PoA Jet Ski Project

[Bill]

View attachment 36128

What jetski?

 

[asechrest]

A quick question before the action this week:

Should I go ahead and do a compression test on each cylinder before I gas this thing up? And if so, can I just rent the compression tester from the local auto parts store, and will I need an adapter?

Thanks, hoping for some progress this week.

 

[docmirror]

Doubt it will help. If you want to go down to O'Reilly's and get the comp tester it won't hurt but if you have compression issues it'll be apparent when you run it. No adapter needed, it'll have the right 14mm spark plug threads.

If the carbs are back on, you'll need to hold the throttle fully open when doing the test to get a good number. If the carbs are not back on, you want to be very careful not to drop anything into the intakes(be careful about this anyway) which could be sucked into the crankcase of the engine. It's best if the carbs are back on and connected while going forward. Note the carb intakes stick straight up, and gravity tends to drop stuff down in there, which can be fatal to the engine, so don't let it happen.

 

[asechrest]

Thanks Doc. Carb assembly is back on but attached loosely because the intake/flame arrester cover is not on and the long bolts go through those as well. Right now I've just stuck the bolts into the carb assembly and screwed partially into the...thing under it (heh, don't know the name, it's the metal that leads to the reed valves)...to keep it aligned and seated against the gasket and gasket sealer. I've kept a large, clean rag over the carbs and intake while working in other parts of the ski and between sessions.

 

[asechrest]

Mondays suck.

Just a bit of work tonight.

• Scraped off the crumbling filter screens on the fuel pickups
• Accidentally broke a piece of the plastic fuel pickup end into the fuel tank while trying to re-insert it into the fuel tank opening in the limited vertical space under the steering column. Oops.
• Intentionally broke off the rest of the brittle plastic fuel pickup ends (essentially the plastic "frame" that the filter screens attached to). I'll eventually replace these.
• Re-inserted the fuel pickup assembly into the fuel tank and attached with the four screws
• Re-tightened the fuel level assembly to the top of the fuel tank
• Grabbed a gallon of 2 cycle oil from Wal-Mart - Quicksilver Premium 2 cycle engine oil, TC-W3
• Discovered I ordered 6mm washers instead of 10mm washers for the mating connection of the starter relay to the electrical box. It goes relay -> 10mm washer -> plastic washer -> ebox. I found some large 10mm inner diameter washers laying around and was about to use those, but they're a bit larger than the plastic washers that separate the metal relay/washer connection from the metal ebox. So I feared they'd make contact with the ebox along the sides. I'll try to get the right size washers before hooking this up correctly.

Tomorrow and the next day I hope to re-attach the intake assembly, mix my oil and fuel, put it in the ski, prime the fuel lines/carbs, re-attach the flame arrester cover, and then see if she'll start up.

 

[sferguson524]

Sounds like progress is being made.. Keep it up.. We're all counting on you.

 

[asechrest]

Sounds like progress is being made.. Keep it up.. We're all counting on you.

Oh man, the pressure!

 

[sferguson524]

Oh man, the pressure!

 

[asechrest]

Ok, it's too late to try to fire this thing up; the neighbors will shoot me. What I'm doing is getting as ready as possible to come home from work tomorrow and see if it starts up.

I'll give a more robust update in a bit, but a quick question: can I go ahead and gas it up and prime the fuel system and then leave it until tomorrow after work? The reason I ask is because I need to re-attach the intake and flame arrester covers, but if I do that now I can't get to the return hose to prime the fuel system. So what I'd like to do -- if I can let the fuel system sit, primed, all night and tomorrow -- is fuel it up now, prime it, put the covers back on, and then all I have to do tomorrow is see if she fires up.

Related question: I'm using premix now (32:1 for now per Doc, since it hasn't had oil in a while). Does the oil come out of suspension if the fuel sits in the tank?

I'm still in the garage; just put the e-box all back together and I'm going to test spark again before I tighten down all the bolts. Thanks!

[EDIT] - Maybe this was a real dumb question. I mean, after all, the jet ski will sit for days between use, so I guess logically there shouldn't be any issue gassing, priming, and leaving it until tomorrow. Still, I'll let the question stand considering this is the first time it's had a start attempt in years.

 

[Henning]

Ok, it's too late to try to fire this thing up; the neighbors will shoot me. What I'm doing is getting as ready as possible to come home from work tomorrow and see if it starts up.

