PoA Jet Ski Project

[asechrest]

PS - Jesse, will look at the bilge system too.

 

[docmirror]

I fully understand why water doesn't go into the engine when it's sitting in the water and not running. Doc, care to describe why water wouldn't flow into the engine when forcing water into the exhaust pipe with a hose? Not saying you're wrong, just looking to better understand it.

Perhaps that "exhaust pipe" is jacketed and the water that flows through there doesn't come in contact with the actual exhaust? If that is true then it still mixes with the exhaust somewhere as water does come out the exhaust when running it on the hose. Where would it mix then?

Not sure I know the cooling jacket well enough to explain. I know all PWCs are self draining which is why you don't need to winterize them.

In this pic; http://cdn.partzilla.com/diagram/kawasaki/C16/C1650/F3145.png you can see where the intake is routed up high with a air break to prevent water filling from the jet when not under pressure(running).

In this pic; http://cdn.partzilla.com/diagram/kawasaki/C16/C1650/E3035.png I believe the intake is thru hose number 92120. There's an exit through the pee tube of 92121 which is also an air break for the exhaust that allows it to drain. The water exits somewhere in the expansion chamber. The key is that there's a riser in all the exhaust systems in this case exhaust pipe elbow which rises into the top of the engine bay, preventing back flow into the engine. Not sure where the water intake to the engine is, but it's in there somewhere. All the water eventually drains out of the system thru 92190F and the exhaust, so that it can't fill up and go in the engine. Of course, this presumes that all the pipes and ports are not clogged. That could be another situation where the engine could hydrolock if one of the exits was blocked with gunk. Another reason to run the water with the flush kit and test.

<edit: I found the cooling flow circuit diagram. Looks like the raw water enters the engine on the front of the crankcase, then exits the head, and goes into the top of the exhaust riser elbow pipe. From there, it's discharged into the expansion chamber below the manifold gasket, and leaves via the exhaust gas/water flow, or that small port at the very bottom.

http://www.shopsbt.com/forum/attach...ing-system-hose-routing-schematic-cooling.jpg >

 

[docmirror]

Alright, thanks. I'll have to look for some after-market screen thing. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they made those to be replaceable. They don't appear to come off. So I'd either be replacing the whole fuel pickup assembly with OEM new ($77+shipping) or cutting those screens off and replacing with something else.

I would recommend something like this: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/shop_parts/fuel_strainer/toyota/pickup.html

Not sure which will fit, but I'd cut off those old strainers and look for a replacement.

 

[asechrest]

Just picked up the oil block off kit.

Am I supposed to be using non-ethanol gas in this thing? Not hard to get around here I'm sure, but the Hess is a lot closer.

 

[jesse]

Not sure I know the cooling jacket well enough to explain. I know all PWCs care self draining which is why you don't need to winterize them.

In this pic; http://cdn.partzilla.com/diagram/kawasaki/C16/C1650/F3145.png you can see where the intake is routed up high with a air break to prevent water filling from the jet when not under pressure(running).

That picture is actually the bilge pump system. Suction is created somehow from that fitting in the jetpump. Part 14069 has a tiny hole in that must be clear for it to work. Part 14030 sits below the drive coupler and has small holes in it water will flow into and get sucked up and out. That thing can get plugged up with gunk, mine was.

Everything in that diagram is 100% part of the bilge pump assembly, actually that's the whole system.

At full speed it can pump an impressive amount of water out quickly.

When I have some free time I'll look through the other diagrams you posted so I can get a better grasp of how it all works.

 

[Henning]

Just picked up the oil block off kit.

Am I supposed to be using non-ethanol gas in this thing? Not hard to get around here I'm sure, but the Hess is a lot closer.

Non ethanol is better, but not necessary,just make sure you drain it for the off season.

 

[Henning]

That picture is actually the bilge pump system. Suction is created somehow from that fitting in the jetpump. Part 14069 has a tiny hole in that must be clear for it to work. Part 14030 sits below the drive coupler and has small holes in it water will flow into and get sucked up and out. That thing can get plugged up with gunk, mine was.

Everything in that diagram is 100% part of the bilge pump assembly, actually that's the whole system.

At full speed it can pump an impressive amount of water out quickly.

