Not returning calls

And just in case you are wondering just because they are good mechanics does not mean they are great at technology or communications in general. I paid more for my annual inspection than the IA was asking because I did not think he was charging enough and I had bugged him in the past with questions he did not charge me for. Try that approach and see if you don't get a response.
 
yetti said:
And just in case you are wondering just because they are good mechanics does not mean they are great at technology or communications in general. I paid more for my annual inspection than the IA was asking because I did not think he was charging enough and I had bugged him in the past with questions he did not charge me for. Try that approach and see if you don't get a response.
Click to expand...

$100 bill tips make the yachting world go round, that's for damned sure, especially in the Bahamas if you want a good spot. It's getting to the point you have to know origami with them to get noticed.:lol:
 
Good mechanics are too busy to answer phonecalls. If the guy has time fo answer the phone, he is not the one you want working on your plane.
 
weilke said:
Good mechanics are too busy to answer phonecalls. If the guy has time fo answer the phone, he is not the one you want working on your plane.
Click to expand...

The one you want has someone answering the phone.
 
I have the same problem where I live. I'm so used to getting good service from other vendors I've worked with that when I first started the search for a reliable mechanic I was shocked.

I attributed lack of communication with lack of skill and that isn't always the case. Ultimately I've learned to accept that some places will be better at communication then others.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Like most apocryphal stories, they are illustrative rather than real.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I actually experienced a reverse on it once. I was sent to go buy a boat, I had a bank draft in my pocket if it checked out. I went to the marina I knew the boat was in, and I walked into one of the brokers since it was an open listing, "I want to see La Belle." He looks at me, I'm 27 at the time, long haired boat trash. "I don't have time." Ok, walk 3 doors down to the next broker, same process, "Sure, let's go." Did a $1.5MM deal that day. Since it was an open listing, the selling broker got the full 10%. The other broker was standing at the top of the dock as I left with the boat shaking his head, made me chuckle.
 
Thanks, all, for the responses. Walking in the door isn't really an option in most of these cases. They are either in another state, or far off ... or have only a sign that says "Hangar space" and a number. I may have more time than I thought, anyways, because the pre-buy showed low compression in one cylinder. Want to speak with the mechanic about that.
 
Frogs97 said:
Thanks, all, for the responses. Walking in the door isn't really an option in most of these cases. They are either in another state, or far off ... or have only a sign that says "Hangar space" and a number. I may have more time than I thought, anyways, because the pre-buy showed low compression in one cylinder. Want to speak with the mechanic about that.
Click to expand...


Cylinder is $900 to replace. Don't let it slow you down.
 
Henning said:
The one you want has someone answering the phone.
Click to expand...

So you pay that overhead too ? The bookkeeping girl picking up the phone doesnt get me the answer I need the mechanic for. Thats like the banks where you have lots of calltakers but very few bankers.

I found that people who use an AOL email address tend to answer their messages only once a week.
 
Frogs97 said:
Thanks, all, for the responses. Walking in the door isn't really an option in most of these cases. They are either in another state, or far off ... or have only a sign that says "Hangar space" and a number. I may have more time than I thought, anyways, because the pre-buy showed low compression in one cylinder. Want to speak with the mechanic about that.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm confused, you are trying to rent a hangar in another state? Well, that does make walking in the door more difficult, unfortunately that doesn't make it less necessary. I went through that before securing a hangar at the far end of a commute. I ended up have to pull up on the ramp and find somebody, "Hey, I work 28&14 for Cal Dive, and need someplace to stick this for my 28 on." Since it was a Midget Mustang he just stuck it under a wing of another plane in the hangar and said , "Don't worry about it, it's too small to charge for."
 
weilke said:
I found that people who use an AOL email address tend to answer their messages only once a week.
Click to expand...

