MC at Lindbergh field, and run out to the tarmac, climb the airstair quickly, get the door shut and boom! an hour later I'm picking up my rental at SJC. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.
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I used to roll out of bed at 6:00 AM, drive a few blocks to KLGB, park practically on the runway, stroll onto the plane like I owned it, and somehow be sitting in a 9:30 meeting in downtown Phoenix. No TSA marathon, no gate-change scavenger hunt; just me, a boarding pass, and the illusion that air travel would always be this civilized. Not!!!!!
 
Another 20K annual.
H_LL will have to freeze over B4 I give up my ability to travel in the CONUS on my own (and I KNOW it will freeze over pretty soon).
 
Larry in TN said:
We're up to almost 3 million airline passengers a day in the US. It's transportation for the masses. No longer an exclusive experience.
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That is why there is a new union forming... International Brotherhood of Airline Travelers Professional Passenger Victims. Love their slogan, "Its All About Me."
 
Jim_R said:
Even when things go perfectly, commercial travel is not so great. I just flew United to/from Tokyo on a 787 in Economy (for work), and it was miserable. Seating arrangement is just too small. I'm around an average-sized guy, and my seatmate was a smaller woman, but even so I was simultaneously rubbing shoulders with her *and* getting jostled by everyone going up and down the aisle. With my backpack under the seat in front, there was very little room for my feet. I didn't dare recline my seat more than a tiny bit to avoid encroaching on the person behind me. It's a technological marvel that allows us to travel halfway around the globe in 14 hrs, but it's still a highly uncomfortable experience.
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There is a solution for that.
 
Jim_R said:
...*and* getting jostled by everyone going up and down the aisle. ...
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It amazes me that other people cannot walk down the aisle in smooth air without crashing into the people in the aisle seats, or sit in their seat without grabbing the headrest of the seat in front of them and shaking it like a cherry tree shaker when they sit down. That earlier quip about people being completely clueless to their surroundings was dead on.
 
wilkersk said:
It amazes me that other people cannot walk down the aisle in smooth air without crashing into the people in the aisle seats, or sit in their seat without grabbing the headrest of the seat in front of them and shaking it like a cherry tree shaker when they sit down. That earlier quip about people being completely clueless to their surroundings was dead on.
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I don't blame the people. If my shoulders fit comfortably within the confines of the seat, it wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that the seats (and the aisle) are so narrow that it's difficult to avoid contact. Like I said, I was nearly simultaneously touching both my adjacent seatmate *and* still in the way of aisle traffic. What was happening was that I was cheating away from my seatmate very slightly, but that was enough to put my shoulder in the aisle. I'd get jostled from someone traversing the aisle, which would bump me into my seatmate.

The solution to that isn't more thoughtful people, it's wider seats and aisles.
 
MauleSkinner said:
But that’s not what the thoughtless masses want.
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It's hard to know anymore, because there's very little option for the thoughtless masses to choose otherwise. The step up to the few "Economy Plus" seats in my plane was $250. Those provide extra legroom but no extra seat width. I was prevented from choosing that due to gov't travel rules, but all those seats were full.
 
Jim_R said:
I don't blame the people. If my shoulders fit comfortably within the confines of the seat, it wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that the seats (and the aisle) are so narrow that it's difficult to avoid contact. Like I said, I was nearly simultaneously touching both my adjacent seatmate *and* still in the way of aisle traffic. What was happening was that I was cheating away from my seatmate very slightly, but that was enough to put my shoulder in the aisle. I'd get jostled from someone traversing the aisle, which would bump me into my seatmate.

The solution to that isn't more thoughtful people, it's wider seats and aisles.
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Jim, I feel your pain. As a former airline employee, I've utilized my fabulous employee travel benefits to fly SFO-HKG and SFO-NRT in a middle seat in the back of the plane. While those seats cost me virtually nothing, I had to endure the woe suffering just the same.

Wider seats and aisles will come to an airline near you, just as soon as customers prove that they're willing to pay for them.
 
Roger Wilco said:
In the wake of deregulation, airlines learned a simple lesson about their product: don't give people what they want, give them what they are willing to pay for. And that's how we arrived at this sorry state of affairs.
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I’d say people may THINK they want something else, but if they don’t want it enough to pay for it, they really don’t want it.
 
