Question for the engineers and DIY'ers

Salty

Salty

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Salty
I've got a couple gates in my vinyl picket fence. They are basically just a stretch of the fencing with big hinges on one side, and a gravity latch on the other side.

image.jpg IMG_3645.jpeg

They have worked great 80% of the year for the decade I've used them. But for 20% of the year when it's below 40 deg, the damn fence shrinks enough that the latch doesn't engage. If I adjust it just perfectly it might work until it drops to 30 deg, and then it still won't work.

I'm fed up. Not sure if I want to replace the gate itself with something that doesn't change so much with temperature or come up with something more clever for the latch.

Looking for ideas.
 
I figure when the gate shrinks, the s-shaped rod with two screws is too short?

I’d take it off and make a new, longer one.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I figure when the gate shrinks, the s-shaped rod with two screws is too short?

I’d take it off and make a new, longer one.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it also tend to misalign in other ways as well, so I’m thinking that’s only a partial solution.
 
I wonder if there are some magnetic solutions that don’t require a precise fit
 
Salty said:
Looking for ideas.
Click to expand...
How much shrinkage is there dimension-wise?
By doesn't engage, you mean the gate bar won't slide in, or that the gravity hook doesn't slide over the bar?
 
Salty said:
Yes, but it also tend to misalign in other ways as well, so I’m thinking that’s only a partial solution.
Click to expand...
Mount the latch plate on springs, instead of using screws that attach it rigidly to the fence. The springs will give you two degrees of freedom for stuff to align. Adjust spring length as required.
 
Bell206 said:
How much shrinkage is there dimension-wise?
By doesn't engage, you mean the gate bar won't slide in, or that the gravity hook doesn't slide over the bar?
Click to expand...
More than an inch believe it or not.

In the picture on the right, that is at 50 degrees. This morning when it was 40 degrees, the little knob on the left of the bar was far enough to the right to jam.

But it also is lined up perfectly in the vertical when it's 70 deg or more, but ends up being too low when it's 50 or less. I can live with that personally, but when someone else goes through the gate, if it doesn't self latch, they don't bother pushing it a little to get it to latch...
 
I would be surprised if it is the gate itself is changing its length with temp enough to be an issue. I would not be surprised if it didn't have something to do with the fence sections on either side of the gateposts pulling on the gateposts because the next posts over they are attached to are moving because the ground is moving. Looks like the brackets attaching the fence sections to the gateposts are slotted. Maybe leave the attachment screws slightly loose so the fence sections can move without them applying pressure to the gate posts.
 
bdtaz said:
I would be surprised if it is the gate itself is changing its length with temp enough to be an issue. I would not be surprised if it didn't have something to do with the fence sections on either side of the gateposts pulling on the gateposts because the next posts over they are attached to are moving because the ground is moving. Looks like the brackets attaching the fence sections to the gateposts are slotted. Maybe leave the attachment screws slightly loose so the fence sections can move without them applying pressure to the gate posts.
Click to expand...

Yes, very true. The posts are probably both being pulled from each other as well as the gate itself shrinking. This is a good point to consider.

I'm reluctant to loosen the screws since we do get high winds, but that might be an easy answer.
 
The posts that support the gate across my driveway tend to move between winter and summer which misalign things.. But the temperature differences in the Detroit area are a lot larger - also, they don't move enough to change the gap by more than an inch.

What's inside the posts at each end of the gate? Filling with concrete would make them less flexible, but would be hard to undo if it doesn't work.
 
Loosinating these screws a bit might reduce how much the post gets pushed around by the fence - but you still may need to make the posts stiffer

1762890145098.png

edit:
Oops Mr. Bdtaz already suggested unloosing the screws.
 
Salty said:
I've got a couple gates in my vinyl picket fence. They are basically just a stretch of the fencing with big hinges on one side, and a gravity latch on the other side.

View attachment 147079 View attachment 147080

They have worked great 80% of the year for the decade I've used them. But for 20% of the year when it's below 40 deg, the damn fence shrinks enough that the latch doesn't engage. If I adjust it just perfectly it might work until it drops to 30 deg, and then it still won't work.

