Not returning calls

[JoseCuervo]

I have a similar story to Mark's about a car dealer. I was in my late 20s but probably looked like I was in my late teens. My mom wrecked her car and wanted me to find her a new one to buy. She wasn't up to car shopping yet but was ready to sign the check. I went to one dealer with this story and they wouldn't let me test drive it. I left and went to the another dealer across town who would. She bought it the next day.

Yep, I have walked out of multiple dealerships, for multiple reasons. That is why buying a car is such a brutal process these days. The Dealerships all have consultants that come in and set up "systems", and the salesman has no authority other than try and force you into compliance with the "system". Some customers are outliers and don't fit, but 98% do fit, and that is how they make their owners rich.

 

[kontiki]

I assume the lack of competition means you do business on their terms, what ever they are.

 

[midlifeflyer]

A better strategy is to take care of the really good customers, and keep them happy..

What good customers? The ones yo ignored when they frist came in as non-customers?

Of course you priority is the good customers they are your primary course of new customers. Of course, then that new referral walked in and you paid no attention to him, that's probably the end of the referrals when word gets back.

We obviously travel in very different worlds. in mine one always needs to develop new business; in yours, you have a stall of clients who never call you because you don't like that, but will never leave, and always keep you fed.

Frankly it sounds pretty boring.

 

[Timbeck2]

It's not just GA.

This.

<---- another Tim

I'm having my seats re-upholstered in leather. "When will they be finished?" "By the end of next week if not before." Yesterday was the end of the week. "How are my seats coming?" "They'll be ready by the end of next week." "NEXT week? You said that last week." "Well we just got the material in."



They don't bother to call if there is a problem or delay, you have to call them.

 

[JoseCuervo]

In the end, as a salesperson it behooves you to entertain anyone, because in the end, that's whet being a sales person is, being an entertainer. You entertain them into the purchase, might not be today, but you want your performance to be the most memorable when that day comes. Not every musician sells an album to every one they perform for either. Thing is, GA still does have that side to it, but it requires you walking in the door. It's a friendly business with tons of wasted time, once you walk through the door.



As for paying for overhead, gladly if it helps someone that helps me stay in business. That's what money is for.

You don't think there are people in GA that wouldn't be worth the effort to develop as customers?

Look at all the threads that get started on POA for the smallest perceived slight from a business!!!

"Waaaaahhhhh, they tried to charge me $7 for tie downs overnight after I ate 3 cookies, took 2 bottles of water, and refused to buy gas".

"Wahhhhhh, they wouldn't let me drive their crew car to go get lunch when I flew my Cheokee in, they said only the Kerosene burners get that...."

"Wahhhh, Sportys won't put a $12 item on Amazon for me so I can use a gift card my nephew gave me...."

 

[Timbeck2]

Another is ordering parts listed as "in stock" and paying for expedited shipment only to find out when you part doesn't show up when it was supposed to, that it is in "awaiting fulfillment" status which means it wasn't in stock at all.

 

[JoseCuervo]

There is one thing I always add to a contract, an over time penalty clause. I give them a fair time frame over run on their quote for things that inevitably come up; I've worked their job, I'm not unrealistic or unsympathetic, but time is money after all in our society, so it costs $XXX everyday for the over run.

I had a guy this Fall try and put a $5k per week liquidated damages time penalty into a contract. He thought he was a big swinging dick who got what he wanted.

He spent an hour yelling at me, and accusing me of being late on a project that wasn't started. I let him rant and rave, demand the $5k per week clause in the contract.

When he finally got done yelling, I got up, wished him luck on his project, and apologized for not being able to meet his terms.

The next day, his secretary delivered the signed contract to my office, without any sort of a penalty clause.

We finished the project on schedule, as agreed, and he never said a peep.

 

[Henning]

Yep, I have walked out of multiple dealerships, for multiple reasons. That is why buying a car is such a brutal process these days. The Dealerships all have consultants that come in and set up "systems", and the salesman has no authority other than try and force you into compliance with the "system". Some customers are outliers and don't fit, but 98% do fit, and that is how they make their owners rich.

