[rant]Cage free eggs[rant]

Egg prices don't seem to be an issue here. But maybe it's because everything else is so much more expensive than in the rest of the country, you don't notice egg prices.
 
I get Avian Flu is hurting the supply of eggs.
But why is the price of chicken meat also not affected?

Tim
 
Thanks for the updates. Very interesting stuff.

What percentage of US egg production is sold to WTO signatories, and do the restrictions apply to fresh and processed product? Is liquid product irradiated or otherwise treated to kill pathogens? Given that they are eggs, is a heat pasteurization possible?

Second, are there insurance products available to mitigate your risk as a producer?

Just anecdotally, we've heard through some Ag contacts here in MD some of the Canada geese showing up at various rescues with signs of infection and are being euthanized. Our friends with dairy cattle are starting to worry seriously about that migrating bird vector. The fields are covered with them.

I would think another not insignificant problem is how to dispose of litter and carcasses of infected flocks. Can't imagine the litter can be spread as nitrogen fertz.
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
Thanks for the updates. Very interesting stuff.

What percentage of US egg production is sold to WTO signatories, and do the restrictions apply to fresh and processed product? Is liquid product irradiated or otherwise treated to kill pathogens? Given that they are eggs, is a heat pasteurization possible?

Second, are there insurance products available to mitigate your risk as a producer?

Just anecdotally, we've heard through some Ag contacts here in MD some of the Canada geese showing up at various rescues with signs of infection and are being euthanized. Our friends with dairy cattle are starting to worry seriously about that migrating bird vector. The fields are covered with them.

I would think another not insignificant problem is how to dispose of litter and carcasses of infected flocks. Can't imagine the litter can be spread as nitrogen fertz.
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Treat the Canadians just like our bombers were treated in WWII:
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tspear said:
I get Avian Flu is hurting the supply of eggs.
But why is the price of chicken meat also not affected?

Tim
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If you get AI in a broiler house you depopulate, clean it, and can be back in full production when chicks arrive and will have fully grown birds ready for market in 6 - 8 weeks. A layer farm won't be back to full output for at least a year.

Also, there is no part of an egg laying hen that ever ends up in the meat supply. Totally different animals.
 
what happens with the layers....once they time out? Does that meat go somewhere?
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Thanks for the updates. Very interesting stuff.

What percentage of US egg production is sold to WTO signatories, and do the restrictions apply to fresh and processed product? Is liquid product irradiated or otherwise treated to kill pathogens? Given that they are eggs, is a heat pasteurization possible?

Second, are there insurance products available to mitigate your risk as a producer?

Just anecdotally, we've heard through some Ag contacts here in MD some of the Canada geese showing up at various rescues with signs of infection and are being euthanized. Our friends with dairy cattle are starting to worry seriously about that migrating bird vector. The fields are covered with them.

I would think another not insignificant problem is how to dispose of litter and carcasses of infected flocks. Can't imagine the litter can be spread as nitrogen fertz.
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US egg exports amount to 3 - 4% of production in a normal year, mostly to Canada and Mexico. Broiler meat is a much higher percentage and vastly higher total dollars. $4B - $10B annually. There are pasteurization technologies available for shell eggs and all egg products are pasteurized. Irradiation has not been marketplace acceptable.




Mass bird die offs have been happening since this outbreak began. It is a serious concern.

The carcasses are generally composted with litter and a carbon source. The piles are temperature monitored to ensure virus elimination and are tested before being utilized as fertilizer.
 
Id be curious what @James_Dean thought of the secretary's 5 point plan that she laid out the other day.
 
Racerx said:
Id be curious what @James_Dean thought of the secretary's 5 point plan that she laid out the other day.
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I would've liked stronger language about vaccination, but it was several steps in the right direction. I'm a little concerned about the food safety aspects of the imports, but I think that can be safely mitigated in this time of crisis.

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That is me with the Secretary last week. They seem to be listening and learning.
 
James_Dean said:
I would've liked stronger language about vaccination, but it was several steps in the right direction. I'm a little concerned about the food safety aspects of the imports, but I think that can be safely mitigated in this time of crisis.

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That is me with the Secretary last week. They seem to be listening and learning.
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I also thought the vaccination part was weak sauce and sounded like a bit of an afterthought. At least how she said it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That's good to know. When you mentioned penises, I immediately thought of myself.
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tspear said:
I get Avian Flu is hurting the supply of eggs.
But why is the price of chicken meat also not affected?

Tim
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Because layers and broilers are different . Eggs vs meat.
In this state if you buy an egg at a grocery store,it most likely was produced buy a Hutterite colony.
Met a fellow who flew in to local airport in his personal jet. He was a chicken brooder sales fellow from Canada. He had a couple Hutterite elders with him. They toured his equipment company and bought equipment to raise birds under contract to Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Most if not all the layers here are gassed and composted after egg production drops. Most likely because of distance to other processing or disposal facilities.
 
