[rant]Cage free eggs[rant]

pfarber said:
My question would be why does the US and other countries wash eggs, thereby requiring the eggs to be constantly refrigerated vs other countries that leave the membrane intact requiring no refrigeration?
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Answered earlier in the thread. Boils down to "tradition" at this point. The US and some other countries diverged and started washing eggs in the 1970s. The egg washing and refrigeration actually lead to longer shelf life and safer eggs for longer periods.

Tim
 
jime said:
First....I'd like to say that I've read this entire thread a couple of times....and am impressed with James Dean's input. But why are there some of you attacking me because I question some of the things that I'm hearing? Instead, please explain the government programs with regard to the rules and the rewards to the farmer when these flocks are killed. Please explain the vaccines. Where do they come from? Who pays for them? What research is behind them? Who profits from them? Who has the answers? There is no conspiracy theory here, simply someone looking for honest and truthful answers. Your personal attacks are not necessary.
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Where to vaccines come from? Pharmaceutical companies.
Who pays for them? Chicken farmers, initially. Ultimately the consumer.
Who profits from them? Pharmaceutical companies (from sale of said vaccine), chicken farmers (from not having to lose hundred of thousands/millions in dead birds/decontamination costs), and the consumer (by paying less for eggs since supply disruption is greatly reduced).
 
jime said:
Instead, please explain the government programs with regard to the rules and the rewards to the farmer when these flocks are killed. Please explain the vaccines. Where do they come from? Who pays for them? What research is behind them? Who profits from them? Who has the answers? There is no conspiracy theory here, simply someone looking for honest and truthful answers.
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I think the beginning of finding truthful understanding of the situation and the rationality of the creation of indemnity programs should begin with reading this, (and note the publication date was pre Covid.. by a lot, 2006, when it was an emerging threat).


Then also consider the ramifications on food security, eggs have always been a significant source of cheap protein and a very efficient way of converting carbohydrates from simple grains into protein needed for proper body function and child development. It is a major staple food source for the world, particularly as a historically large portion of protein in the diet of economically struggling households.

I honestly believe that it is a situation of terrible circumstances, with major ramifications, being dealt with in the best way they can by the smartest people in their respected fields, (or was until the “probationary workers” that were brought in to help address the situation were fired) and the last thing that will improve the situation is rumor mills of vauge “I don’t know, something seems fishy” conspiracy theories spread around the internet.

Edit: and before somebody tries to call in the black helicopters on me, the link is publicly available information, available and found through a simple internet search.
 
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I find it HILARIOUS that the difference between AA, A and B is cosmetic.

All that time/fuel/energy to refrigerate eggs so they look pretty on the plate.


I've eaten eggs in Asia, Europe, and the US and have never noticed an eggs 'firmness' lol Sometimes our country is just plain retarded.
 
Flatiowa said:
If I was a betting man I’d wager it is future delivery contracts have started to expire. I’m pretty sure it was addressed in this actual thread the first time around, but like any commodity sold in future deliveries, if you can’t provide it on delivery date, you have to buy it to cover your contract. I’m guessing the huge reduction in supply hit a bunch of the producers at the same time, they have contracts to fill and no eggs to do it so they had to buy, and markets being exactly like auctions, the various suppliers were bidding them up to cover their obligations. (Remember when oil went negative in spring of 2020? Deliveries…many speculators were in the market with no intention of ever accepting deliveries, they were speculating on futures, I’d bet the same happens in everything traded on boards of trade, throw in some (most) speculators leveraging their position, and even small upsets can snowball into big price swings.
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Eggs haven't been traded like that since, I believe, the early 70's. Prices are dropping for four reasons -

1. They always drop this time of year. Something about Easter and seasonal egg demand....
2. Retail prices have caught up to wholesale prices and got to a price point that curtailed demand.
3. The current administration fast tracked imports from a few eligible countries. Not much in the grand scheme, but egg consumption tends to be inelastic.
4. Farmers have been building additional capacity through this crisis. Farmers are nothing if not good a curing prosperity, and when this flu crisis ends I predict some ugly times. See that trough in 2016 and 2017 after the last bird flu crisis in 2015? Many farmers weren't even covering feed costs during those low periods.