That's no lie, I worked at a failing dealership, it failed because the majority/operating partner didn't believe in media advertising but every couple of weeks, he'd hire some consultant for $20k to bring in a 'system'. Most were laughable, but the final one that got me out of there was the "It's a Numbers Game" dude whose 'system to success' was to open the White Pages and cold call 100 people a day. We were given a minimum weekly quota of 250 calls, end of the week Larry asks, "How many of your calls have you made." "None" "You better get cracking, you have to get them done." "No, I don't. Now, it's your choice whether to keep me on or not, but the calls will not be made by me. This is complete stupidity to cold call the phone book trying to sell cars. I offered $120,000 dollars worth of failed programs ago that if you gave me a $70,000 annual advertising budget, I could put together an effective campaign. You don't want to advertise except in the paper for some reason I can't understand. Now, you can fire me, or give me $70k to save you, but these calls are not going to be made."

So he fired me (which I expected) and ended up closing the doors within 6 months. He thought the car business was as easy as selling oil leases, dumb ass.

 

[JoseCuervo]

What good customers? The ones yo ignored when they frist came in as non-customers?

Of course you priority is the good customers they are your primary course of new customers. Of course, then that new referral walked in and you paid no attention to him, that's probably the end of the referrals when word gets back.

We obviously travel in very different worlds. in mine one always needs to develop new business; in yours, you have a stall of clients who never call you because you don't like that, but will never leave, and always keep you fed.

Frankly it sounds pretty boring.

It is boring. That is why I hire sales people and employees to do the boring parts.

My role is not to provide them entertainment, but to provide them 26 semi-weekly paychecks each year, plus a safe work environment.

How I entertain myself is my challenge.

 

[JoseCuervo]

This.

<---- another Tim

I'm having my seats re-upholstered in leather. "When will they be finished?" "By the end of next week if not before." Yesterday was the end of the week. "How are my seats coming?" "They'll be ready by the end of next week." "NEXT week? You said that last week." "Well we just got the material in."



They don't bother to call if there is a problem or delay, you have to call them.

Communication is always important, and in many transactions, more important than cost or quality.


That being said, I do business with some people who are lousy communicators, lousy at keeping schedules, but have other attributes that make it worth the hassle factor. (good quality, or good price).

 

[Henning]

It is boring. That is why I hire sales people and employees to do the boring parts.

My role is not to provide them entertainment, but to provide them 26 semi-weekly paychecks each year, plus a safe work environment.

How I entertain myself is my challenge.

No worries, but that requires overhead which some people apparently are not willing to pay for. It's kinda mysterious since everybody makes their living as someone else's overhead, that's how our socio-economic system is structured. When everybody wants to play the game for themselves only, the entire system fails, kinda like it is.

 

[JoseCuervo]

That's no lie, I worked at a failing dealership, it failed because the majority/operating partner didn't believe in media advertising but every couple of weeks, he'd hire some consultant for $20k to bring in a 'system'. Most were laughable, but the final one that got me out of there was the "It's a Numbers Game" dude whose 'system to success' was to open the White Pages and cold call 100 people a day. We were given a minimum weekly quota of 250 calls, end of the week Larry asks, "How many of your calls have you made." "None" "You better get cracking, you have to get them done." "No, I don't. Now, it's your choice whether to keep me on or not, but the calls will not be made by me. This is complete stupidity to cold call the phone book trying to sell cars. I offered $120,000 dollars worth of failed programs ago that if you gave me a $70,000 annual advertising budget, I could put together an effective campaign. You don't want to advertise except in the paper for some reason I can't understand. Now, you can fire me, or give me $70k to save you, but these calls are not going to be made."



So he fired me (which I expected) and ended up closing the doors within 6 months. He thought the car business was as easy as selling oil leases, dumb ass.

One more car story.

Friend's daughter just got thru Paramedic school, just got hired full time on an ambulance, making really good money for a first "real job". She is young, cute, blonde, and a bit "ditzy".

She took her steroid-enhanced boyfriend with her to buy her first real car, with her newly developed credit score /buying ability.

She got ran thru the "system", and ended up buying a $42k 4-door Jeep (Rubicon????.) with thousands of $$$$ of extended warranties, undercoating, polyglycoat paint protections, factory floor mats, insurance for losing key fobs, and, best of all, credit life insurance that will pay off the car if she dies.

She is 24 has no dependents, and the dealership sold her life insurance for the duration of the loan.


If I would have heard about it when it happened, I would have driven her down and shoved the jeep up some Finance and Insurance guys south end.

 

[Henning]

One more car story.

Friend's daughter just got thru Paramedic school, just got hired full time on an ambulance, making really good money for a first "real job". She is young, cute, blonde, and a bit "ditzy".

She took her steroid-enhanced boyfriend with her to buy her first real car, with her newly developed credit score /buying ability.

