Rant On: Commercial Air Travel Is The Pits!

[Larry in TN]

how many new runways have been built in the last 20 years? 30 years? how many new runways are in the process of being built?

Quite a few.

ORD has completely reconfigured their runways in the past 16 years. They have since expanded Terminal 5, are in the process of building two new concourses in Terminal 1, when complete, that will allow them to replace Terminal 2 with a new international arrivals facility. The new runway configuration allows operations on five runways simultaneously. ATL built the new south runway, also brining their capacity to five simultaneous runway options. DFW added a runway, bringing their total to seven. CLT last added a runway in 2010 and has another currently under construction. DEN replaced the old Stapleton airport 31 years ago brining size, 12,000+ runways online and recently completed the expansion of each of their three concourses. SLT recently replaced their entire terminal and concourse complex. DTW added a runway and new terminal, Deltas, 25-30 years ago. IAH added its fifth runway in 2007, two new north C concourses have opened in the past couple of years and a massive expansion of the north B concourse is underway. SEA added a runway in 2007. BOS added a runway in 2006. FLL in 2014.

Nearly every commercial airport of any size has ongoing, or recently completed, expansion projects.

how many new airports are in the works?

New airports rarely make sense. IAD, DEN, and DFW were such projects but all of those had space and they took a while to catch on. IAD is still well below the capacity of its four runway, though concourse expansion is underway. NYC is some of the most congested airspace with JFK, LGA, EWR, and TEB. Not sure where you'd put another one that people would be willing to travel to. The NYC airspace is the limiting factor, not the runways.

We have RVSM, reduced separations in oceanic airspace, systems that allow reduced separations in the NAS, increased com capacity, but not much in the way of increasing runways. RVSM, RNP-10, RNP-4, RNP-1, RNP-.1, ADS-A. etc etc etc won't do much good if we don't have the runways to use for landings and take-offs.

That's not true. Airspace is more often the limiting factor than runways, particularly when there is convective weather. In those cases, the runways we have are underutilized because the terminal and enroute airspace is saturated under the current systems and staffing. ATC staffing and automation, to make the existing controllers more productive, are the areas that can provide the fastest relief.

 

[flyingron]

how many new runways have been built in the last 20 years? 30 years?

Quite a few, but they're not always the choke point.

DCA is just an abomination that should have a fork stuck in it. It's in the middle of the megopolis and there's no room to expand but they continue to allow the airlines to expand into it primarily because of perks given to the congressional regulators who get their primo parking spaces and want convenient flights going home. AA turned it into a hub making it worse.

Similarly, EWR has gone from an "also" airport in the NY area to a major hub for a couple of airlines, and there's no possibility that there will be any more capacity added there.

At least they're trying to rein in ORD.

DEN at least moved the airport out somewhere they could expand the capacity.

 

[Roger Wilco]

If I'm in coach and you're in the seat in front of me, your seat will not be able to recline. Not a question of your space or my space. It's simple geometry.

Sorry--I was never very good at geometry, and I don't have access to the kind of mind-expanding psychedelics that allow me to envision an individual in those dimensions. Or maybe I just haven't flown that particular airline.

 

[Half Fast]

No ****. At 6’6” I’m not sitting in the cheap seats if I have any other option.

At 5'3" I can handle the small seat. What I can't handle is the 6'6" 250lb guy who won't pay for an upgrade and tries to wedge himself into the seat next to me. Usually he's on his way home after a month on an oil rig and hasn't bathed for a week.

 

[Jim_R]

We complain about those airline seats, then fly little planes with cabins barely 40" across.

A) I don't fly in my plane for 14 hours at a time.
B) I often fly by myself in my plane, and I've been known to stretch a leg into the copilot footwell from time to time.
C) I don't have a backpack jammed up under the panel with no room left for my feet.
D) I've never gotten a bruise on my shoulder in my plane from getting rammed by a catering cart.

 

[Jim_R]

Usually he's on his way home after a month on an oil rig and hasn't bathed for a week.

When I travel for business, not only do federal laws dictate that I get the cheapest fare (and thus the smallest seat), there is no practical provision to allow me to pay out of my own pocket for an upgrade. Theoretically it is possible (at least under certain conditions) for me to pay out of pocket, but with so many constraints and so many layers of management review involved that it's really only worth the hassle in extreme circumstances. I suspect similar practical limitations exist for a significant fraction of business travelers.

Plus, paying out of pocket for business travel simply transfers the trauma from physical to emotional.

 

[Rockymountain]

I generally only fly airlines when my plane is in the shop, and I have to airline to or from putting it in the shop. I

It only reinforces my thoughts that I will do whatever it takes to own and fly my own plane as long as possible. Flying commercial is a form of self induced masochism. Few places I want to go badly enough to endure it.

 

[schmookeeg]

I am willing to pay $100/hr to upgrade to first. If an ocean is involved, $200/hr. Based on recent nutball airfares I am seeing, I probably need to inflation-adjust those, sigh.

I don't understand the anecdote about flying GA planes that are 40" wide. No coach seat is 20" across that I am aware of. And certainly no airlines offer me a view forward and as many screens to look at I need to measure my "seat pitch" in the front, I bet it smokes coach class also.

