Personal Minimums, Marginal VFR

RockyMtnFlyer said:
"Avoid convective and icing weather"? In the areas where AA5B and I live that is the only kind of IFR we get. I've been instrument rated for 30+ years, never had access to FIKI equipment; my actual instrument time is less that 3%. It makes it tough as a CFII when a student wants some actual time and I have to tell them, no, you can't go play with the big boys. As much as I'd like to, I don't do it. It's not fair to them but if they want actual time in a C172, it won't be around here. In answer to the original question, my MVFR minimums are well above VFR minimums.
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Ok, but that's you and where you live. And doesn't answer my question, in true POA form :lol:

I'm east coast, flat land. While we do get some fun thunderstorms are the weather warms up, we often get 2k' layers that are 2-3k' AGL. It would be nice to get a moderately accurate prediction of those circumstances so I can take advantage of them.
 
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Skip Miller said:
Anyone contemplating flying in marginal vfr frequently needs to understand what Special VFR is and how to best utilize that privilege. Way long time ago, before my PP-ASEL checkride, I was up with my instructor out of KBDR when a strong cold front came through including some significant snow squalls. My CFI said "watch this", and called the tower for a Special vfr clearance, received it, and landed without fuss or damage. At the same time we could hear the gaggle of weekend warriors calling for pop-ups for clearance to Islip NY KISP to divert. Great lesson!

-Skip
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I always get nervous when someone says, “watch this”. :eek:
 
UngaWunga said:
Ok, but that's you and where you live. And doesn't answer my question, in true POA form :lol:

I'm east coast, flat land. While we do get some fun thunderstorms are the weather warms up, we often get 2k' layers that are 2-3k' AGL. It would be nice to get a moderately accurate prediction of those circumstances so I can take advantage of them.
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OK, (in true POA form) I'll take a stab at it...

Can't help you with an opinion with Aviation Weather. gov but I have found that ForeFlight's MOS forecasts have been somewhat reliable, quick and simple, but don't include cloud tops. They do provide: Temperature range, cloud base, visibility and precipitation during the time frame issued. The MOS goes out to 3 days, and often (as would be expected) becomes more accurate the closer you get to your departure time. But it still is only a computer based forecast.

For obtaining the most recent and accurate cloud tops / icing and turbulence info immediately before departure, telephone numbers are available for various Approach / Departure ATC facilities. I don't abuse it, but infrequently have obtained the latest cloud and ice info from ATC, followed by their request for a PIREP from someone in their airspace (usually an airliner climbing out), while you stay on the line and wait. Never have tried it during busy push times or in airspace (like big cities) when they're typically busy.
 
UngaWunga said:
Ok, but that's you and where you live. And doesn't answer my question, in true POA form :lol:

I'm east coast, flat land. While we do get some fun thunderstorms are the weather warms up, we often get 2k' layers that are 2-3k' AGL. It would be nice to get a moderately accurate prediction of those circumstances so I can take advantage of them.
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My last sentence answered the OP's question. I was not aware that you asked a question. If I have time, I'll go back a look.
 
AA5Bman said:
So. What are your thoughts on marginal VFR?
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I think it's a great idea to get comfortable with MVFR, but be careful you don't get burned. I was recently on a flight where it was VFR at the Airport, but I had to depart IFR to climb up to altitude. I climbed from about 2000 to 3000 AGL to clear blue skies on top, but that cloud base went for hundreds of miles and at one point I heard a VFR pilot that was stuck on top and called ATC for help. About 100nm west of where I departed I could see the end of the front and the ground, so I let ATC know, but about that time the pilot also found a hole and made it under the clouds. For this I'd suggest you do some practice with a CFII on how to descend through a cloud layer. If you're flying marginal Wx, you might find yourself stuck on top and you can only fly around looking for a hole. Eventually you're fuel gauges are going to force you to get over an airport, declare and emergency and descend through the clouds.

As for just flying around in MVFR, remember it can also turn into IFR or even IMC, so always have an out and don't go poking around in Wx that can close in behind you. Most of my marginal flying was scud running where the overcast was pretty stable at a certain altitude for miles and miles. So I didn't mind flying along underneath (opposite of the guy that got stuck on top). And I didn't have a problem going on top, but I'd know certain airports were broken to scattered and expected to get better not worse. So maybe not where I was going, but at least I had some various outs along my route.
 
AV8R_87 said:
At the risk of this thread becoming cross-controlled, it's hard to get an accurate forecast when you don't even get enough funding to launch a minimum number of weather observation balloons.
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At the risk of the thread going inverted, I haven't noticed that the forecasting has been any worse than its always been.
 
UngaWunga said:
Ok, but that's you and where you live. And doesn't answer my question, in true POA form :lol:

I'm east coast, flat land. While we do get some fun thunderstorms are the weather warms up, we often get 2k' layers that are 2-3k' AGL. It would be nice to get a moderately accurate prediction of those circumstances so I can take advantage of them.
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I’m on the gulf coast and I find the AWC cloud layer as accurate as any other product I’ve used for cloud cover. It gets fairly accurate under 3 days out and very accurate under 24 hours out in the upper Tx to Fl panhandle and inland a hundred miles.
 
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At the risk of the thread going inverted, I haven't noticed that the forecasting has been any worse than its always been.
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And I'm not as fat as I used to be...
 