When I have some free time I'll look through the other diagrams you posted so I can get a better grasp of how it all works.

We also always put in a little Rule 500 and use a solid state 'non-float' switch. Sometimes it's really handy to be able to pump out the hull without the engine running.

 

[docmirror]

That picture is actually the bilge pump system. Suction is created somehow from that fitting in the jetpump. Part 14069 has a tiny hole in that must be clear for it to work. Part 14030 sits below the drive coupler and has small holes in it water will flow into and get sucked up and out. That thing can get plugged up with gunk, mine was.

Everything in that diagram is 100% part of the bilge pump assembly, actually that's the whole system.

At full speed it can pump an impressive amount of water out quickly.

When I have some free time I'll look through the other diagrams you posted so I can get a better grasp of how it all works.

Yup. My bad. Should have looked at the exit of the pipe. The third link is the water jacket. Like I said before, not sure I know enough about it to explain, so this is proof positive.

 

[asechrest]

Got my first jet skiing trip planned:

NOT! Seems like a great way to destroy the ski.

 

[asechrest]

I worked on installing the oil block off kit tonight and learned a valuable lesson in the process. When working on an engine, in a tight area, with space under the engine that is difficult to access...be careful with your tools!

I dropped a socket with allen insert down underneath the engine. It's a tool I need and want (completes my set), so I spent about an hour trying to fish it out from under the engine. In the end, I fashioned a tool out of wire and worked it in the space under the engine until I was able to make contact with it and push it aft of the engine. Argh! (And there's some sludge from hell under that engine. I kept pulling my hand out and seeing it covered in a slime that lead me to believe 1000 slugs had mated underneath my engine. I need to wash the hull out once I'm done with everything. )

Anyway, I got the oil pump off the stator cover, which is where it's mounted. Here's the pump and the spot it was mounted:




On the oil pump pic, you can see the oil feed line at the top (after you click) of the photo. It's the larger single line. I believe I remove this from the ship completely. It leads directly from the oil tank, which I'll be removing. The other smaller lines lead to each carb I believe. My block off kit comes with three little black inserts that I think go in the nipple of each carb's oil line connection. But I can't see it because those three oil lines lead underneath the flame arrestor. If I want to use the little black inserts that come with the kit, I'll have to take the flame arrestor off (which is probably not a big job). But, I think Jesse said I could also detach those lines from the oil pump side, insert a screw, zip-tie the screw in each, and call it a day.

I also took the flame arrestor cover off just to give myself some room when I was trying to fish out my tool. I snapped some some photos underneath there. It was surprisingly clean. I can see down into the...throttle body type thing?...and it's spotless, with shiney silver metal with nary a blemish. I guess there may be no reason for this area to be dirty since the part of it I'm looking at is probably just an air intake. I can squeeze the throttle and watch the throttle plates open. Pretty neat.

Here are some pics:




---

Now a quick question for my work tomorrow. I'll be mounting the oil block off plate where the oil pump was. It has this cloth-type gasket:



Do I need a gasket sealer or can I just rub some oil on this gasket and screw in the block off plate?

---

Lastly: My OEM starter relay mounting hardware arrives tomorrow. That completes everything I need for the ebox.


EDIT - Fixed my attachments I think.

 

[Henning]

Get some Indian Head or Permatex #2 gasket sealer.

 

[docmirror]

Yeah, dropping tools is a ***** in a boat. Get a good magnet. Although some stainless tools won't get picked up well with a magnet. I got the goo out with a healthy dose of Tide and water slurry. The problem is, when it's bound to the detergent and you get it out of the hull, you really can't put it anywhere except oil recycling.

As for the gasket, there's a product that is universally respected called Yamabond. There are other agents but that's some good stuff, a bit pricey. If you use it, just a very thin coat on the gasket surfaces and install.

 

[jesse]

Working on a jetski will absolutely teach you to drop nothing. I dropped something at one point and finally just pulled the engine again so I could get it out.

You do not want anything floating around in there that could somehow manage to jam itself into the coupler (which would be extremely unlucky, but with my luck would happen).

But, I think Jesse said I could also detach those lines from the oil pump side, insert a screw, zip-tie the screw in each, and call it a day.