That inelasticity of egg supply and demand along with the stickiness of supplier and customer creates a market where if you as a producer have one egg too many it isn't worth much, and if you have one egg too few you'll pay a lot to get it. Add a little repopulation, marginal demand destruction, and slight increase in supply and wholesale prices fell by half.

Here's 10 years of wholesale farm price(roughly).
Screenshot 2025-03-29 160925.png
 
jime said:
That delivery contact angle sounds plausible to me. Who knows? Me, I remain a skeptic. I have a very difficult time believing that a bird flu is the sole reason for the massive spike in prices and the shortages. All this talk about vaccines being the ultimate solution. Can't quite get behind it. Today, after the dust has cleared, the truth behind the Covid vaccination has finally been exposed. And whatever happened to nature and her ability to combat disease? You find birds with the disease, and you completely wipe out the entire group? That doesn't make sense to me. Why not isolate the group and let nature work it out instead of wiping everything out all at once? There are way too many things surrounding this egg shortage that don't add up. There are rumors about how the government assistance programs pay out more if you simply wipe out your operation, rather than let it slowly succumb to the disease. I don't know about the accuracy of anything that I've said or heard. But I do know. I'm not onboard with everything that we're being told about this situation. I do wish somebody would do the come clean, and back it up.
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Hello? I'm that guy. What do you want to know?

BTW, your assertions sound just like the guy on TV who says the plane didn't stall because the engine sounded fine.
 
CJones said:
I can tell you hands-down that Eggman (i.e. @James_Dean) is a straight shooter. He's not the kind of person to be covering anything up to make a quick buck and I can guarantee he is more focused on being long-term sustainable than trying to find a way to quick cash-in on any theoretical "kill the flock and we'll pay you" schemes.

He's a good egg (pun intended).
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Very nice of you.

Jime- "Instead, please explain the government programs with regard to the rules and the rewards to the farmer when these flocks are killed. Please explain the vaccines. Where do they come from? Who pays for them? What research is behind them? Who profits from them? Who has the answers? There is no conspiracy theory here, simply someone looking for honest and truthful answers." Sorry, I didn't go back far enough to find this line of questioning.

The specific law is here -


General APHIS pamphlet on how it works and what is covered.



For us the process starts with our hen house caretakers. They know that any increase in daily mortality above a certain threshold must be reported to our company veterinarians. We also look for any abrupt changes in behavior such as birds sitting down or changes in vocalization. The company vet will start an incident report detailing the specifics and will generally order the farm manager to do a post mortem to look for clinical signs such a internal hemorrhaging, nodes in the proventriculus, and swelling. Swabs will be taken from the daily mortality for PCR testing at a state lab. Usually this is done concurrently with a call to the state vet. With any clinical signs the state vet will place a strict legal quarantine on the farm while testing results are completed. If there are no clinical signs there might be a slight delay in placing the quarantine to await further surveillance. Once you get a PCR positive with a sufficiently low cT count and clinical signs, you will get USDA APHIS involved to start the indemnity and depop process. Concurrently the sample from the positive PCR test will be sent to a federal lab for dual confirmation and genetic testing and typing. Things start moving very fast at this point because the exercise is to keep the virus plume from growing and infecting any other premises or animals. A depop plan is crafted, documents are signed with the government describing your plan to include disposal and virus elimination, and only then can the depop work begin.

So far there have been vaccines developed at the expense of the federal government, but some private companies have also done development work. None have been deployed to the field. There are several different vaccine technologies, but none in current development that I'm aware of use mRNA. If deployed I'm sure there will be profit for the vaccination companies as you see in human health situations, however I would hope that a cost benefit analysis would be done that would show the net cost to the consumer would be very positive.

As to the indemnity program and any farmer purposefully infecting their farm? Imagine you were a car dealer and I offered you this proposition -

1. I get to buy every car on your lot for what you paid for it plus some of the costs you would've incurred keeping them on the lot for the next year. Unless you're a Porsche(Free range), Ferrari(Organic), or even a Cadillac(cage free) dealer in which case you're not going to get paid enough unless you go through a very arduous appraisal and appeal process which may or may not be successful.
2. I will offer you a flat rate to destroy every car on the lot that I just purchased. This rate may or may not cover your costs depending upon your particular situation. Sucks if you're in California. I'm not coming with any equipment or assistance other than SME's who may or may not be more knowledgeable than you on how to crush cars, and monitors to make sure none of your car parts end up in the public thoroughfare.
3. I will offer you a flat rate to clean up the mess after you've destroyed all your cars, sweep the lot, mop your floors, and sanitize your bathrooms etc. This rate may or may not cover your costs. If I find a busted piece of glass bigger than a quarter you get to try again.