M20K said:
I think it's a great idea to get comfortable with MVFR, but be careful you don't get burned. I was recently on a flight where it was VFR at the Airport, but I had to depart IFR to climb up to altitude. I climbed from about 2000 to 3000 AGL to clear blue skies on top, but that cloud base went for hundreds of miles and at one point I heard a VFR pilot that was stuck on top and called ATC for help. About 100nm west of where I departed I could see the end of the front and the ground, so I let ATC know, but about that time the pilot also found a hole and made it under the clouds.
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That wouldn’t have happened in east TX a few weeks back? I was IFR at 6k’ and heard a pilot trying to find out where the layer ended around Livingston. Center was trying to help and I heard a pirep advising their observation. He had to venture a bit out of his way to find a hole. The pilot seemed to be under a little stress and was not expecting to be caught out like that.
 
Half Fast said:
I haven't noticed that the forecasting has been any worse than its always been.
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Our EAA chapter organizes a good number of fly-outs every year, and they're planned as VFR-only events. That means that you start looking at the forecast 3-4 days out to decide if you cancel or change destinations.
Over the past 5 years, I've seen an increasing trend of last-minute cancellations due to the weather being significantly worse than forecast 2-3 days prior. Such as the forecast calling Sat and Sun clear days with 4000ft overcast And no rain on Monday. Then Fri night it calls for clear Sat morning, followed by a medium overcast in the afternoon. And you wake up Sat morning to a 500ft overcast and half mile visibility.
Now, this is a relatively small sample size, in the grand scheme of things, but there is a trend.
 
UngaWunga said:
How accurate do y'all find the https://aviationweather.gov/gfa/#clouds forecasts?
I'm trying to find days where the ceiling isn't too low and the cloud tops aren't too high to get some practice IFR in. I'd like to practice approaches starting for clear air.
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not sure where you are but 1800wxbrief, the weather channel and aviationweather.gov are pretty reasonable at searching out those lower mvfr days, atleast down here around the gulf. have a good look at the taf, forecast temps, prog and convective charts, should get you in the ballpark.

you can probably get a feel for it, down here during spring and a little fall, we get 1000 - 2000 foot ceilings every morning until about 11 ish, after which it's mostly goes skc or pretty close. now that is on days where it's not forecast to rain/thunderstorm, do not go play in thunderstorms.
 
Marginal VFR is IFR for me for anything but local flight. No muss, no fuss, no anxiety about scud running and terrain avoidance. It's that simple. MVFR XC is no fun at all, and potentially hazardous if the forecast is not accurate or visibility is poor.
 
bonefishpete said:
Not the same and you know that.
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True. It's not exactly the same. If you're rusty, you don't die with a SP in VMC.

As you get more chances to practice if with a SP vs solo in IMC, you'll also keep a higher proficiency.

If you want to do only IMC, Mazel Tov / live long and prosper. But you're miles ahead if you also do the more plentiful VMC safety pilot practicing.

Anyway, my POV FWIW.
 
WDD said:
True. It's not exactly the same.
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WDD said:
But you're miles ahead if you also do the more plentiful VMC safety pilot practicing.
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Don't know about you, but I find the type of vision limiting device makes a difference.

During 10-days of PIC "crash course" instrument training I used the Francis hood, and have advocated its use on pilots for decades. It's tougher than flying real IMC because there is zero peripheral vision inputs from the sides. Head motions must be slow and deliberate to point head in the right direction at the appropriate times (like horses wear pulling buggies on roadways). I believe it provides really good training to establish smooth head movements helping to counter any tendencies towards spatial disorientation. Once entering IMC without the Francis hood it's easier, and a pleasant transition into the real world.

The problem with the Francis hood is wearing glasses. I've modified mine but still find it uncomfortable, and have a student that has broken a little nose pad off his glasses, so it's time for this hood to be retired.

Any recommendations out there for a comfortable view limiting device that eliminates all side vision inputs, that also works well with eyeglasses? I've tried the glasses with the frosted side panels and don't find them nearly as effective.
 
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Rick A said:
Any recommendations out there for a comfortable view limiting device that eliminates all side vision inputs, that also works well with eyeglasses? I've tried the glasses with the frosted side panels and don't find them nearly as effective.
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Hey Rick,

I use this one... fits on to any baseball cap and doesn't interfere with the headset or the my readers...

www.sportys.com

Horizon Halo IFR Flying View Limiting Device

The Horizon Halo provides durable, strap-free IFR training with easy adjustments, prescription glasses compatibility, lightweight construction, and unmatched comfort for pilots.
www.sportys.com www.sportys.com
 
Rick A said:
Any recommendations out there for a comfortable view limiting device that eliminates all side vision inputs, that also works well with eyeglasses? I've tried the glasses with the frosted side panels and don't find them nearly as effective.
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I just close my eyes. The ILSs I’ve flown while sleeping were some of my best.

Granted, I crashed on the one in the simulator when I fell asleep.
 
 
For me it’s about altitude. In my Cherokee Six I like to be at minimum 3000 AGL anytime I leave the pattern so basically I file IFR almost every time I fly that airplane. Any lower than that and I don’t feel I have enough margin in the event of an engine failure. Of course I stay instrument current and proficient to be able to do this.
The J3 Cub is my sunny day cruising airplane so that basically only gets flown in clear & an million weather.
 
Know the forecast, look out the window, if it gets worse have your airport options to land in your situational awareness. Usually weather moves slow, if it’s daylight with good visibility, you can typically land as it gets worse. At least on the east coast flat lands.
 
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