I'll give a more robust update in a bit, but a quick question: can I go ahead and gas it up and prime the fuel system and then leave it until tomorrow after work? The reason I ask is because I need to re-attach the intake and flame arrester covers, but if I do that now I can't get to the return hose to prime the fuel system. So what I'd like to do -- if I can let the fuel system sit, primed, all night and tomorrow -- is fuel it up now, prime it, put the covers back on, and then all I have to do tomorrow is see if she fires up.

Related question: I'm using premix now (32:1 for now per Doc, since it hasn't had oil in a while). Does the oil come out of suspension if the fuel sits in the tank?

I'm still in the garage; just put the e-box all back together and I'm going to test spark again before I tighten down all the bolts. Thanks!

No worries to prime it now and have it ready for tomorrow. The oil will stay mixed just fine. Water suspends in fuel, oil mixes.

 

[PaulS]

Ok, it's too late to try to fire this thing up; the neighbors will shoot me. What I'm doing is getting as ready as possible to come home from work tomorrow and see if it starts up.

I'll give a more robust update in a bit, but a quick question: can I go ahead and gas it up and prime the fuel system and then leave it until tomorrow after work? The reason I ask is because I need to re-attach the intake and flame arrester covers, but if I do that now I can't get to the return hose to prime the fuel system. So what I'd like to do -- if I can let the fuel system sit, primed, all night and tomorrow -- is fuel it up now, prime it, put the covers back on, and then all I have to do tomorrow is see if she fires up.

Related question: I'm using premix now (32:1 for now per Doc, since it hasn't had oil in a while). Does the oil come out of suspension if the fuel sits in the tank?

I'm still in the garage; just put the e-box all back together and I'm going to test spark again before I tighten down all the bolts. Thanks!

[EDIT] - Maybe this was a real dumb question. I mean, after all, the jet ski will sit for days between use, so I guess logically there shouldn't be any issue gassing, priming, and leaving it until tomorrow. Still, I'll let the question stand considering this is the first time it's had a start attempt in years.

I'd wait. No the oil doesn't unmix. I'd wait just in case you have leak. Better to be there with it and find out before the bilge fills up IMO. Also I would not fill it up at first, just enough so that you can prime and get it set, plus a half gallon more. Just the way I would do it. Finally be real careful with vapor when you are priming, very explosive and sneaky, especially since jet skis don't have bilge blowers.

 

[docmirror]

Yeah, put it all together and get it ready to go. Pressurize the fuel system with either the primer bulb or blow in the filler nozzle. If you mixed the fuel like I explained, it will not separate overnight. In general, it won't separate for a long time, but with Ethanol, that's no guarantee. Turn the fuel selector to 'off' overnight and then turn it back on before you are ready to start. Check the prime again, and have the cooling water ready.

Once you are ready, pull the choke all the way, crank it, and as soon as it starts push the choke back in, unless it's very cold there, then you can push it in slowly. Turn on the water cooling, and inspect inside for water leaks. Check for water coming out the pee tube fairly soon, and check that it gets warm. After that, water should be coming out the exhaust in a minute or two.

You will see blue smoke. Maybe a fair amount of blue smoke. keep it running to blow all that WD-40 and oil out of the engine. While monitoring the water flow. Look down in the bottom for water leaks into the hull.

If no leaks in the hull, and the pee tube water is warm, and the exhaust water is warm, and the smoke goes down a bit, you are golden. It's going to smoke a bit anyway because of the dino oil at 32:1 ratio. Run it and let it idle along for a while to get things moving in the engine. It should rev freely when you throttle it some. Don't run unloaded at very hi revs for sustained time, this is hard on the bearings, but it won't damage anything for a while.

 

[asechrest]

Gracias, gentlemen.

Doc: I mixed two gallons at the gas station tonight like you explained. Also, no primer bulb. I'm priming per the service manual snapshot provided by Jesse. I'll blow into the return line as it directs.

 

[docmirror]

Well, here's the thing about priming. If you take that small hose off and start blowing on it, you are pressurizing the tank and the lines via a small tube. If you blow into the big filler neck you can put a lot more air in there. It would be best to remove the return line to prime so that you aren't pushing on both sides of the diaphragm but either way blowing into the return line does basically the same job.

I go to the marine store and put a primer bulb on every jet ski to save the battery and starter from over-working when it's put up for a while.

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--epa-approved-primer-bulb--P013854278

Just put in the line TO the carbs and when you want to get going you just squeeze the primer bulb until it firm and you are all set.