Growing up on a farm in the 40’s, we had free range,cage free chickens . Dad used to shoot “chicken hawks”
My sisters and I were the egg collectors. The chickens layed where ever they felt like. Some of the eggs were a bit out dated by the time we found them. There was no refrigeration or electricity on the farm back then. If eggs were washed because of dirt , mother would dip them in water glass. An egg not washed will stay fresh longer then a washed one. Our cooling system was a rope and bucket in the cistern. Cream not churned to butter was also placed in bucket in water cistern.
 
Southpaw said:
Growing up on a farm in the 40’s, we had free range,cage free chickens . Dad used to shoot “chicken hawks”
My sisters and I were the egg collectors. The chickens layed where ever they felt like. Some of the eggs were a bit out dated by the time we found them. There was no refrigeration or electricity on the farm back then. If eggs were washed because of dirt , mother would dip them in water glass. An egg not washed will stay fresh longer then a washed one. Our cooling system was a rope and bucket in the cistern. Cream not churned to butter was also placed in bucket in water cistern.
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I’m early 50s, and I remember this as being pretty common amongst my grandma and neighbors in Appalachia in the late 70s and early 80s. I have zero doubt that a lot of families still live like this.
 
I saw on the news today rfk jr made statements of his/the agency he runs position against vaccination of chickens.
 
Or else we get 4 legged chickens

Screenshot_20250306-194310.png
 
I met a farmer that raised three legged chickens. I ask him how they tasted and he said he didn't know as they hadn't been able to catch one yet ...
 
Why are egg prices coming down in the past few weeks? Have the chickens started laying again? Have people stopped eating them? I understand that there are two ways to market a product. High volume low price, low volume high price. Have the producers finally found their pricing high point? And now they can cut their operations down, produce less, and still make the same profits? I'm probably wrong, but this egg thing smells of dishonesty.
 
Where I live, a lot of egg items have disappeared from menu's, and there is a surcharge for egg items.

Customers are eating the non egg alternatives. That is my work around for high egg prices.

At home, my wife and I have bought one dozen eggs in the last 2 months.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Went to the grocery store last night. The prices had been removed from the doors to the Egg coolers. I guess if you have to ask????

Also

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I guess with no end in sight, they're taking a page from gas stations: digital signs coming.

That said, my local ShopRite has been using digital shelf tags for some time -- price updates can get pushed through store-wide via WiFi in seconds, coinciding with changes to the register database. They don't even have to suffer selling out what's already marked on the floor if prices rise dramatically enough. I don't know if anyone has been caught out with a price increase between shelf and register.

geezer said:
Where I live, a lot of egg items have disappeared from menu's, and there is a surcharge for egg items.

Customers are eating the non egg alternatives. That is my work around for high egg prices.

At home, my wife and I have bought one dozen eggs in the last 2 months.
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I started cooking with more eggs some time ago -- french toast for dinner was the only way I could sneak some protein into my VERY picky eater DD. A couple of years back when meat prices spiked, I would make an egg-based meal for family dinner ~twice a month as an alternative. Now egg prices have spiked -- its enough to make one conspiracy-curious. Reading JD here helps keep me level -- Thanks!
 
jime said:
Why are egg prices coming down in the past few weeks? Have the chickens started laying again? Have people stopped eating them? I understand that there are two ways to market a product
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If I was a betting man I’d wager it is future delivery contracts have started to expire. I’m pretty sure it was addressed in this actual thread the first time around, but like any commodity sold in future deliveries, if you can’t provide it on delivery date, you have to buy it to cover your contract. I’m guessing the huge reduction in supply hit a bunch of the producers at the same time, they have contracts to fill and no eggs to do it so they had to buy, and markets being exactly like auctions, the various suppliers were bidding them up to cover their obligations. (Remember when oil went negative in spring of 2020? Deliveries…many speculators were in the market with no intention of ever accepting deliveries, they were speculating on futures, I’d bet the same happens in everything traded on boards of trade, throw in some (most) speculators leveraging their position, and even small upsets can snowball into big price swings.
 
Flatiowa said:
If I was a betting man I’d wager it is future delivery contracts have started to expire. I’m pretty sure it was addressed in this actual thread the first time around, but like any commodity sold in future deliveries, if you can’t provide it on delivery date, you have to buy it to cover your contract. I’m guessing the huge reduction in supply hit a bunch of the producers at the same time, they have contracts to fill and no eggs to do it so they had to buy, and markets being exactly like auctions, the various suppliers were bidding them up to cover their obligations. (Remember when oil went negative in spring of 2020? Deliveries…many speculators were in the market with no intention of ever accepting deliveries, they were speculating on futures, I’d bet the same happens in everything traded on boards of trade, throw in some (most) speculators leveraging their position, and even small upsets can snowball into big price swings.
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That delivery contact angle sounds plausible to me. Who knows? Me, I remain a skeptic. I have a very difficult time believing that a bird flu is the sole reason for the massive spike in prices and the shortages. All this talk about vaccines being the ultimate solution. Can't quite get behind it. Today, after the dust has cleared, the truth behind the Covid vaccination has finally been exposed. And whatever happened to nature and her ability to combat disease? You find birds with the disease, and you completely wipe out the entire group? That doesn't make sense to me. Why not isolate the group and let nature work it out instead of wiping everything out all at once? There are way too many things surrounding this egg shortage that don't add up. There are rumors about how the government assistance programs pay out more if you simply wipe out your operation, rather than let it slowly succumb to the disease. I don't know about the accuracy of anything that I've said or heard. But I do know. I'm not onboard with everything that we're being told about this situation. I do wish somebody would do the come clean, and back it up.
 
jime said:
I do wish somebody would do the come clean, and back it up.
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Come clean with what? Your conspiracy theories?