I was more referring to doing that about an inch off the carb. I lost the plugs, so I put a very light coat of RTV on a screw, inserted it into about a 1" hose, then put the hose on the carb and zip tied it.

You could do it at that full length possibly but not sure what all is going on in the carb. Since the long one can easily pop off, I would put the effort into terminating the oil line at the carb, removing the frame arrestor (which is just some bolts, is quite easy.

 

[asechrest]

Alright, thanks gentlemen. I'll get some gasket sealer for my block off plate. Think I could just pick it up at West Marine? And Jesse: I'll take my flame arrestor off and see if I can plug right at the carbs. Thanks.

 

[Henning]

Alright, thanks gentlemen. I'll get some gasket sealer for my block off plate. Think I could just pick it up at West Marine? And Jesse: I'll take my flame arrestor off and see if I can plug right at the carbs. Thanks.

Any auto parts store has the ones I named.

 

[docmirror]

Permatex prolly at West marine. Yamabond - no. Permatex will work, just put it on thin.

 

[asechrest]

Alright, thanks Henning and Doc. We'll go that route and I'll stop at O'Reilly's or West Marine on the way home from work.

 

[asechrest]

One step forward and two steps back tonight.

I picked up gasket sealer at O'Reilly's tonight, then headed out to the garage for a bit after dinner. I wanted to make progress on the oil block off kit. I removed the main oil feed line, the oil pump, and the oil injection lines.



The main hurdle was plugging the oil injection ports at the carbs. The oil block off kit comes with these little cylindrical black plastic deals. I figured they inserted into a nipple on the carb (more on this later). But the oil lines sort of disappeared under the air intake cover/flame arrester section, and I wasn't able to see how to plug them.



So I opted to go ahead and take the air intake cover and flame arrester off. Part of doing so is unscrewing these real long bolts that insert from the top of the air intake box. Well, I unscrewed them all and then gave the flame arrester cover a jiggle and...the whole carb assembly shifted. Turns out these bolts attach the carb to the engine block, too. I tried to shift it back but it shifted farther, and I noticed a gasket squirreling out the aft side of the carb assembly. I recognized pretty quickly that I needed to go ahead and get the whole assembly off, if for no other reason than to properly re-seat that gasket. I had to pull some fuel hoses and the choke cable off, but I got enough lines off to be able to turn the carb assembly upside down and, lo and behold, there are the oil injection nipples.



Turns out the little rubber things that come in the block off kit are caps that fit over the injection nipples. If I had in my head a sense of what these looked like, I may have been able to cap them without pulling the assembly off. But such is the life of a newbie.



So, I went ahead and plugged the oil injection nipples at each carb. Now, my main question: can I reuse the gasket or do I need a new one, and if I need a new one, do I need a gasket sealer and if so, can I use the one I got at O'Reillys'?



Anything else I should do while I have the carbs off (not disassembled, mind you, just the carb assembly unhooked).

Thanks all.

 

[jesse]

One step forward and two steps back tonight.

That's the sign of progress with this sort of thing. The more you dig, the more you end up fixing, but in the end it's all fixed

So, I went ahead and plugged the oil injection nipples at each carb. Now, my main question: can I reuse the gasket or do I need a new one, and if I need a new one, do I need a gasket sealer and if so, can I use the one I got at O'Reillys'?

You do not need any gasket sealant there and you may end up removing the carbs another 20 times before this project is done, I know I did, you'll get really good at it

I bought new gaskets for everything before I even started tearing it apart so I used a new one. That said, for that particular gasket, I would not use a new one provided the existing one looks fine. In the picture you attached I see what appears to be a rip in the gasket so you should definitely replace it.

Anything else I should do while I have the carbs off (not disassembled, mind you, just the carb assembly unhooked).

Thanks all.

Personally if I had them off I would do a very basic teardown making sure not to adjust anything to see what they looked like inside. You will need carb gaskets most likely if you do that. Since they're easy to get at, and you haven't torn carbs down before, I would just bolt them back on and see where we stand once you test run it.

**THIS** is the time to prime the fuel system though. See the graphic I put in the previous post. You'll just remove the return fuel line from the carb and blow into it until fuel comes out of the carb. Takes like a minute.