After all this work is done(lets say 90 days) you can start buying back inventory to sell, but it will take you 12 months at a minimum to get back to a full lot. Want to keep your staff? Your call, but they're not paying for it. There is very little in the way of a BI component.


Not to mention the horrific emotional toll of an outbreak. No farmer wants this. Ever.
 
Hey! I just noticed that in two days I get to celebrate 20 years of being a small part of this community. I probably had 250 hours of warrior and saratoga time then and was an egg plant manager. Time flies when you're having(at least half the time) fun. I'm currently planeless and haven't been PIC in over two years but did work through a 310 and 425 and another 1500 hours or so in that time. Working on changing that though....waiting on OKC to get their response. Wanted to get my SI for sleep apnea removed after weight loss(160 lbs!), septoplasty, and a new sleep study. Resulted in a deferral which is taking forever. Still trying to decide if my future is a 441, 501, or 550.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Frankly I'm amazed that anyone could read this thread, with the detailed input from @James_Dean, and come to the conclusion that there's some conspiracy on vaccines and killing flocks of revenue-generating birds because the government is paying them more than the flock is worth as producers. You have multiple verified/boots-on-the-ground sources in this group that have about as much knowledge on the operations side of the egg industry as you can get, and then still have some yahoo dismissing the data in favor of "I don't know about the accuracy of anything that I've said or heard" but is still inclined to believe it. You just can't make this kind of stuff up, lol.
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There's people listening to satellite radio about the earth being flat. An unfathomable level of irony.

So not believing in bird flu makes sense in that respect.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Frankly I'm amazed that anyone could read this thread, with the detailed input from @James_Dean, and come to the conclusion that there's some conspiracy on vaccines and killing flocks of revenue-generating birds because the government is paying them more than the flock is worth as producers.
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The only logical conclusion is that @James_Dean is a shill constructed by The Algorithm.
 
GeorgeC said:
The only logical conclusion is that @James_Dean is a shill constructed by The Algorithm.
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If so, he's a pretty convincing one given that I've:

1) Met him in person on multiple occasions, including
2) Instructing him in his 310 when he bought it
3) Stayed at his house
4) Got to fly with him in his 425

But then again, maybe I'm simply a program in The Matrix enacted to control pilots. If so, I should probably be overwritten, I'm doing a pretty bad job of it.
 
catmandu said:
Two burnin' and one turnin', nice!
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5 leg cat with a bit of a snout. Gotta love how it manages chocks on the nose wheel but can't handle a simple license plate. And zoom in on the "eyes" of the cat sitting on the bumper :eek:
 
SoonerAviator said:
Cat's giving off some serious Event Horizon vibes, lol.
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AI images are seriously creepy when you start looking at details. I can only imagine that this is somewhat how the world looks to a schizophrenic with visual hallucinations. Stuff that looks real but doesn't make any sense.
 
@James_Dean

Congrats on the weight loss! I am very slowly losing weight, at my lowest in roughly thirty years and longest I have stayed here. Problem is I have another 50 to my target....

Curious, has any significant research or effort been made to find ways to better handle the excess supply of eggs you are predicting? For example, a former co-worker grew up on a blueberry farm and the family still owned it. He discussed how there are wholesalers who purchase huge quantities of blueberries when prices are low and freeze the blueberries to sell later. They can hold the frozen blueberries for large scale industrial cooking upwards to two or three years. Really fascinating how the industry has adapted to annual production variations of the supply.

Tim
 
tspear said:
ways to better handle the excess supply of eggs you are predicting?
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I'm sure powdered eggs and pasteurized liquid eggs can buffer and absorb the oversupply.
Maybe the chesse and veggie omelet MRE (AKA the vomelet) will make a return.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Where to vaccines come from? Pharmaceutical companies.
Who pays for them? Chicken farmers, initially. Ultimately the consumer.
Who profits from them? Pharmaceutical companies (from sale of said vaccine), chicken farmers (from not having to lose hundred of thousands/millions in dead birds/decontamination costs), and the consumer (by paying less for eggs since supply disruption is greatly reduced).
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Here's the funny part: Not far from our house is a facility that produces vaccines for animals. Guess what they use huge quantities of for vaccine production?


