Putting CamGuard to the Test

Daleandee

Daleandee

Final Approach
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Dale Andee
Larry Nelson does oil analysis and is in the midst of testing CamGuard in both certified and experimental airplanes. The results thus far are impressive:

 
Let me be the first to proclaim it is snake oil!! lol
But I use it. Does it work or help? I really have no idea. I use it because I run a H2AD engine and any extra insurance I can get is welcome. I fly it so often I am probably wasting my money.

Sorry I have no interest in watching another oil additive opinion video.

I tore it down and put back together a 0-320 H2AD engine that only flew 9 hrs in 10 years that looked real good inside with 1700 hrs. I am sure cam guard was not used in the last 25 years . I flew it for another 100 hrs until the replacement engine came in.

I have never used a additive in the many racing engines I have built from motorcycles to cars and even work trucks engines.
I have been maintaining a small fleet of trucks and light trucks since 1983 and have never used additives in the oil.

So tired of oil additive tests as I have been a engine builder and racer for many years. I have seen many come and go?
Is slick 50 still around?
Image018.jpg
 
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A few years ago I read a detailed article about Camguard. It made a believer out of me and I use it.
 
Based on how much the results of my oil analysis have varied over the years, it seems like this is well within the margin of error. I remain unconvinced.

In addition, this was also my understanding of cam guard:
Dana said:
Camguard is intended to prevent corrosion on steel surfaces (particularly cams) while the engine is not running.
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so I'm a bit confused why hours on the engine is the metric here. I don't see how oil analysis based on hours running is measuring the quoted benefit at all.
 
yup.....another believer here. Phillips 20w50 x/c with CamGuard ;)
 
I don't know what to think but camguard is relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things so I use it. Probably what folks say about every additive ever invented.

It does make me wonder why some oil manufacturer hasn't at least partnered with camguard to sell a version of their oil with camguard already added.
 
Salty said:
Based on how much the results of my oil analysis have varied over the years, it seems like this is well within the margin of error. I remain unconvinced.

In addition, this was also my understanding of cam guard:

so I'm a bit confused why hours on the engine is the metric here. I don't see how oil analysis based on hours running is measuring the quoted benefit at all.
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Exactly. Hours not running would be a better metric, especially with old oil that’s picked up some contamination and corrosives.

I don’t fly as much as I’d like, so I use CamGuard with my XC 20-50 in the hope that it will add some protection for those non-flying periods. Does it work? Well, it probably helps at least a little, and I’m pretty sure it does no harm.
 
Brad Z said:
It does make me wonder why some oil manufacturer hasn't at least partnered with camguard to sell a version of their oil with camguard already added.
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Probably not a good business case. The oil companies couldn’t charge enough extra to pay much for the CG, and CG can make more money selling it by the drink.
 
Brad Z said:
I don't know what to think but camguard is relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things so I use it. Probably what folks say about every additive ever invented.

It does make me wonder why some oil manufacturer hasn't at least partnered with camguard to sell a version of their oil with camguard already added.
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According to Ed....Exxon did try and put additives in their Elite oil, but it's not the same as what CamGuard uses. There are articles written regarding all the different additives. Camguard is the best IMHO.
 
I have to admit that I'm not totally convinced ... yet. But I find Larry's approach using ongoing analysis to measure wear metals as a good one.

I also compared my wear metal levels to those given in the video and mine are slightly better (his before CamGuard numbers) even though I'm not yet using CamGuard.

Will I use it? The jury is still out ... but I'm coming around.
 
guess how many hours are on this engine? Run with Phillips 20w50 and CamGuard. .....over 1,300 hrs.IMG_2439.JPG
 
Every few years, Aviation Consumer does some sort of oil shootout. The winner is always Phillips 20W-50 with CamGuard.
 
I'm one of the lemmings too, I suppose. Phillips XC 20W-50 and CamGuard in my TSIO520NBs.
 
Another user of Phillips 20w50 x/c with CamGuard
 
I didn't use Camguard with the O-320 that came with my airplane. After that engine died due to cancer of the cams/lifters, I started using Camguard in the O-360 that I replaced it with. I immediately noticed that in UOA, calcium went up by a factor of about 10, and phosporus by a factor of about 5. Makes me think that Camguard's ingredients include Ca and P.
 
Have been using for years with 20/50 Phillips
 
Brad Z said:
I don't know what to think but camguard is relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things so I use it. Probably what folks say about every additive ever invented.

It does make me wonder why some oil manufacturer hasn't at least partnered with camguard to sell a version of their oil with camguard already added.
Click to expand...

Story I heard is the guy developed the mixture to be the best every corrosion protection in an oil. It was too expensive and management felt people would not pay the price. So he asked if he could buy the rights and went out and sold it as an additive.
 
XC 20W50 with Camguard here too, since immediately after break-in on a new engine … of course I also had to tear it down to put in a new cam and lifters at 450hrs. :frown:
 
MRC01 said:
I didn't use Camguard with the O-320 that came with my airplane. After that engine died due to cancer of the cams/lifters, I started using Camguard in the O-360 that I replaced it with. I immediately noticed that in UOA, calcium went up by a factor of about 10, and phosporus by a factor of about 5. Makes me think that Camguard's ingredients include Ca and P.
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CamGuard does contain organic phosphates. I suspect it may also contain calcium sulfonates, which is a well-known anti-corrosion lubricant additive.
 