 

[Henning]

Is there a particular reason you haven't just pulled the engine out? It's not difficult and saves a lot of hassle, pain, and blood.

 

[jesse]

Is there a particular reason you haven't just pulled the engine out? It's not difficult and saves a lot of hassle, pain, and blood.

It's not terribly difficult but it's not super easy either. You have to pull the carbs, entire exhaust system, ebox, a **** load of electrical connections, and then deal with removing all the coolant hoses which is a PITA. Cut a countless number of zip ties that you'll have to reinstall later, etc.

Once that's all done you have to figure out how you're going to lift it out of the ski, how you're going to work on it in the shop, how you're going to lift it back in, etc. That's beyond what most people have in their garage, although I pulled it off with about $50 in harbor freight gear.

You also have engine alignment issues. Have to be damn careful when you pull it to locate where all the shims were and put them in the exact same spots again. When you put it back in, it won't be aligned anymore, so you'll have to mess around with shims trying to align to the coupler.

I pulled mine 3 times. By the end you learn a lot, but even after 3 times pulling it and reinstalling it is going to take me an entire day to do right.

There is no way I would pull the engine to do anything he's done so far. He would have had to pull the carbs to pull the engine anyhow.

Granted if you want to restore the thing to like new mechanical condition and be confident it won't leave you stranded 20 miles downstream on a river anytime soon you really do need to pull it and go through EVERYTHING.

 

[Henning]

He's going to end up doing it anyway lol.

 

[docmirror]

Pulling the engine in most watercraft is a nightmare. Ask me how I know.

That gasket for the carbs looks ok to use for now. I think the ripped part isn't where there's any seals. You can reuse it if you put a very thin coat of the permatex on there. Again, very thin coat. You may have to take the carbs off again later anyway.

When you put the carbs back on, make sure you put all the hoses back where they came from. If you reverse the delivery and the return lines, it'll never run.

 

[asechrest]

Pulling the engine feels like a step too far at the moment. I believe it was Henning that said I'd have to take this methodically, and I'm comfortable with the pace I'm at now. Yes, I had to remove the intake and carb assembly tonight, but I was able to plug the oil injection nipples and I'd like to reinstall the assembly and continue.

 

[asechrest]

Pulling the engine in most watercraft is a nightmare. Ask me how I know.

That gasket for the carbs looks ok to use for now. I think the ripped part isn't where there's any seals. You can reuse it if you put a very thin coat of the permatex on there. Again, very thin coat. You may have to take the carbs off again later anyway.

When you put the carbs back on, make sure you put all the hoses back where they came from. If you reverse the delivery and the return lines, it'll never run.

I marked the hoses with a sharpie and took photos, so I should be able to get them connected back correctly. Also, the gasket may look ripped in the photo but it's not ripped in-person. I'll reinstall with a light coat of the gasket sealer.

 

[asechrest]

By the way, I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you helping me out here. Would like to get together some day and thank you each in person. Maybe at a fly-in or something.

 

[asechrest]

I had fun tonight. While working in the boat, I put rags underneath what I was working on so that if I dropped the tool (or the extremely tiny set screw for the choke cable), I could retrieve them. As a wise man once said, childrens do learn. Damn it felt good not to suck.

Anyway, first order of business was finishing the block off plate install. I put some sealer on the gasket and screwed the plate with gasket over the hole. No sweat, though it looks like I may have tightened it a bit much because I can see the gasket squeezing out around the plate. Hmm. I'll just get another if it leaks.



Next was getting the large gasket set up under the intake and getting the carb assembly set back on top. I first rigged this professional-grade carb assembly holder and stabilizer so that I could keep it out of the way and set the gasket on the engine block.



I spread the gasket sealer in a thin coat over both sides of the gasket and set it up on the engine here:



The gasket sealer is actually kind of nice because it's tacky and helped hold the gasket down for me. The gasket is semi-rigid and no longer quite flat. I then carefully set the carb assembly down over the gasket, then put the long screws down in from the top of the intake just to hold the whole assembly in place. (The flame arrester and cover are not yet on so these screws will come back out once I reinstall those.) Here's that assembly back on top of the engine block and gasket:



I then re-attached the choke cable to the carb/intake assembly. Interestingly, the choke was previously set so that, with the choke knob fully in, the butterfly valve was not completely open. I know this to be the case because 1) I can see where the set screw had crimped the choke cable and 2) I remember when removing the carb assembly the butterfly valve shifted to the fully open position as I removed all the attachments. I don't know that this would affect anything because the amount the butterfly valve was toward the closed position was very small, but the service manual notes that the valve should be fully open when the choke knob is fully in. So, that's how I installed it.