Eggs.
 
DaleB said:
Here's the funny part: Not far from our house is a facility that produces vaccines for animals. Guess what they use huge quantities of for vaccine production?


Eggs.
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www.businessinsider.com

The US government has possibly millions of chickens in secret locations laying eggs year round for flu vaccines. The exact number and location are a matter of national security. Here's what we know about the chickens.

In the most recent flu season, 140 million eggs could have been used for vaccines. And hens only lay a single egg each day.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
 
Racerx said:
If they were I wouldn't want to mess with the hive they came from.

Here's bee eggs. Little white specks. 3 days to hatch into larvaeView attachment 139518. Not sure if they'd be considered cage free
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Definitely, I’ve raised bees for 18 years now, best “livestock” I’ve ever had. Most of the year you don’t have to feed them, tend to them, or even own or rent the land they graze on. Plus it’s one of the few (if not only) agriculturally produced commodities that has not been industrialized in production practices. Yes there are some big outfits, but nothing “industrial” level. Best part is I have zero marketing costs, word of mouth spreads faster than I have expanded. Every year I think this will be the year I will have some carry over, and every year I’m sold out of honey by march..
 
Racerx said:
If they were I wouldn't want to mess with the hive they came from...
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Speaking of hives, thought of you last night when the news talked about the prevalence of hive theft. Even more interesting (to me), it's not like you can take a hive to the local pawn shop and turn it into cash. This means beekeepers are stealing from other beekeepers.
 
Mahneuvers said:
Speaking of hives, thought of you last night when the news talked about the prevalence of hive theft. Even more interesting (to me), it's not like you can take a hive to the local pawn shop and turn it into cash. This means beekeepers are stealing from other beekeepers.
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maybe the police will set up a sting operation and when they get caught they'll get beeten up
 
Mahneuvers said:
This means beekeepers are stealing from other beekeepers.
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There are a lot of “nomads” in the contract pollination buisness. They travel around the country as a full time gig chasing pollen flows. Those stolen hives may very well be 1,000 miles away before they are even noticed being gone. Add in spring time there is a big market for “package bees”. Two pounds of bees and a queen will bring close to $200, and if they can harvest some honey or use the equipment (another $500).. thieves will be thieves. Trackers hidden in the combs have started to be used to combat it.
 
Flatiowa said:
...Trackers hidden in the combs have started to be used to combat it.
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I guess the often remote nature of hive placement makes theft a little easier. The news mentioned beekeepers now using AirTags. This made me wonder if there are scanners which would allow thieves to easily find hidden trackers. I'm guessing there is.
 
Mahneuvers said:
I guess the often remote nature of hive placement makes theft a little easier. The news mentioned beekeepers now using AirTags. This made me wonder if there are scanners which would allow thieves to easily find hidden trackers. I'm guessing there is.
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Air tags will alert an iphone user not associated with the tag that one is tracking them.
 
Flatiowa said:
There are a lot of “nomads” in the contract pollination buisness. They travel around the country as a full time gig chasing pollen flows. Those stolen hives may very well be 1,000 miles away before they are even noticed being gone. Add in spring time there is a big market for “package bees”. Two pounds of bees and a queen will bring close to $200, and if they can harvest some honey or use the equipment (another $500).. thieves will be thieves. Trackers hidden in the combs have started to be used to combat it.
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I can only imagine the difficulty in weighing bees precisely enough to be able to confidently sell them. It's tough enough getting my cat to sit on a scale.
 
Baked Potato said:
I can only imagine the difficulty in weighing bees precisely enough to be able to confidently sell them. It's tough enough getting my cat to sit on a scale.
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Put them in a box. Weight does not change if they are flying or not.
 
TCABM said:
Air tags will alert an iphone user not associated with the tag that one is tracking them.
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My wife put an AirTag in my car recently claiming it was so she'd know if I had already left Costco, grocery store etc. if she had forgotten to put something on the list. Not living in the Apple ecosystem, I didn't know it was there until my daughter asked me about it when she borrowed my car. My wife never said anything. I told her I don't think she'd be so forgiving if I were hiding tracking devices on her :lol:
 
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