She got ran thru the "system", and ended up buying a $42k 4-door Jeep (Rubicon????.) with thousands of $$$$ of extended warranties, undercoating, polyglycoat paint protections, factory floor mats, insurance for losing key fobs, and, best of all, credit life insurance that will pay off the car if she dies.

She is 24 has no dependents, and the dealership sold her life insurance for the duration of the loan.


If I would have heard about it when it happened, I would have driven her down and shoved the jeep up some Finance and Insurance guys south end.

Oyy, back end is what makes the money in new cars, not the sticker. Same dealership as prior; located next to Sheppard AFB, and we have an 'Airman Program'. I thought I would get fired for refusing to participate in this, but didn't because I moved enough new Cavaliers to them.

There is a finance company called, "The Finance Company" that specializes in enlisted military. Basically the deal is this, they take your grade, figure out half your income remaining on your enlistment, and offer you that at 18% and you sign them an allotment for that much (maximum DoD allows). The dealership gets 3 points of it. So, Larry buys a bunch of flashy crap at the auction, doubles the price of it, and divides the 'Airman Lot' into E-2, E-3... sections based on expected allotment potential. These cars weren't going to last a year, and these poor kids were going to be stuck giving up half their paycheck for the rest of their enlistment, typically 3 years (the kids that fall for this are not the brightest, so they may never get promoted to a higher pay grade). I refused to participate, anyone who spends more than 3 months in the car business has some time in hell coming. What level and how long is determined by how you treated people.

What I did was steered them into a new Cavalier at 1.9% and GM preferred pricing if they could come up with a co-signer. They ended up with lower payments, lower insurance, and good economical car with a warranty that would out last their payments.

Dealership didn't make the margin, but at least I was moving factory quota cars.

 

[ahkahn]

Yep, I have walked out of multiple dealerships, for multiple reasons. That is why buying a car is such a brutal process these days. The Dealerships all have consultants that come in and set up "systems", and the salesman has no authority other than try and force you into compliance with the "system". Some customers are outliers and don't fit, but 98% do fit, and that is how they make their owners rich.

I'm a very fair negotiator. I make sure all parties are getting a good deal. My only personal exception is car dealerships. They are absolute scum of the Earth and it is either screw or be screwed.

I had done work in the past in a few car dealerships and have overheard many transactions take place. Best part was that I was literally within earshot of both the customer/salesman conversation and the salesman/sales mgr conversation. Some were so bad I nearly walked into the customers and told them to walk out. Absolute SCUMBAGS. I'm not talking about corner lots, either. I'm talking about the bright, polished, well-known new car dealerships.

It's hit close to home too... Last year my father-in-law got screwed so bad by one (payed $3000 OVER STICKER, and didn't realize it) that my wife made me go in there with him the next day to renegotiate the deal. It was outside of the 24 hour remorse clause, so it was an uphill battle. After 4 hours of yelling at the manager, threatening the world on him, and then making him lose a deal on a customer that was waiting to speak with him, he finally conceded and returned the $3000 via check to my FIL. Wasn't the best deal, but at least I got him back down to sticker. BTW, it took about 2 months to get that check back... dirtbags.

 

[Henning]

I'm a very fair negotiator. I make sure all parties are getting a good deal. My only personal exception is car dealerships. They are absolute scum of the Earth and it is either screw or be screwed.

I had done work in the past in a few car dealerships and have overheard many transactions take place. Best part was that I was literally within earshot of both the customer/salesman conversation and the salesman/sales mgr conversation. Some were so bad I nearly walked into the customers and told them to walk out. Absolute SCUMBAGS. I'm not talking about corner lots, either. I'm talking about the bright, polished, well-known new car dealerships.

It's hit close to home too... Last year my father-in-law got screwed so bad by one (payed $3000 OVER STICKER, and didn't realize it) that my wife made me go in there with him the next day to renegotiate the deal. It was outside of the 24 hour remorse clause, so it was an uphill battle. After 4 hours of yelling at the manager, threatening the world on him, and then making him lose a deal on a customer that was waiting to speak with him, he finally conceded and returned the $3000 via check to my FIL. Wasn't the best deal, but at least I got him back down to sticker. BTW, it took about 2 months to get that check back... dirtbags.

Unfortunately this condition exists. It is not total, the universal 80/20 split applies here as well. Unfortunately the "good guys" make up the 20 in the industry.