 

[asechrest]

Tonight's update:

• Starter relay officially installed in the e-box using new OEM mounting hardware
• Wiring in the e-box organized
• CDI igniter bolted in
• E-box bolted to the hull and cover re-attached
• Bolted spark plug wire grounding points back to the e-box
• Completely removed oil level stick by unplugging it at the molex connector in the hull
• Re-tested spark, all three plugs still fire
• Intake cover and flame arrester re-attached and bolted down
• Fuel delivery line re-attached
• 31:1 premix fuel poured into gas tank
• Turned ignition back on and confirmed fuel gauge still shows E. Is this because I have only 0.2 gallons more than the reserve amount in the tank?

I tried to prime the fuel system first by blowing into the return line at the carbs and second by blowing into the fuel filler neck. If I blow hard enough into either, I can hear some gurgling in the area of the carbs. However, I never see fuel dripping out of the fuel return fitting at the carbs, which is what I understand is supposed to happen per the service manual. In case it makes any difference: it's difficult to blow into either point, and after I remove my mouth, air comes rushing back out of the point I was blowing air into. Not sure if this is normal and I don't know if the fuel system is primed. I guess I'll just give it a go.

A final question for tonight: my reserve line pulls the final 1.8 gallons from the tank per the user manual. I have only put 2 gallons of premix into the tank (which was completely dry). I am likely to be trying to start the ski on a slight bow-downward incline because I'll pull it out on my driveway. Should I add another gallon or two of premix so I don't need to pull from the reserve?

Thank you.

 

[docmirror]

We'll see if your priming method worked depending on how much cranking is needed before it fires. Yes, you'll get back pressure when you stop blowing on it. You're pressurizing the fuel system to try forcing fuel into the fuel pump chamber, and into the carb diaphragms. Both ways are a hassle, which is why I put a link in for the primer bulb. Much easier. The gauge will read E until you get more fuel, then we can check if it moves. For now, don't mix fuel because it'll go bad before next summer when you want to use it.

Since you cleaned the reserve tank well, and you have a fuel filter in line, you can just draw off the reserve setting on the selector. a double fuel filter is a good idea until you know you have a clean fuel system to the carbs.

I would make an effort to get the ski level when test running as that will avoid any chance of back flow of water into the engine. Recall, that's the format where the exhaust chamber may be higher than the high point of the exhaust manifold, and could provide a clear path for water ingress into the engine. Level running is best.

 

[Henning]

It sounds like your fuel level isn't covering the pick up tube, you may need to put more in.

 

[asechrest]

I am relatively sure the fuel level is above at least the reserve pickup. And perhaps touching the primary pickup.

What I don't know is whether the fuel level stick (which is a separate assembly) starts reading above or below the reserve level; I'll try to look that up. My hunches are that either I don't have enough fuel to get the gauge to read, or my fuel level unit is broken.

Neither should prevent me from trying to fire it up, though, so I'm focusing on that first.

 

[Henning]

I am relatively sure the fuel level is above at least the reserve pickup. And perhaps touching the primary pickup.

What I don't know is whether the fuel level stick (which is a separate assembly) starts reading above or below the reserve level; I'll try to look that up. My hunches are that either I don't have enough fuel to get the gauge to read, or my fuel level unit is broken.

Neither should prevent me from trying to fire it up, though, so I'm focusing on that first.

I thought you said you heard gurgling and never got fuel through? Get a primer bulb and install it. I promise it won't be the last time you use it. Give it a shot, but if you do more than a total of 30 seconds cranking, put more fuel in it.

 

[asechrest]

I thought you said you heard gurgling and never got fuel through? Get a primer bulb and install it. I promise it won't be the last time you use it. Give it a shot, but if you do more than a total of 30 seconds cranking, put more fuel in it.

I thought you were speaking about the fuel level gauge issue. I see what you mean now. I can't remember whether I have it on reserve or primary right now. Will make sure it's on reserve and try to re-prime tomorrow before I start it up.

Also understood re: you and Doc's suggestion for the primer bulb. Will install at some point. Thanks.

 

[jesse]

There is most likely an inline fuel filter already installed. They're usually clear. Look in it to see if fuel is in there.

The fuel gauges aren't going to give you that much precision. I'd say mine is 30% accurate at best.

I had no trouble getting it primed per those directions. I'm thinking you don't have enough gas in it.