I also re-attached and re-zip tied a couple of the fuel hoses, and that's where I decided to leave it for tonight. I left the fuel delivery and return lines unattached. As Jesse suggested, I want to prime the fuel system now that I have easy access to the fuel lines and the carbs. So that means I need to re-install my fuel pickup assembly onto the gas tank, get my 2 cycle oil and gas and get them mixed, fuel the boat up, and then prime the system.

I won't be able to work on the boat again until Monday. See ya'll then.

 

[sferguson524]

asechrest,

It's been really cool watching you go through this process. Keep it up

 

[asechrest]

asechrest,

It's been really cool watching you go through this process. Keep it up

Thanks for following along. I've had fun so far and am learning a lot. We'll see if I can get this puppy running.

 

[kayoh190]

Yeah, this has been a really kick ass thread. I don't know jack squat about jet skis, but the entire process has been very interesting. It's amazing some of the knowledge you guys have.

Can't wait to see the first video of it fired up!

 

[sferguson524]

 

[Henning]

It's just turning wrenches and screwdrivers to pull the engine. All mechanical work is the same as far as wrench turning goes. It may get tedious and sometimes painful lol, but learning to do the fine timing and alignment work involved, and how to access difficult to access fasteners along with the rest of basic and intermediate tool skills (advanced is when you make/modify existing tools to do a job) is as much a part of the learning process as anything else.

No, wrench turning is the easy part, diagnostics, that's the difficult part. How to find and solve a problem without resorting to a belt fed parts gun on full auto. Sometimes however, that's the cheapest/only way we have to go about it. That's when good diagnostic intuition comes in. What's the 'best guess'? Lots of factors go into this one, like knowing it was going to be the $400 electronic controller.

You'll eventually pull the engine hopefully, maybe not this season, but eventually.

 

[asechrest]

It's just turning wrenches and screwdrivers to pull the engine. All mechanical work is the same as far as wrench turning goes. It may get tedious and sometimes painful lol, but learning to do the fine timing and alignment work involved, and how to access difficult to access fasteners along with the rest of basic and intermediate tool skills (advanced is when you make/modify existing tools to do a job) is as much a part of the learning process as anything else.

No, wrench turning is the easy part, diagnostics, that's the difficult part. How to find and solve a problem without resorting to a belt fed parts gun on full auto. Sometimes however, that's the cheapest/only way we have to go about it. That's when good diagnostic intuition comes in. What's the 'best guess'? Lots of factors go into this one, like knowing it was going to be the $400 electronic controller.

You'll eventually pull the engine hopefully, maybe not this season, but eventually.

Easy is, of course, relative. Even turning wrenches is a learning process for someone who has never turned wrenches. It's the little stuff that you take for granted: how do I get that wire out of the Molex plug? How do I use my multimeter to test a component? What does said component even do? What is gasket sealer? This fuse looks fine, but how do I know for sure it is fine? Etc., etc.

These are things that I had little exposure to growing up. And I finally got sick of riding in and upon machinery, the inner workings of which I had almost no knowledge. To most people, a vehicle is like a magical box. Wizardry happens inside, and it propels you. Something breaks or isn't working right? Pay a handsome fee to the wizardry fixer! Yes, we all know it takes gas, blows it up, and car goes that way ->. Beyond that, most folks don't have a clue. And that was me.

So it was time to get my hands dirty (figuratively, since I actually wear latex gloves from the auto parts store lol!), and a jet ski seemed a good start. So far I'm having fun and, between the help here and the job itself, enjoying the knowledge I am gaining.

Anyway, I tend to get antsy if I don't have a side-venture to work on so this is fulfilling that goal. I mean, if you don't have a jet ski to work on, what's left, heroine addiction?

 

[Henning]

Yep, thing is there's only one way to learn those wrench turning skills.