Jim_R said:
Not if you're traveling for business under government travel rules.
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Well that's the issue. People want cheap tickets, so they need to fit more seats into the airplane to keep the tickets cheap. They also have plenty of premium options, you just need to pay for them. If your employer will only pay for the cheapest seat, well.....
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’d say people may THINK they want something else, but if they don’t want it enough to pay for it, they really don’t want it.
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No, they really DO want to fly as if they were on their own personal BBJ. Who doesn’t want that?
 
wilkersk said:
Divert for a “temp probe”, delayed flight, missed connection, delayed again for lack of flight crew all in one day. Been going since 2:30. am, fueled now by caffeine and stubbornness. Boarding time over an hour late know and the gate counter is still dead. Oh, and to top it off I’m now gonna miss another connection in another airport and have yet to find a way to my original destination. What the heck?!!!!
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Commercial air travel is painful, no doubt about it.

That said, I try to make it as bearable as possible with a couple rules:
- Avoid connections if at all possible
- Avoid regional carriers. Try and fly on mainline.
- Stick with the big 4 (UA, SWA, DL, AA).
- If you are on regional carriers, try to stick with the bigger ones. Avoid CommuteAir, GoJet, etc.
 
De-regulation of the industry was the right way to go. let consumers decide. Like others, I was limited or restricted by corp travel ofc to what I could get. After a few years with the employer I kinda put my foot down on what I wouldn't fly. No more eastward red-eye! If they wanted me on a red-eye from the west coast it had to be first class so I could sleep, and they only did that a few times. Do NOT connect through ATL. Ever. No more run for your life! connection. And, I finally got sick of them putting me on a Sat return home, and demanded a Friday return home. After I got some miles on my cards, things went smoothly.

One of my kids travels a lot now, and she's smart about it. Picks small regional airports to start trip like COS, or SAC, and just drives a bit further. Rarely any lines, and easy parking. After sitting in the security line at OAK for 2 plus hours, that was the end of them.
 
I am fortunate to be able to skip the airlines flying private. The few times I do fly commercial, it usually gives me anxiety. Most of the time is not as bad as I anticipate, but sometimes it’s a little worse. As long as I have a little money and a Medical gonna keep doing it. I think when either of those are depleted I’ll probably stick to car or maybe even upgrade to RV travel. Even those big Bus things are cheaper than general Aviation ;-)
 
Groundpounder said:
Well that's the issue. People want cheap tickets, so they need to fit more seats into the airplane to keep the tickets cheap. They also have plenty of premium options, you just need to pay for them. If your employer will only pay for the cheapest seat, well.....
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When the owner of the company flies cattle class, you don’t even ask for economy plus or business.
 
The new normal with booking flights is offering ridiculously short connecting flight times. On a recent trip I saw 45 minutes for flights through DFW. I picked a better option. A coworker didn’t, and he was bumped to another flight when it was impossible to make the connection, and landed many hours after me.
 
Bill said:
When the owner of the company flies cattle class, you don’t even ask for economy plus or business.
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With some employers, flying anything but the cheap seats is even prohibited by law.
 
Jim_R said:
With some employers, flying anything but the cheap seats is even prohibited by law.
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If I remember it right, a cheap air carrier cost us almost as many members of the 101st Airborne as the Germans did at Bastogne.

Not to be political, but we're really great at saving pennies and loosing people, sight of the big picture, etc. And sorry to be so negative.
 
I never understood the appeal of paying for premium class, but I am glad people do because their higher fare subsidizes everyone else in the economy class. I am willing to pay more for better connections or non-stops, but sitting in a smaller seat for a few hours and saving a few hundred bucks is ok with me.
 
sarangan said:
I never understood the appeal of paying for premium class, but I am glad people do because their higher fare subsidizes everyone else in the economy class. I am willing to pay more for better connections or non-stops, but sitting in a smaller seat for a few hours and saving a few hundred bucks is ok with me.
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For 2-3 hours, I can tolerate today's tiny seats okay. 14 hours to the other side of the world is a very different story. There's a reason "lie-flat" seats are a thing on long-haul flights.
 
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