If you don't know the players personally, there are some things to look for in a dealership to hedge your bet. The biggest clue is how long they have been in business in that neighborhood, long term, and multi generation dealerships don't happen when run unethically, or abusively, they usually run out of customers in 5 years, 10 in a growing market. Look around the neighborhood, see how many cars they sell bear their sticker/license plate frame vs their competitor in the next market over. If you see a bunch of competitors represented, that is a big clue. The neighborhood knows who's ****ing whom.

 

[wsuffa]

Oyy, back end is what makes the money in new cars, not the sticker. Same dealership as prior; located next to Sheppard AFB, and we have an 'Airman Program'. I thought I would get fired for refusing to participate in this, but didn't because I moved enough new Cavaliers to them.

There is a finance company called, "The Finance Company" that specializes in enlisted military. Basically the deal is this, they take your grade, figure out half your income remaining on your enlistment, and offer you that at 18% and you sign them an allotment for that much (maximum DoD allows). The dealership gets 3 points of it. So, Larry buys a bunch of flashy crap at the auction, doubles the price of it, and divides the 'Airman Lot' into E-2, E-3... sections based on expected allotment potential. These cars weren't going to last a year, and these poor kids were going to be stuck giving up half their paycheck for the rest of their enlistment, typically 3 years (the kids that fall for this are not the brightest, so they may never get promoted to a higher pay grade). I refused to participate, anyone who spends more than 3 months in the car business has some time in hell coming. What level and how long is determined by how you treated people.

What I did was steered them into a new Cavalier at 1.9% and GM preferred pricing if they could come up with a co-signer. They ended up with lower payments, lower insurance, and good economical car with a warranty that would out last their payments.

Dealership didn't make the margin, but at least I was moving factory quota cars.

In many places the military base identifies predatory behavior on the part of certain businesses (including car dealers) and lists those places as "off limits" to personnel. The businesses are never happy about it but brought it on themselves.


http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/23/norfolk-car-dealership-off-limits-to-military.html

I'm a very fair negotiator. I make sure all parties are getting a good deal. My only personal exception is car dealerships. They are absolute scum of the Earth and it is either screw or be screwed.

I am the customer they love to hate. I pay cash for vehicles & demand we negotiate price before talking how it will be financed. The sales folks usually walk away when I mention "X-plan" or "A-plan" (when shopping a vehicle where that applies). I've used shopping services and bought through the fleet supplier to our company.

Last deal I did, I negotiated fully online to get the exact vehicle I wanted and saved the showroom confrontation - in the end, they beat the Friends and Family number (I stopped using them for service after hearing the GM tell the service manager to drag his feet & cut no deals on maintenance for one customer that had given them less than "Far Exceeds" on the satisfaction survey for a previous visit).

In some cities, there are buying services that will negotiate for new car for you - it'll cost a fee of a hundred or two hundred bucks, but really helps in places where the dealerships are all co-owned and no competition exists. For used cars, CarMax is a better experience though you won't get rock-bottom pricing.

And then there was the one where my ex- and I went in to shop for a vehicle. the salesman stared at her chest the entire time we were there. We walked out. I learned later that a friend that visited the same dealer was stuck there when the sales person who was checking out their "trade" threw the keys on the roof so they couldn't leave - the consumer licensing office later cited the dealer for that kind of behavior with multiple customers.... one called the cops on them.

 

[RalphInCA]

C


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ahkahn]

In many places the military base identifies predatory behavior on the part of certain businesses (including car dealers) and lists those places as "off limits" to personnel. The businesses are never happy about it but brought it on themselves.


http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/23/norfolk-car-dealership-off-limits-to-military.html


I am the customer they love to hate. I pay cash for vehicles & demand we negotiate price before talking how it will be financed. The sales folks usually walk away when I mention "X-plan" or "A-plan" (when shopping a vehicle where that applies). I've used shopping services and bought through the fleet supplier to our company.

Last deal I did, I negotiated fully online to get the exact vehicle I wanted and saved the showroom confrontation - in the end, they beat the Friends and Family number (I stopped using them for service after hearing the GM tell the service manager to drag his feet & cut no deals on maintenance for one customer that had given them less than "Far Exceeds" on the satisfaction survey for a previous visit).

In some cities, there are buying services that will negotiate for new car for you - it'll cost a fee of a hundred or two hundred bucks, but really helps in places where the dealerships are all co-owned and no competition exists. For used cars, CarMax is a better experience though you won't get rock-bottom pricing.

And then there was the one where my ex- and I went in to shop for a vehicle. the salesman stared at her chest the entire time we were there. We walked out. I learned later that a friend that visited the same dealer was stuck there when the sales person who was checking out their "trade" threw the keys on the roof so they couldn't leave - the consumer licensing office later cited the dealer for that kind of behavior with multiple customers.... one called the cops on them.

