"Please don't group numbers, we can't do that" - heard from the tower

Discussion in 'Change to my Frequency...' started by RussR, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Controller could group it for clarity but only a restate. “Cessna one two three alpha bravo, climb and maintain one zero thousand, ten thousand.”
     
  2. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    Mine isn't a callsign, it's a sobriety test for controllers. :confused:
     
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  3. RussR

    RussR Pattern Altitude

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    We weren't sure either, that's why we asked about it once we got on the ground.
     
  4. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    US ATC are actually taught to group numbers on flight numbers. For example, it isn't United One Two Tree Four, it is United Twelve Thirty-Four. Aircraft callsigns are usually different - It would be SkyChicken One Two Tree Alpha Bravo. However, I do hear things like "triple nine" and "seven hundred" when you get repeat numbers that are tongue twisting.
     
  5. David235

    David235 Pre-Flight

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    Kinda like saying Cherokee Two Thirty Five... or Cessna One Eighty Two... guilty as charged. :)
     
  6. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I had one of those. 1323C. Don’t know what it is about two’s and three’s but when they are together in call signs it gets confused a lot. If I had dollar for every time I did it as a controller and another for every time I heard another controller do it, I’d be a rich man. When I bought it I groaned and said to myself, this is going to be an adventure. It was. I started calling myself one three two three charlie, that’s thirteen twenty three charlie on initial call ups
     
  7. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    You can always group (for those of us with dyslexia ):
    1 3 <short pause>2 3<short pause> Charlie.
     
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  8. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I was part owner of 734NU for a while. The phonetics for the last two characters were easy to stumble over, so I eventually developed the technique of saying those two characters very deliberately each time.
     
  9. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    I guess we should be grateful they let us use numbers at all ...

    107356907_10216939130055269_3378452311733811591_n.jpg
     
  10. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I say callsigns using grouped numbers at work all the time and have never heard anyone complain about that.

    "Indy Center, Air East thirty-one, level three four zero."
     
  11. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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  12. texasclouds

    texasclouds Cleared for Takeoff

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    Just say white Cezna next time...
     
  13. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    121 and some 135 use an FAA authorized call sign. Unless a 4 digit with zeros are involved or clarity purposes, they are spoken in group form. For the rest of us who don’t have an FAA authorized callsign, single digit is the correct format.

    D9C4C2F6-59FB-4A1F-A7DC-C13968FC9079.jpeg

    Yesterday I used 3 different IDs. N number, priority, and FAA authorized (local) all during a single flight. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  14. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    CAP has an FAA-authorized call sign. Currently it's "Cap," but for a long time it was "Capflight" (designator CPF) because "Cap" was reserved for the defunct Capital Airlines.
     
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  15. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. Several organizations use authorized call signs. I was just referring to the “Air East thirty one.”. As stated earlier, air carrier is a 3LD authorization and for the most part, spoken in group form.
     
  16. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    CAP has us say it in group form on aviation frequencies, but not on CAP frequencies. :rolleyes1:
     
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  17. ahypnoz

    ahypnoz Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have heard ATC frequently group numbers whenever the pilot is changing frequencies and the initial read back was incorrect, ATC almost always say it differently the second time by grouping the numbers together. For example change to 134.05 if the read back was incorrect by the pilot, they will say one hundred thirty four, zero five. (In a loud voice). Also with a heading change that was read back incorrectly, instead of repeating the same thing I.e. turn to a heading of Three two zero to the pilot, he will say turn to a heading of three hundred twenty, now! to avoid on coming traffic. (luckily it is not always me). I would here this at least once every 2 hours or so.
     
  18. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Yup. It’s in their rule book

    2−4−18. NUMBER CLARIFICATION
    a. If deemed necessary for clarity, and after stating numbers as specified in Paragraph 2−4−17, Numbers Usage, controllers may restate numbers using either group or single-digit form.
    EXAMPLE−
    “One Seven Thousand, Seventeen Thousand.”
    “Altimeter Two Niner Niner Two, Twenty Nine Ninety Two.”
    “One Two Six Point Five Five, One Twenty Six Point Fifty Five.”
     