 

[asechrest]

After sleeping on it: I had the fuel selector on primary (as opposed to reserve) with only 2 gallons of fuel in the tank. Per the manual, the ski pulls from reserve at the last 1.8 gallons in the tank. So that should mean the fuel level was juuuuust barely at the primary fuel pickup level. But depending on whether I have the ski truly level, the primary pickup might not be drawing any fuel, which may explain my priming issue last night and the gurgling sound at the carbs.

I'll either switch to reserve or put another 2 gallons in tonight. Note: I did not clean the fuel tank because my ski requires that I remove the engine to do so, so I know there is some sediment at the bottom of the tank. So I'll probably opt for adding the additional gallons and drawing from primary.

 

[Henning]

After sleeping on it: I had the fuel selector on primary (as opposed to reserve) with only 2 gallons of fuel in the tank. Per the manual, the ski pulls from reserve at the last 1.8 gallons in the tank. So that should mean the fuel level was juuuuust barely at the primary fuel pickup level. But depending on whether I have the ski truly level, the primary pickup might not be drawing any fuel, which may explain my priming issue last night and the gurgling sound at the carbs.

I'll either switch to reserve or put another 2 gallons in tonight. Note: I did not clean the fuel tank because my ski requires that I remove the engine to do so, so I know there is some sediment at the bottom of the tank. So I'll probably opt for adding the additional gallons and drawing from primary.

The sediment is not as big of a concern as the varnish that may be in the tank, did you get a peak into it? If you have a layer of varnish in the tank it is going to break loose and give you endless problems with clogged lines and filters. Remember what I said, you're going to pull the engine eventually.

 

[asechrest]

The sediment is not as big of a concern as the varnish that may be in the tank, did you get a peak into it? If you have a layer of varnish in the tank it is going to break loose and give you endless problems with clogged lines and filters. Remember what I said, you're going to pull the engine eventually.

I have pictures and video of the inside and bottom of the tank. All I could see was a bit of sand and one of the plastic fuel pickup end caps. And I accidentally added another plastic fuel end cap to the bottom. I do find it a bit silly you have to pull the engine to get the tank out.

Oh and Jesse: I had that fuel filter out of the ski last night trying to see if it opens up for cleaning. Seems to be self-contained, so I just put it back in. I'll check it for fuel tonight when I try to re-prime.

 

[Henning]

I have pictures and video of the inside and bottom of the tank. All I could see was a bit of sand and one of the plastic fuel pickup end caps. And I accidentally added another plastic fuel end cap to the bottom. I do find it a bit silly you have to pull the engine to get the tank out.

Oh and Jesse: I had that fuel filter out of the ski last night trying to see if it opens up for cleaning. Seems to be self-contained, so I just put it back in. I'll check it for fuel tonight when I try to re-prime.

Oh, in a world that is full of design features that make me go "WTF?", that's a minor one.

 

[asechrest]

Also, when I siphoned out the old gas, I watched it flow through the clear tube into my container and it was completely clear; no chunks or anything of that nature. Hoping that means no varnish.

 

[Henning]

Also, when I siphoned out the old gas, I watched it flow through the clear tube into my container and it was completely clear; no chunks or anything of that nature. Hoping that means no varnish.

Sounds ok, as long as no one let fuel sit in it for a couple of years you should be ok.

 

[PaulS]

Also, when I siphoned out the old gas, I watched it flow through the clear tube into my container and it was completely clear; no chunks or anything of that nature. Hoping that means no varnish.

Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on priming, give it a try but in the end it should self prime when you crank it as long as the fuel pickups are covered. WATCH THOSE VAPORS IN THE BILGE. I'd hate to see a bad outcome to all this work. Look forward to good news tonight and hearing about a maiden voyage this weekend.

 

[asechrest]

Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on priming, give it a try but in the end it should self prime when you crank it as long as the fuel pickups are covered. WATCH THOSE VAPORS IN THE BILGE. I'd hate to see a bad outcome to all this work. Look forward to good news tonight and hearing about a maiden voyage this weekend.

I'll try not to burn my face off. I can see the headline now: Man permanently disfigured during forum-lead jet ski rebuild project

Not totally sure what action to take regarding vapors in the bilge. I've been letting the hull air out after spraying WD-40 or gassing it up before my spark tests. But now the plugs will be in the engine. Just for my own knowledge, how would the fire originate for my startup test?

 

[Henning]

I'll try not to burn my face off. I can see the headline now: Man permanently disfigured during forum-lead jet ski rebuild project

Not totally sure what action to take regarding vapors in the bilge. I've been letting the hull air out after spraying WD-40 or gassing it up before my spark tests. But now the plugs will be in the engine. Just for my own knowledge, how would the fire originate for my startup test?