I'm fed up. Not sure if I want to replace the gate itself with something that doesn't change so much with temperature or come up with something more clever for the latch.

Looking for ideas.
Click to expand...
Try loosening some screws a tad bit. Give it some breathing room. That has worked for me.
 
Your posts on either side of the gate should have a solid piece of wood in them that extends down below the frost line and is either compacted or set in concrete. Your fence growing or shrinking shouldn’t move either of those two posts and change your bare spacing or alignment. If it is then you need to set new posts. Everything else will just be a bandaid.
 
I'm reminded of the gates in Williamsburg, VA
look up Cannonball Gate closer for other examples and that is a link to some directions I found while looking for a photo

here's a random pic of one that I mined of the web

That's what I would do. You'd have to modify the jamb side to have something for the gate to slam against even when the shrinkage happens, and I suppose that would close off your opening a bit, but you'd not have to worry about latch alignment ever again.

I lived there many years ago and always admired those things. Liked it so much that when I was there visiting sometime after I moved away, I bought one from the gift shop there. I've carted that thing around for decades now hoping that someday I'd have a gate appropriate to put it on. Still have it in my attic!
1762910337992.png
 
Salty said:
Yes, but it also tend to misalign in other ways as well, so I’m thinking that’s only a partial solution.
Click to expand...

Only use one screw to hold a longer one on. Make it a long thru-screw so the bar can pivot up and down and also hold in shear without ripping off.
 
I think I've seen a larger version of that same kind of latch on farm road gates made out of maybe 2-3" or so pipe, many years ago. No idea if they still make them. But the larger latches have a longer bolt and larger ramp, so they can be out of alignment by several inches and still close easily. Thinking that's because cows lean on things and move them around, but it could just as easily be people moving the gate posts when they swung them or bumped them.

Anyway, long story short I'd suggest looking for a much larger latch for a vehicle gate.

And thinking back, most farm gate latches I remember were either a length of chain wrapped around the gate and post, or a single loop of steel that would fit over the end post and gate. The latches in the first post were nice, and quick, but unusual.
 
Put a thin rod in the ground next to each post so that you can see where the movement is. Then you know what to fix.
 
It got nice and cold again last night so I tested this morning and having the screws loose helped, but only with some work, which again, I don't mind doing at all, but when others use the gate they don't bother and leave it swinging in the breeze.

I was able to tighten them up at the right spot to make them work at this temp. I suspect I'll have to adjust them every time the weather changes, but honestly, I can probably live with that.
 
Salty said:
It got nice and cold again last night so I tested this morning and having the screws loose helped, but only with some work, which again, I don't mind doing at all, but when others use the gate they don't bother and leave it swinging in the breeze.

I was able to tighten them up at the right spot to make them work at this temp. I suspect I'll have to adjust them every time the weather changes, but honestly, I can probably live with that.
Click to expand...

Does said fence/lock need to keep dogs in/out?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Surely there’s a more practical solution?
I was thinking he could hollow out the structural members of the gate, use this as ducting which would connect to a mini-split with heat strips; keep that gate at a constant 72°F all year round?
Click to expand...
Maybe run some sort of brace between the two gate posts so they can’t move. The gate should swing easily all year long but you’ll have to limbo every time you want to use it.
 
Salty said:
I can live with that personally,
Click to expand...
Even grinding the bar end down and installing spring hinges will be a band-aid as mentioned. I think a more permanent fix would be move the expansion area to another area on the fence and secure the gate supports so it operates properly.
 
If it’s the fence sections themselves that are pushing or pulling the gate posts out of plumb, maybe there’s a way to create some sort of expansion joint where they attach?

Edit: closer looks at the photos show that bracket with the screws run in them. Do you think loosening those screws so the fence sections can just float would work?

Edit again: and now that I’ve read post #24 more closely I see you already considered that. So, basically, I got nothing.
 
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