Yep, I do the same thing. I walk in there and don't screw around. The very first thing I do is look at the salesman and say, "I've done all my homework, I know the deal I want. If your manager plays his cards right, you'll get the sale. If he thinks he is going to play games, I'll walk so fast your head will spin. Here is my price. You either want it or you don't."

My current vehicle the manager started to screw around. I got up and walked out. He ran out the door, caught me opening the door to my car, said I'll do it, please don't leave. We signed the papers. Funny thing is that the F&I manager looks at me and says, "I'm not even going to waste your time. Just sign these papers. I'm sure you don't want any add-ons!" Nope and thanks. The sales manager did get me back though... made me wait 4 hours while they "prepped" the car. Kept telling me it was going to be another 10 minutes or so. I had already signed the papers or else I would have walked at that point. I really didn't care though... I had paid the bottom of the TrueCar bell curve... about $2000 under the "TrueCar" price.

Also, watch out for TrueCar now. They're either owned or controlled by the dealer association (just like KBB ). It's a good tool, but doesn't have the credibility it once did.

 

[ejensen]

Text or e-mail.

Voice calling is bordering on rude.

Interesting thought. My mechanic called the other day to schedule my annual. I asked if he'd seen my e-mail. Nope, doesn't read it much. But he'll call back within a few hours. And forget texts.

As other comments say, maybe generational. Seeing two students walking together both texting still amazes me. Are they texting each other?

 

[cowman]

Interesting thought. My mechanic called the other day to schedule my annual. I asked if he'd seen my e-mail. Nope, doesn't read it much. But he'll call back within a few hours. And forget texts.

As other comments say, maybe generational. Seeing two students walking together both texting still amazes me. Are they texting each other?

I would generally prefer to work in email/text messages but so many people don't check it(or maybe pretend they never saw it) that you almost have to use the phone unless you've got a good working relationship with someone who you know will respond.

 

[coloradobluesky]

What kind of success are people having NOT going into the dealership but doing the whole deal over the phone? The dealer knows me and I am going to try this next time. Can I ask for the "fleet manager", make my offer of 500 over cost and tell them to call me back if they can do the deal?

 

[wsuffa]

What kind of success are people having NOT going into the dealership but doing the whole deal over the phone? The dealer knows me and I am going to try this next time. Can I ask for the "fleet manager", make my offer of 500 over cost and tell them to call me back if they can do the deal?

Dunno, but I can say my deal over the internet went well.

 

[yetti]

If anyone is looking for a Toyota or Chevy in Texas I had the best car buying no reindeer game experience ever. I would even help facilitate the deal. It really was that enjoyable of an experience.

 

[ahkahn]

What kind of success are people having NOT going into the dealership but doing the whole deal over the phone? The dealer knows me and I am going to try this next time. Can I ask for the "fleet manager", make my offer of 500 over cost and tell them to call me back if they can do the deal?

The Internet managers who are in charge of negotiating the deals via the website leads have significantly more authority than even the showroom sales managers. They are looked at within the dealership as the "icing on the cake" sales channel... they get the deals that would otherwise go somewhere else. You will have a much easier and more fruitful experience dealing with them rather than the old "walk in the door" approach.

I did all of my shopping and negotiating with the Internet people and then had my ducks in a row. The dealership closest to me had the exact vehicle I wanted, and I wanted to test drive it before I bought it. I walked in the door with pricing already negotiated with about 4 other dealerships, so that gave me the upper hand as I walked through the door. That's how I basically took the attitude of "it's your deal to lose". They hate that.

 

[cowman]

Used cars: go to ebay, log in(you need an account for this), select search for "completed listings" I think it's under advanced search or something like this. This search mode will let you look at cars that have already sold. You will be seeing what the vehicle you are interested for is actually selling for and quickly get an idea of the bottom dollar.

Offer that amount to the dealer. If they're honest they'll probably take it without much argument.


New cars: Find the invoice price, edmunds used to have it, probably still does. Invoice should be the most you are willing to pay. Dealers make money when they sell cars at invoice... invoice ins't the same thing as cost. IMO, anything you can negotiate below invoice is a good deal.

Sticker is meaningless, kelly blue book is inflated, never start a negotiation without knowing what the vehicle is worth. That's all I got.