 

[Brad W]

At 5'3" I can handle the small seat. What I can't handle is the 6'6" 250lb guy who won't pay for an upgrade and tries to wedge himself into the seat next to me. Usually he's on his way home after a month on an oil rig and hasn't bathed for a week.

100%
I'm a little taller at 5-9 but have only lately had a little problem with lack of knee room... mostly because someone in front is reclining
but yeah

I had a flight similar to yours with your offshore oil friend. I think it was on a regional many years ago...back when they were turboprops....but it might have been on a small jet, can't remember for sure

full flight - strike 1
I had an aisle near the lavs in the back - strike 2
the guy next to me was wide. so wide he absolutely had to raise the armrest - strike 3...so wide in fact that he took up probably 40% of my seat. I can't beleieve the airline flew, me sitting literally with one cheek hanging off the seat into the aisle. I was ****ed, would have gotten off the plane but for whatever reason I felt like I needed to get home or wherever it was that I was going.
At least it was a regional short flight
icing on the cake...I'm pretty sure that was a flight that ended up getting held on the ground for a while...don't know if it was a maint squawk, or ATC/weather or what...
I was ****ed
but in hindsight I felt bad for the big guy too. He was probably more miserable than me!

 

[Larry in TN]

C) I don't have a backpack jammed up under the panel with no room left for my feet.

Try moving your under-seat bag, after takeoff, to behind your legs. Leaves the under-seat space open to stretch out. You can keep it there until they prepare the cabin for landing.

 

[donjohnston]

Sorry--I was never very good at geometry, and I don't have access to the kind of mind-expanding psychedelics that allow me to envision an individual in those dimensions. Or maybe I just haven't flown that particular airline.

I'm 6'5" tall. In a coach seat and even some airlines "comfort plus" type seats, my knees are jammed tight into the seatback in front. There is no way that seat in front can recline.

I'm surprised you've never seen, let alone can envision, someone taller than 6'4". You should go to a college or professional basketball game sometime. You will be astounded.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I'm 6'5" tall. In a coach seat and even some airlines "comfort plus" type seats, my knees are jammed tight into the seatback in front. There is no way that seat in front can recline.

Ah, now I get it. For some reason, I thought it was a matter of girth, not length. An airline pilot friend who is 6'5" corroborates your story.

I'm surprised you've never seen, let alone can envision, someone taller than 6'4". You should go to a college or professional basketball game sometime. You will be astounded.

You'd be more surprised by what I have seen, but failed to comprehend.

 

[bbchien]

Waay back in December 1985 I was riding coach from BOS to Seattle WA to take my second Board Certification exam. I was in the last row of an MD 80. The flight was full. I was in the window seat and the only seat open was the middle seat. Down the aisle appeard this enormous woman. I w as not quick enough. in a FLASH she flips up both armrests and I spend the next 5 hours plastered to the side of the aircraft.

I did not sleep well that night as I had a back ache. Somehow, however I did okay.
I resolved back then, NEVER AGAIN. And I have managed to make it so. First in a sloooow Cessna 205, then two Moonies in succession, and now in the PA 34. NEVER again.

 

[Half Fast]

Down the aisle appeard this enormous woman. I w as not quick enough. in a FLASH she flips up both armrests and I spend the next 5 hours plastered to the side of the aircraft.

I'll see that and raise you.

Similar situation, except I was in the middle seat and the woman could only fit one cheek into her seat (the stew had to bring a seatbelt extender). Then during the flight she got airsick. At least most (?) of it went into the barf bag.

I was never so glad to get off an airplane.

 

[35 AoA]

I am willing to pay $100/hr to upgrade to first. If an ocean is involved, $200/hr.

This is actually a pretty good way of thinking about it. Hadn't put it in those terms before myself, but I like that.

 

[Jim_R]

Waay back in December 1985 I was riding coach from BOS to Seattle WA to take my second Board Certification exam. I was in the last row of an MD 80. The flight was full. I was in the window seat and the only seat open was the middle seat. Down the aisle appeard this enormous woman. I w as not quick enough. in a FLASH she flips up both armrests and I spend the next 5 hours plastered to the side of the aircraft.

I did not sleep well that night as I had a back ache. Somehow, however I did okay.
I resolved back then, NEVER AGAIN. And I have managed to make it so. First in a sloooow Cessna 205, then two Moonies in succession, and now in the PA 34. NEVER again.

As uncomfortable as I was on the 787 in coach, I'm pretty sure it made for a more pleasant Pacific Ocean crossing than I could manage in my Cherokee.

 

[donjohnston]

I am willing to pay $100/hr to upgrade to first. If an ocean is involved, $200/hr. Based on recent nutball airfares I am seeing, I probably need to inflation-adjust those, sigh.

I don't understand the anecdote about flying GA planes that are 40" wide. No coach seat is 20" across that I am aware of. And certainly no airlines offer me a view forward and as many screens to look at I need to measure my "seat pitch" in the front, I bet it smokes coach class also.

