Overhaul local or factory

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by brien23, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. brien23

    brien23 Line Up and Wait

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    You get what you pay for, or do you. Local overhaul might be the best overhaul mechanic since Charles Taylor so what do you get. If you sell your plane what kind of warranty goes with it, if any. How many people that are looking to buy a plane put what value in a local overhaul over a factory overhaul. What did they replace with new in a local overhaul, new cylinders, grind the crank how much, did they do the mags, starter, fuel system. If it needs work will the shop pay for anyone else to work on it or tell them to bring it back to them for repair, if that is the other side of the country that might be a problem. Sometimes your better off selling your plane with a high time engine and set the price accordingly.
     
  2. Salty

    Salty Pattern Altitude

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  3. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Got your parts sent out yet?
     
  4. Salty

    Salty Pattern Altitude

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    Just the case, which had the longest lead time. Too much going on with the holidays.
     
  5. edo2000

    edo2000 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I think staying local is a good idea, if the local shop does several engines every year and has a good reputation. It seems that the big-name engine shops have approximately as many complaints as the little guys do. I have purchased several overhauls over the years and always went with small to medium sized shops fairly close to me. Never had a problem. On the other hand, I wouldn't use an A&P who only does one engine every 2-3 years.
     
  6. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Going to keep your aircraft?

    Do it your self and say nothing.

    why would you care if the estate sells it for a dime?
     
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  7. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You don’t want me rebuilding an engine.

    I’ve been at the same Flightschool/club for almost 5 years and we’ve used a local guy to overhaul 6 engines in various airplanes. All been good experiences.
     
  8. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

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    Didn't @flyingron have a factory reman that blew a cylinder shortly after OH? Seems you pays your money and takes your chances either way.
     
  9. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Factory overhaul is going to cost you big bucks. The advantage is that the factory sees these engines everyday and know what to look for and will be replacing worn/broken parts with factory parts, not parts salvaged from a wreck or dubious source. I toured the Lycoming overhaul shop when I was a student in A&P school and the shop was clean, organized and professional. It looked like a clean room with no crankcases or half assembled engines lying on the floor. The other advantage that was mentioned earlier is the resale value. Not only is it the preferred method of overhaul, but the aircraft will most likely sell quicker when the Powerplant overhaul is a known quantity and will fetch a premium price. Just my .02
     
  10. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    To call any engine "overhauled" you must comply with 43.2.
    We field overhaulers must comply with the same rules as the factory.
     
  11. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Yea it’s a crapshoot either way.
     
  12. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No guarantees anywhere in life or flying. You just put your money where you believe the chance of success is highest.
     
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  13. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's all about the man turning the wrenches.

    I don't care about the marquee over the door, seen good and bad on both sides.

    I'd go off word of mouth and try to keep it local if you can, best to keep the money in your local area.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  14. brien23

    brien23 Line Up and Wait

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    Is it the cost of a factory overhaul that you don't like and if so how much do you believe a local overhaul should cost. Most of the big name overhaul shops charge as much or more than a factory overhaul. Just how much do you save on a local overhaul 25%, 50% or more you also save on shipping so that also helps.
     
  15. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Parts plus labor, machine work and shipping.
    Your local A&P will supervise.

    They are always the better deal.
     
  16. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ Final Approach

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    We just put our O-540-B2C5-C-A1D5 (250 HP) in with the same shop that did the overhaul 12yrs ago. We are over 2200hrs SMOH. $28K. We could not get a 250HP A1D5 engine on the Pawnee, would have had to revert back to 235HP with the Factory Reman and it would have cost us $10K more. We’ll keep the STCs alive that we paid for 12 yrs ago.
     
  17. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I've still not gotten a straight answer out of Continental or the NTSB on this. My engine was factory new with 900 hours or so. I had an exhaust valve break on the #2 cylinder. I put a FACTORY NEW cylinder and a reworked piston on. About three hours later the engine completely blowed up. Oddly, my (and my mechanics) own inspection of the engine tends to indicate it was NOT the replaced cylinder that went (or either bearing adjacent to that). Something badly disrupted the oil flow in the engine but it appears not to be the #1 or #2 cylinders.

    So we're left with:

    1. Something bad happened in the replacement of the cylinder that caused a clot in the oil system.
    2. Whatever that caused the valve to break in the first place was undetected when we tore into the engine (we did change the oil and cut the filter and found all of the broken valve).
    3. Something completely unrelated happened to the engine.

    The prelim report I got said the oil sender was leaking. This makes no sense. The engine didn't seize because all the oil ran out. In fact, it still probably had ten quarts based on the amount pouring out of the holes in the case after landing.
     
  18. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    I'm leaning towards going local, I like the idea of dropping in and seeing what's going on during the process. I haven't had the meeting yet with the partners, but I want to do a full firewall forward when we do the engine. Overhaul/reman everything, new oil/fuel/scat hoses, send the mount out for examination and powder coating, etc.
     