Bird flu isn't the sole reason for the spike. Energy prices and inflation also play a part.

Read through some of what @James_Dean had said regarding this subject. He's laid it all out. No pun intended.

Regarding vaccines, almost all chicken's get the Marek's vaccination.
 
"The chicken's vaccine is Marek's."

"Almost all chickens get..."

Sorry, but this was an item of discussion currently.
 
Racerx said:
Read through some of what @James_Dean had said regarding this subject. He's laid it all out. No pun intended.
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I can tell you hands-down that Eggman (i.e. @James_Dean) is a straight shooter. He's not the kind of person to be covering anything up to make a quick buck and I can guarantee he is more focused on being long-term sustainable than trying to find a way to quick cash-in on any theoretical "kill the flock and we'll pay you" schemes.

He's a good egg (pun intended).
 
"Let nature tke its course"

Maryland had flocks of crows thatgthered in wooded areas by the thousands. Two of those were close to our house. In the evening, they flew over our house in groups of 50 to 100 on their way to the park.

Then avian flu came, and in just a couple of years, the nightly gathering became less than 100, and now, just 10 or 20. We hardly notice them flying over.

So if we had 1000 laying hens, and all but 20 died, and without us harvesting any eggs, the population of laying hens remained at 20, how many eggs can we sell, compared to when we had 1000?

All the social birds took a big hit, and never recovered, starlings, grackles, etc.
 
Racerx said:
Come clean with what? Your conspiracy theories?

Bird flu isn't the sole reason for the spike. Energy prices and inflation also play a part.

Read through some of what @James_Dean had said regarding this subject. He's laid it all out. No pun intended.

Regarding vaccines, almost all chicken's get the Marek's vaccination.
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Frankly I'm amazed that anyone could read this thread, with the detailed input from @James_Dean, and come to the conclusion that there's some conspiracy on vaccines and killing flocks of revenue-generating birds because the government is paying them more than the flock is worth as producers. You have multiple verified/boots-on-the-ground sources in this group that have about as much knowledge on the operations side of the egg industry as you can get, and then still have some yahoo dismissing the data in favor of "I don't know about the accuracy of anything that I've said or heard" but is still inclined to believe it. You just can't make this kind of stuff up, lol.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Frankly I'm amazed that anyone could read this thread, with the detailed input from @James_Dean, and come to the conclusion that there's some conspiracy on vaccines and killing flocks of revenue-generating birds because the government is paying them more than the flock is worth as producers. You have multiple verified/boots-on-the-ground sources in this group that have about as much knowledge on the operations side of the egg industry as you can get, and then still have some yahoo dismissing the data in favor of "I don't know about the accuracy of anything that I've said or heard" but is still inclined to believe it. You just can't make this kind of stuff up, lol.
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As always, XKCD addressed this. Conspiracy theory infatuation has become an identity for far too many people...

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No sense in letting facts, logic, and reality stand in the way of a good gut feeling conspiracy…..
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
As always, XKCD addressed this. Conspiracy theory infatuation has become an identity for far too many people...

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First....I'd like to say that I've read this entire thread a couple of times....and am impressed with James Dean's input. But why are there some of you attacking me because I question some of the things that I'm hearing? Instead, please explain the government programs with regard to the rules and the rewards to the farmer when these flocks are killed. Please explain the vaccines. Where do they come from? Who pays for them? What research is behind them? Who profits from them? Who has the answers? There is no conspiracy theory here, simply someone looking for honest and truthful answers. Your personal attacks are not necessary.
 
Simple facts:

A friend raises fertile eggs.

One morning he went to harvest eggs, and found a number of dead or very sick chickens, so entered the house with a large bucket and removed all of them, to his incinerator (standard method of destroying sick birds).

Harvested the eggs, and went to breakfast.

Evening egg harvest, many more sick and dead birds, cleared all with any indication of poor health.

Next morning many dead birds, hundreds, by the following morning he had no living birds.

Disassembling to mostly bare walls, a series of cleaning and disinfecting steps, very labor intensive, and specialized, every item separately done by certified contractors, and chemically treated the land around the house.

After nearly 6 months, he was certified clean, and received new hens and roosters.

The loan he needed for all this was from his retirement account, and moved his retirement date out 5 years.

This happened in a previous bird flu event, he is now in his 80's, and has not repaid the loan.

He is not retired, either. That was the end of his plan to retire at 70.
 
My question would be why does the US and other countries wash eggs, thereby requiring the eggs to be constantly refrigerated vs other countries that leave the membrane intact requiring no refrigeration?
 
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