We're heading to Australia in August to dive the barrier reef. No way that's going to be in coach. First class was WAY too expensive. So it's business class with lay flat seats. They aren't really long enough for me to actually lay flat but hopefully I'll be able to sleep some.

My first time off the continent.

 

[Albany Tom]

We're heading to Australia in August to dive the barrier reef. No way that's going to be in coach. First class was WAY too expensive. So it's business class with lay flat seats. They aren't really long enough for me to actually lay flat but hopefully I'll be able to sleep some.

My first time off the continent.

Don't fall off the edge!!

 

[Rockymountain]

Maybe the GLP1's will make future air travel more comfortable. Probably not. The airlines will capitalize on the weight loss craze and double chairs will become triple and triples will become quadruples. Anyone seen the standup seat models? One day..... And the workers that will push the cattle onboard until it is tight.

People will still outbid each other for $40 seats. ;-)

This is a real concept.

 

[AvNavCom]

This is a real concept.

I'd rather walk.

 

[Rick A]

I resolved back then, NEVER AGAIN. And I have managed to make it so. First in a sloooow Cessna 205, then two Moonies in succession, and now in the PA 34. NEVER again.

I am fortunate to be able to skip the airlines flying private. The few times I do fly commercial, it usually gives me anxiety. Most of the time is not as bad as I anticipate, but sometimes it’s a little worse. As long as I have a little money and a Medical gonna keep doing it.

Same here. Able to make my own schedule and fly myself.

Early during the creation of a traveling demonstrator / salesman career my left eardrum was perforated in 1983 riding in the back of a People's Express DC-9(?) during a slam dunk approach into Newark where the pressurization didn't agree with that ear (like an icepick). That painful event occurred early in commercial air travel's transition to crowded public cattle cars was evident, even back then.

Decided to bite the bullet and purchase 1/3rd of a Mooney which turned out to be the perfect partnership. Then two more Mooneys on my own. Built the business flying a succession of three Mooneys, mostly east of the Mississippi River, with no more than one or two commercial flights per year out west. Averaged around 225 hours per year in the 80's and 90's, and about 75 to 125 per year throughout the 2000's.

When the weather is really down, learned that pre-planning an 18 hour travel window before needing to be at the destination usually worked wonders to arrive at the destination prior to the appointment. Carried gear and equipment that never would have been logistically possible (or sometimes even legal) on the airlines. Creativity in planning was the key.

Depart or arrive before the weather gets bad. Fly the majority of the trip, rent a car, if necessary finish the trip with Avis. Get a room, divert, or whatever. And (didn't happen often) reschedule the trip, which the people at the destination typically understood because ground and commercial air traffic on their end was likely to be just as bad. The return trip home was flown without the stress of a schedule, and even more enjoyable.

No more commercial CONUS flights for me. Too many horror stories from friends and family. Don't want to repeat the few bad experiences that I've had and really don't care how much money I could save flying commercial, or the increased safety provided by two well-rested and experienced pilots flying multi-million dollar equipment... I really enjoy the freedom of flying myself, on my own schedule.

 

[Larry in TN]

This is a real concept.

There have been a lot of those "real concepts" but they never go anywhere. There are a number of hurdles that they haven't been able to clear.

Evacuation standards can't be met. They still have to evacuate the entire airplane, using only half of the exits, within 90 seconds. Max capacity is limited to the number of passengers that make it out within 90 seconds.

Weight restrictions don't allow significantly more passengers. We already are weight restricted on some routes and have to leave some seats empty. Continue to increase the number of passengers and the airplane becomes restricted more often.

Public acceptance is also a roadblock. The ULCC model isn't profitable in today's market. This would be a UULCC.

Early during the creation of a traveling demonstrator / salesman career my left eardrum was perforated in 1983 riding in the back of a People's Express DC-9(?)

The DC9 had an analog pressurization controller. You had to keep an eye on it or you'd get behind. I suspect your flight crew was late setting the landing field elevation which delayed the beginning of the lowering of the cabin altitude.

 

[Rick A]

The DC9 had an analog pressurization controller. You had to keep an eye on it or you'd get behind. I suspect your flight crew was late setting the landing field elevation which delayed the beginning of the lowering of the cabin altitude.

That flight crew must have forgot about the pressurization controller all the way to the runway. The last 1000' feet or so was a killer. Didn't have a cold or anything except maybe a stray piece of snot somewhere in that ear... paying the price now with significant hearing loss on that side.

 

[Larry in TN]

That flight crew must have forgot about the pressurization controller all the way to the runway. The last 1000' feet or so was a killer.

No.

At top-of-descent, you'd reset the controller to the field elevation, it had been set, on a separate scale, to the cruise altitude. It would then start descending the cabin. If you were late setting landing elevation, the cabin would not descend in time and, when the airplane descended below the current cabin altitude, you would be unpressurized for the remaining of the descent.

With modern controllers, you set landing elevation prior to takeoff and the digital system manages it all for you based on a FL/Cabin Alt schedule. They're even smart enough to realize when you return back to your departure airport and will reset the cabin for landing at your takeoff field elevation.