 

[weilke]

Couple of weeks ago I went to a dealer to test drive and get the price on a truck. Sales guy quoted me $500 below sticker as an 'incentive'. I chuckled, thanked him for his time and walked out. He could have sold a truck that day, but why bother.
9 years ago, I bought only dealing with the internet sales managers of different dealers. Ended up buying local at the lowest price +200.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Apparently the dealers in Texas from Houston to San Antonio are awash with pickup trucks, after the oil industry collapse.

Anyone in the market for an F150 might start by calling the small-town dealers in those areas who got stuck with dozens of trucks after the oil companies abruptly shut down.

 

[denverpilot]

What kind of success are people having NOT going into the dealership but doing the whole deal over the phone? The dealer knows me and I am going to try this next time. Can I ask for the "fleet manager", make my offer of 500 over cost and tell them to call me back if they can do the deal?

Fax machine. Find three dealerships with the exact vehicles you want via the Internet, send a fax to all three stating the exact model, color, and options you want leaving no detail out, state your price, and tell them in the letter that the first to call you back agreeing to the terms gets the sale. Don't mention which dealerships it was sent to.

You'll have a call back from the Internet manager in less than an hour with a yes, if they can do it. Last time I did this my first call back was the Internet manager apologizing that he needed $80 more to make the sale. On a brand new car. I knew I'd hit the margin number right.

They don't know what to do with a fax. It goes to the Internet sales manager to decide. Just like any business, break their normal "process", especially these days when employees aren't empowered to do jack squat, and the underlings have to go running to a manager to figure out what to do.

Apparently the dealers in Texas from Houston to San Antonio are awash with pickup trucks, after the oil industry collapse.

Anyone in the market for an F150 might start by calling the small-town dealers in those areas who got stuck with dozens of trucks after the oil companies abruptly shut down.

An F-150 isn't a real truck. That's a car with good ground clearance. How's their stock of F-250 and even better, F-350 diesels?

The F-150 is what my wife drives to the grocery store. Hahahaha. (Technically hers is a Lincoln LT, same thing. Just has more chrome. And a very large class action lawsuit on the pizz poor design of the block and spark plugs seizing in the 5.8L.)

A friend just bought a used oilfield truck (F-250 Super Cab diesel) that was flawless other than the interior, because it was actually used as a work truck.

He parked it in his garage for three weeks and ordered all the parts to completely gut and replace the interior -- saved tens of thousands of dollars and ended up with a great truck for next to nothing because no dealer could sell it on the used lots without doing the same work, and none wanted to be bothered with it. He doesn't have a wholesale license so be managed to catch it before it went to auction.

After a couple thousand in interior parts, he was barely above wholesale prices on it. He added "dynamat" style sound deadening material behind every carpet, panel, and everywhere like he was building a "boom boom" bass stereo show car while he was in there, and it's the quietest riding F-250 I've ever sat in.

 

[Henning]

In many places the military base identifies predatory behavior on the part of certain businesses (including car dealers) and lists those places as "off limits" to personnel. The businesses are never happy about it but brought it on themselves.

It's actually what finally put him out of business, I warned him when he got into the deal that it was unethical, immoral, and to top it off, with the crap he was turning to them for beyond top dollar, predatory. He was a dumb ass, the fact that I was a course marshal on the SAFB golf course and played with the General a couple times a week and happened to mention he may want to look out for his new airmen and warn them about car buying may have sped his demise, but not by much. The place was already in full failure when I arrived, when the airmen boycotted, it was all over.

I met the silent partner at the Christmas party, he has a bunch of car and RV dealership franchises that he provides as a 49% partner, the 51% partner provides everything but. "Why do you keep this idiot for a partner?" "Doesn't really affect me much, I have enough out there that one guy failing doesn't hurt me, and I still have the franchise. Everything that gets lost is his. Usually the guys that fail do so in 5 years, and usually I make out ok in that time." "Fair enough. So you know he's an idiot?" "From way back when he was selling his grandpa's leases." "Ok, well nice to meet you." "Likewise."

 

[Jay Honeck]

An F-150 isn't a real truck. That's a car with good ground clearance. How's their stock of F-250 and even better, F-350 diesels?

I have beat the crap out of my 2007 F150 for years. I take it 4-wheeling on the beach regularly, off road occasionally. I've used it as a mobile workbench throughout the hotel project, cutting countless pieces on its tailgate. I've hauled many tons of remodeling rubble and yard cuttings to the dump in it.

It's never failed me.

At 120K miles, I broke down and got 'er tuned up. The spark plugs came out, no problem, thankfully. It runs perfectly.

It's all the truck I need.