 

[docmirror]

Here's the rub with taking the engine out. I'm not sure of a Kaw but on all the Yamahas they have an engine cradle that has wide ears on it below the crankcase so that the twisting force from the engine is distributed outward to the side of the hull at an area called the chine(vertical wall of a boat). This makes sense because the twisting force when the ski is jumped out of and back into the water is very great, so they want that force to be disbursed to the corners of the hull.

So, you've got these four big ears sticking out from the bottom of the hull, and they have to get through that gap in the top. On the Yamaha, you need to remove: The entire exhaust right to the cylinder, the carbs, but the manifold can stay on. The wiring, and the water couplings, and of course the impulse coupling needs to be separated.

Once you get all that stuff done, then you need to winch the whole thing, with a load spreader and it come out of the hull tilted 40 deg to the left up, and about 30 deg to the tail end up so that the various mounts will clear the opening in the hull. I suspect that when these are assembled at the factory, the engine is in place, and the top hull is then dropped down onto the bottom hull with the gas tank, and various other stuff already in place. I"m pretty sure the Kaw is similar, and getting the engine out and back in is not a simple job. I would rather take the engine out of a Porsche than do the jet ski again.

Also, there's no problem with the bottom end of this ski, so basically no reason to take it out. All the work we'll be doing will be on elec, carbs, etc which can be accessed from the top or sides of the inner hull. However, if you blowed it up next summer, you really will have to remove it from the hull.

 

[jesse]

BTW this thread is one of my most favorite I've ever seen on PoA. I wish there were more people like the OP that are willing to put the hard work into learning how the mechanical devices of the world work. Hardly anyone can work on anything anymore. It's just sad.

It took me a lot of years to get the confidence to where I now know there is absolutely nothing I can't fix and the thought of not being able to fix it never even crosses my mind. Now it's just a financial decision most of the time to decide if it's worth fixing.

 

[asechrest]

I like the thread too, but I'm biased.

And no one noticed my awesome typo above: "Heroine addiction."

View attachment rm4377-wonder-heroine-halloween-costumes.jpg

 

[bnt83]

It's just turning wrenches and screwdrivers to pull the engine. All mechanical work is the same as far as wrench turning goes. It may get tedious and sometimes painful lol, but learning to do the fine timing and alignment work involved, and how to access difficult to access fasteners along with the rest of basic and intermediate tool skills (advanced is when you make/modify existing tools to do a job) is as much a part of the learning process as anything else.

No, wrench turning is the easy part, diagnostics, that's the difficult part. How to find and solve a problem without resorting to a belt fed parts gun on full auto. Sometimes however, that's the cheapest/only way we have to go about it. That's when good diagnostic intuition comes in. What's the 'best guess'? Lots of factors go into this one, like knowing it was going to be the $400 electronic controller.

You'll eventually pull the engine hopefully, maybe not this season, but eventually.

Agreed. Replacing parts isn't a big deal 90% of the time.

Troubleshooting is more like being a doctor than changing parts.

Building something from raw materials that works and looks good is a pretty admirable skill.

 

[sferguson524]

BTW this thread is one of my most favorite I've ever seen on PoA. I wish there were more people like the OP that are willing to put the hard work into learning how the mechanical devices of the world work. Hardly anyone can work on anything anymore. It's just sad.

It took me a lot of years to get the confidence to where I now know there is absolutely nothing I can't fix and the thought of not being able to fix it never even crosses my mind. Now it's just a financial decision most of the time to decide if it's worth fixing.

Jesse,

I couldn't agree with you more. I love doing my own work on most of my things. I was raised by people who came through the depression, so when something was done for, it was well and truly done for

 

[SCCutler]

BTW this thread is one of my most favorite I've ever seen on PoA. I wish there were more people like the OP that are willing to put the hard work into learning how the mechanical devices of the world work. Hardly anyone can work on anything anymore. It's just sad.

It took me a lot of years to get the confidence to where I now know there is absolutely nothing I can't fix and the thought of not being able to fix it never even crosses my mind. Now it's just a financial decision most of the time to decide if it's worth fixing.

Fixing broken stuff is curative for me. I hate that I have not had much time for doing such things.

I also am enjoying this thread (and Jesse's mags).