  19. arnoha

    arnoha Cleared for Takeoff

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    Interesting. At least around here I usually hear "One Zero, Ten, Thousand." The "Thousand" is generally not repeated. That's not correct phraseology?

    I will tend to group digits on a readback unless the controller is cranky about it. I find that if I have to do the small mental work of converting the number and not just parroting back the sounds I heard, I'm more likely to retain it or copy it correctly. So, if I get:

    "Contact Approach on One Two Zero Point One."

    I'll generally respond with:

    "Twenty Ten, Four Sierra Pop"

    (Yes, I have a habit of dropping the second 'a' on Papa. That has no reason save laziness. I should stop doing that.)
     
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  20. Larry in TN

    Larry in TN Pattern Altitude

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    It is not. "one-zero thousand, ten thousand" is correct.

    The most often confused altitudes are 10,000 and 11,000. Those are probably the best altitudes to restate if you are going to use that technique. Restate other altitudes when there are any ambiguities, block transmission, poor radio quality, differing accents, etc.
     
  21. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    haha Ft Worth center was grouping numbers for people yesterday; thought of this thread
     
  22. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    Of course, some people say Puh-Paw and others say Pah-Pah.
     
  23. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    To be ‘correct’ it is ‘one zero thousand, ten thousand.’ But ‘one zero, ten thousand is so common and never seems to cause a misunderstanding it ain’t no thing.

    Same thing with readbacks. Some readbacks. Altitude assignments and other ‘clearance’ items ya shouldnt be messing around with. Any frequencies ending in .25, .50 or .75, I say ‘and a quarter, half, three quarters.’ No particular reason, it’s just fun. Try Sugar Pop next time:)
     
  24. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Whereas I say "Pop-a". :p
     
  25. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    Are you sure? Or is it Pop-Uh?
     
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  26. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    Pretty certain it is Pop-a... Pop-Uh has more inflection on the second syl-AH-ble and "Uh" takes longer to say than "a". :p
     
  27. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It's not pop-UH, it's POP-uh.

    Proving, once again, that pilots will argue about absolutely ANYTHING. :D
     
  28. smv

    smv Pattern Altitude

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    No, we will not... :p
     
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  29. arnoha

    arnoha Cleared for Takeoff

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    Unsurprisingly, my California accent matches that: POP-uh. Which is why shortening it to just POP is natural for me. If someone else's natural accent split the syllable where it seems to make more sense and sound more like pahpah, I'm guessing it would be less natural to hear pop as a good abbreviation for Papa. I'll try to remember that when I fly east and remember to say the whole thing.
     
  30. JCranford

    JCranford En-Route

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    I say 'two hundred Romeo Charlie' rather than two zero zero Romeo Charlie' all the time. Never had a controller complain and in fact most of them say it too. If I try to say 'zero Romeo Charlie' it comes out 'ZeeRomeo Charlie"
     
  31. Spring Ford

    Spring Ford Pre-takeoff checklist

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    But that means you can't have classics like this -

    upload_2020-7-22_12-57-32.png
     
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  32. guzziguy

    guzziguy Pre-Flight

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    Now THAT'S funny...
     
  33. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    I always make a point to say "KAY-Beck," and half of the people who hear me don't know what I'm saying...
     
  34. Let'sgoflying!

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    Il a dit quoi?
     
  35. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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    Mida ta ütles?
     
  36. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    You would sound like a local in eastern North Carolina
     
  37. bluerooster

    bluerooster Pattern Altitude

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    My first radio contact with ATC, after buying into my first airplane, was to request flight following. It went as follows:
    Me: ATL approach, Cherokee five zero zero kilo charlie with VFR request.
    ATL: Five hundred kilo charlie go ahead.

    From that point on to the sale of the airplane years later it was allways five hundred kilo charlie. No matter who I was talking to, or how I initiated the call, the reply was always five hundred kilo charlie.
     
  38. bluerooster

    bluerooster Pattern Altitude

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    I've also heard others say "puh-PA"