Anyone know how Ed Kollin is doing....last I heard he was sick with COVID and recovering. That was a few years ago at Oshkosh.

 
chemgeek said:
CamGuard does contain organic phosphates. I suspect it may also contain calcium sulfonates, which is a well-known anti-corrosion lubricant additive.
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I've wondered how they add Ca without increasing risk of detonation. Doesn't Ca qualify as metallic which could form deposits creating hot spots and increasing risk of pre-ignition? Is this a case of dosage being the only difference between medicine and poison?
 
MRC01 said:
I've wondered how they add Ca without increasing risk of detonation. Doesn't Ca qualify as metallic which could form deposits creating hot spots and increasing risk of pre-ignition? Is this a case of dosage being the only difference between medicine and poison?
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It is a concern for some engines and circumstances. Calcium has been reduced in SN plus and SP compliant motor oils out of concern for low speed preignition in direct injected turbo applications. The research I have done on the subject suggests that it is likely not a concern for other engines, so I have not been real concerned about it.
 
mondtster said:
It is a concern for some engines and circumstances. Calcium has been reduced in SN plus and SP compliant motor oils out of concern for low speed preignition in direct injected turbo applications. The research I have done on the subject suggests that it is likely not a concern for other engines, so I have not been real concerned about it.
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I've been using Camguard since 2005 with no issues. I posted pics earlier....my engine is super clean with no build up of anything.
 
mondtster said:
It is a concern for some engines and circumstances. Calcium has been reduced in SN plus and SP compliant motor oils out of concern for low speed preignition in direct injected turbo applications. The research I have done on the subject suggests that it is likely not a concern for other engines, so I have not been real concerned about it.
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To put it into perspective, Ca in UOA was around 10 ppm and after using Camguard it jumped to around 100.
By comparison, automotive oils even with SN and SP can have > 1000 ppm (for example: https://pqia.org/2021/03/11/above-and-below-average/)
So the Ca in aviation oil is still 10x lower in comparison.
 
Brad Z said:
It does make me wonder why some oil manufacturer hasn't at least partnered with camguard to sell a version of their oil with camguard already added.
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Because they can come up with their own additive formula. That's what Aeroshell Plus is.
 
Daleandee said:
I'm not yet a CamGuard user but I disagree with you. There appears to be a lot of mounting evidence that CamGuard does what they claim ...
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There are several CamGuard articles in Aviation Consumer that are worth reading. On the whole, it seems to do what it's supposed to.

I thought this article was especially interesting:
www.aviationconsumer.com

Idle-Engine Rust Control: Protection at a Price - Aviation Consumer

Its not the money, its the hassle to keep your idle-engine rust free. All the engine storage products we tried are effective; the hard choice is flyable storage versus long-term pickling.
www.aviationconsumer.com www.aviationconsumer.com

Here Bertorelli reviews products for pickling engines for long-term storage. Along with specific pickling products, they also tested Phillips XC + CG and found it worked nearly as well as the pickling oils, with the advantage that the plane was flyable. Engines preserved with pickle juice had to be drained and refilled with regular oil before flying.

For folks like me who don't fly as often as they'd like, and whose planes sometimes go unflown for weeks at a time, CG seems like a wise choice.
 
I too had reservations about Camguard because most oil additives are "snake oil", useless or worse. But everything I've read from multiple sources tells me that Camguard is the exception that proves this general rule. So I overcame my reservations and started using it.
 
Camguard has been around long enough for them to have done conclusive long term testing to prove that it works well enough to put their money where their mouth is. Being an “oil additive” they need to go above and beyond normal testing to make me a customer. I need to see a side by side test with one engine having a corroded cam and the other clean because of camguard. That said. I don’t think anyone is crazy for using it. There is data to say it “may” work. I’m just a cheap and skeptical person.
 
I’ve used Camguard for years and have no issues with it, but I do wonder how Cortec Vpci-336 compares to it. I have and use both.
 
Scott MacMoyle said:
Camguard has been around long enough for them to have done conclusive long term testing to prove that it works well enough to put their money where their mouth is. Being an “oil additive” they need to go above and beyond normal testing to make me a customer. I need to see a side by side test with one engine having a corroded cam and the other clean because of camguard. That said. I don’t think anyone is crazy for using it. There is data to say it “may” work. I’m just a cheap and skeptical person.
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pictures aren't good enough?
 
Scott MacMoyle said:
Camguard has been around long enough for them to have done conclusive long term testing to prove that it works well enough to put their money where their mouth is. Being an “oil additive” they need to go above and beyond normal testing to make me a customer. I need to see a side by side test with one engine having a corroded cam and the other clean because of camguard. That said. I don’t think anyone is crazy for using it. There is data to say it “may” work. I’m just a cheap and skeptical person.
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They (Camguard) published ASTM test results right from the start.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Anyone know how Ed Kollin is doing....last I heard he was sick with COVID and recovering. That was a few years ago at Oshkosh.
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He fought quite the battle. Was in the ICU so long he had to relearn how to walk. Now making great progress on strength and stamina. Can't say yet whether he'll make the air show circuit this year. But he's on the path back to 100%.

Paul
 
PaulMillner said:
He fought quite the battle. Was in the ICU so long he had to relearn how to walk. Now making great progress on strength and stamina. Can't say yet whether he'll make the air show circuit this year. But he's on the path back to 100%.

Paul
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Thanks Paul….thats good news.
 
I looked into the chemistry as much as I could with limited available information on ingredients. Best I can tell, what it is doing is buffering organic acids produced by incomplete combustion. These acids I would think are part of the corrosion process. So makes sense for me for less frequently flown engines.
 
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