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  19. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    You may want to consider the appropriate use of question marks to improve reabability of your post.
     
  20. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Smart !
     
  21. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

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    Old and long but worth the watch. Engines haven't changed much since this was filmed.

     
  22. brien23

    brien23 Line Up and Wait

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    Factory new with 900 hours on it blew up, was the engine totaled and not rebuildable. We had a local overhaul on a O-320H engine that ate itself on the first oil change the local guy could not afford to back up his work and said he was sorry but nothing he could do. This is where factory backing up the engine counts over a local overhaul, how many local overhaul people could come up with the 30 or 40k to replace the engine that blew up. When we had a factory engine failure they sent another engine pro rated for hours used. They also gave us time for removal and installation of the engine, how many local shops can match that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  23. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Line Up and Wait

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    when i get the plane, i'm going to be very tempted to see if i can talk don into rebuilding one, if I don't just rotate junk engines through it (by mid time engines and run them out)
     
  24. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    As we say in NASCAR. Blowed up. Continental would give me nothing for the core, but gave me a half the core charge as good will for their suspect design.
    Those 9 hours were over 12 years, so there's no warranty. You think Continental actually stands behind their product?? They shipped out a whole slew of defective starter drives that I got screwed my when the engine was still fresh in warranty and they still stiffed me.

    [​IMG]#2 and #4 busted loose by ronsensor, on Flickr

    [​IMG]One of the pistons broke by ronsensor, on Flickr

    [​IMG]Two connecting rods. Note the melted off crank ends. by ronsensor, on Flickr
     
  25. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    Done blowed up GOOD! Damn.
     
  26. Norman

    Norman En-Route Gone West

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    What warranty do you offer on your overhauls?

    I'd recommend my customer go with a factory reman.
     
  27. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Yup...there are stories of both cases of folks ending up in the trees.

    My leaning is towards factory.....but that’s purely for resale value not reliability.
     
  28. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    So....maybe he wasnt doin it right?:eek:
     
  29. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    Ron's experience and me being an A&P is why I will be doing my own, I've also had the same make/model engine apart in school.

    Also managed to put together my own O-200 without it imploding, I think its got about 600 hours on it since then.
     
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  30. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    The 0-300 from hell, I overhauled 3 times on my own dime to get it right because of bad service from Premier Engines in Troutdale Or.
    To do so, I had to go to Bonner's Ferry Id to get the engine, take it back and install it.

    I'd do the local A&P, simply because I'd have control of where my good parts went, and what was done with them.
    Look up 43.2 and think of what the factory can do with the limits of the parts installed. You never get your own good parts back with a factory overhaul.
    I like using my good parts over and having control of them.
     
  31. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

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    @flyingron, what's the status of your Navion these days?
     
  32. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Getting close. The new IO-550-B is hung and they're putting the thing back together. I've kind of been distracted. I'm also in the process of building my house on the airpark here so I spend more time dealing with contractors than with mechanics.

    I do have a nice set of airplane jacks courtesy of iflyifr here.
     
  33. N659HB

    N659HB Pattern Altitude

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    Cool. Been quite awhile. I'd like to visit your airpark someday. On Lake Norman, correct?
     
  34. Bell206

    Bell206 Line Up and Wait

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    brien:
    The only place I saw/heard a difference between local and "factory" overhaul was on resale price negotiating. A good overhaul is a good overhaul regardless who did it.

    But from a negotiating side there really is no resale difference on an engine flown beyond or at the OEM overhaul recommendations whether its a factory or local O/H. At that point a "tired engine" is a tired engine even though it will fly another 1000 hours.

    It does change if you have an engine with 750HRs TSO on a factory overhaul as most people think a "factory anything" is better. But as they mentioned above, factory work and local work all suffer similar issues at times. But as you mentioned it is better to sell with a high time engine as you'll never recoup the full O/H cost in the sale price.
     
  35. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    Oh, yah, question marks greatly increase "reabability." Whatever the hell that is.

    Pot <-> Kettle. Work it out.
     
  36. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    I'm doing a O360 for my brother's Mooney myself. New cylinders, spinning stuff went to aircraft specialities, case to Central cylinder, mags to armark, carb was recently replaced with new by previous owner. It'll be less than $10k.
    Yes I've done it before and I'm a IA.
     
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  37. brien23

    brien23 Line Up and Wait

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    The PA-23 I bought years ago had the engines overhauled by a local A&P he did a great job as the engines went way over TBO without any problems. A good overhaul is just as good as the person doing it some good some not so good. Problem is how do I know you did a good job great job or poor overhaul, you don't and it does affect the resale price.
     
  38. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    Really all I'm doing is assembling it. Shops do all the work and issue yellow tags.
     
  39. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    Factory? Lycoming sí; Continental ... no.
     
  40. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Atta boy :) :)