A fan works well. Most of the fumes are heavier than air so will stay in the hull. Not a huge risk unless you have fresh gas puddled in the hull, but then not that big a deal to point a fan down in the hole and ventilate real quick either.

 

[PaulS]

I'll try not to burn my face off. I can see the headline now: Man permanently disfigured during forum-lead jet ski rebuild project

Not totally sure what action to take regarding vapors in the bilge. I've been letting the hull air out after spraying WD-40 or gassing it up before my spark tests. But now the plugs will be in the engine. Just for my own knowledge, how would the fire originate for my startup test?

The vapors are heavier than air, I just got concerned when you talked about overflow from priming, although I would think that the carb overflows are ducted to the outside of the hull. I would just make sure you have no puddled gas and a fan pointed from above into the hull may help. Your nose, provided you still have a sense of smell, is probably one of the best indicators.

Chances of a problem are very small, unless you have a leak or the overflow ends up in the hull, then I would be very careful.

 

[jesse]

Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on priming, give it a try but in the end it should self prime when you crank it as long as the fuel pickups are covered. WATCH THOSE VAPORS IN THE BILGE. I'd hate to see a bad outcome to all this work. Look forward to good news tonight and hearing about a maiden voyage this weekend.

If you can't prime it manually the engine sure the hell isn't going to be able to. That's half the reason for doing it...knowing that the fuel is flowing..so you don't burn up your starter trying to start.

Crank too much, burn the starter up, and you'll be pulling the engine to fix it.

 

[jesse]

After sleeping on it: I had the fuel selector on primary (as opposed to reserve) with only 2 gallons of fuel in the tank. .

Don't feel bad. I stranded myself a half mile off shore on a 40 mph wind day because I had the primary and reserve hoses backwards. Ran the tank empty thinking I had reserve left and didn't.... Drifted towards a very rocky shore that there was no way to beach the jetski on safely....had to jump in the water and swim non-stop away from the shore until someone finally saved me with a boat.

That was also the first time I took the girlfriend out on it after I was confident it was reliable. lol.

 

[asechrest]

Apologies for looking a bit goofy.

 

[PaulS]

Success, congratulations!!!!

 

[PaulS]

If you can't prime it manually the engine sure the hell isn't going to be able to. That's half the reason for doing it...knowing that the fuel is flowing..so you don't burn up your starter trying to start.

Crank too much, burn the starter up, and you'll be pulling the engine to fix it.

I'm sure he wouldn't sit there cranking it for 10 minutes like a doofus.

 

[asechrest]

I'm PUMPED!

If this isn't the epitome of a community success story, I don't know what is!

 

[PaulS]

I'm PUMPED!

If this isn't the epitome of a community success story, I don't know what is!

Your headlamp made the video, we expect a video of the maiden voyage soon!!

 

[asechrest]

Your headlamp made the video, we expect a video of the maiden voyage soon!!

Haha, yeah, it's the best I have on-hand to work after dark inside the hull of the jet ski. After I get over my elation I've got a bit more to do before I put it on the water.

And while it's not on the water yet, I do want to thank everyone who helped me get to this point, including the folks who followed the thread and offered moral support.

 

[Henning]

Apologies for looking a bit goofy.

Excellent, for future reference, have the water flow control at the engine end of the hose, get a $2 ball valve hose end.

So, now the future... Personally I would have left the metered mixing system on, but since you chose to eliminate it, what oil, and what ratio are you looking to premix? My favorite oil was always Drag-on Snowmobile Oil because it had some nitro in it, not sure if it's still available. Outside of that I prefer a BelRay product. I know people will argue against this, and the arguments are real, but I run those engines at 75 and even 100:1 on premix, and I rarely clean a fouled plug. Any water cooled two stroke I do this with.

I started with a fleet of 6 & 8 HP outboards of all different makes at Balboa Boat Rental in Newport Beach where we have a total of 32 engines on the line and around 5 spares. In response to complaints about the 2 stroke smoke, I started cutting back on the oil. Now these engines ar on 14&16' cathedral hull boats, so they are at idle or full throttle, 6 kts is all you get. I saw no negative consequences over 2 years and started experimenting with higher HP 2 strokes and had no problems at 75:1 with lowered operations cost in plugs and oil. If you look at the more advanced auto mix systems you see on current new 2 strokes, you'll see they'll operate as lean as 150:1 and rarely richer than 75:1. If I am operating a light load 2 stroke outboard, I'll mix 100:1.