I've actually had the opposite experience. Although there aren't that many these days with an AOL address, all the ones I interact with are very quick to get back.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, I actually experienced a reverse on it once. I was sent to go buy a boat, I had a bank draft in my pocket if it checked out. I went to the marina I knew the boat was in, and I walked into one of the brokers since it was an open listing, "I want to see La Belle." He looks at me, I'm 27 at the time, long haired boat trash. "I don't have time." Ok, walk 3 doors down to the next broker, same process, "Sure, let's go." Did a $1.5MM deal that day. Since it was an open listing, the selling broker got the full 10%. The other broker was standing at the top of the dock as I left with the boat shaking his head, made me chuckle.
Click to expand...
On the "it exists everywhere" theme, cars: I was barely 17, looked about 12, and was taking Driver's Ed. We had an assignment - go to a dealer and ask about the real price of a new car, as opposed to the sticker price. It was designed to show us there was a difference and price was negotiable. The salesman took one look at me and dismissed me saying, "Go get your father."

So I reported what I learned back to the class: "I learned there's a dealer I'll never buy a car from."
 
midlifeflyer said:
On the "it exists everywhere" theme, cars: I was barely 17, looked about 12, and was taking Driver's Ed. We had an assignment - go to a dealer and ask about the real price of a new car, as opposed to the sticker price. It was designed to show us there was a difference and price was negotiable. The salesman took one look at me and dismissed me saying, "Go get your father."

So I reported what I learned back to the class: "I learned there's a dealer I'll never buy a car from."
Click to expand...



And a salesman learned that telling non-buyers to leave allowed him more time to service the actual buying customers.

For every Henning walking in with a cashiers check in his cargo shorts, there are many more dreamers with 580 credit scores.

Good sales people develop the skill. In Hennings case, the fact he was asking about a specific boat was a clue that the first broker should have picked up on.
 
JoseCuervo said:
And a salesman learned that telling non-buyers to leave allowed him more time to service the actual buying customers.

For every Henning walking in with a cashiers check in his cargo shorts, there are many more dreamers with 580 credit scores.

Good sales people develop the skill. In Hennings case, the fact he was asking about a specific boat was a clue that the first broker should have picked up on.
Click to expand...

Most 'dreamers' also ask about $20,000 boats, not $2MM ones. However, that really is irrelevant to being a good salesman. A good salesman will go ahead and waste his time on dreamers and invest some time in fostering their dreams, (It's not like the life of a yacht broker is action packed) because guess what, 10% of them will have a future change in situation that will let them fulfill that dream. Who do you think they're coming to? Yacht sales is is worse than real estate for deal scarcity, the business is all about fostering future deals. Really, every sales position is that.

I took a job selling motorcycles an the weekends for an owner who owned a couple stores. One dude 30 something walks in and is asking me about the CR-250 on the floor, this thing is a raging machine compared to a CR-250 when I was growing up, and it was a beast then. So as we're talking I get the sense he doesn't have much experience. "What do ride now?" "This'll be my first bike, I want to start riding with some friends." So I steer him over to a XL-175 4 stroke DP machine to start out on and sell him that.

Later on I'm talking to the owner and the GM walks in and starts complaining that I sold the dude the cheaper bike when he was ready to buy the expensive one. I looked at him, "I could have sold him that bike, and this weekend he'd scare the crap out of himself and probably hurt himself and never ride again. The bike I Sold him, he'll go out and have a blast with his buddies this weekend, he'll buy accessories for the next year for it, and next year I'll sell him the 250. Not only that, I did the guy so right, that when his buddies are ready for a new bike, they'll come see me as well." He just walked out, owner was chuckling, "Why is it you keep him as GM?" "He's my son in law."
 
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JoseCuervo said:
And a salesman learned that telling non-buyers to leave allowed him more time to service the actual buying customers.
Click to expand...
It was mid-day on a weekday. Multiple salesmen with no customers.

But that aside, don't you think a good sales strategy is about developing future business? Or is it just about making a sale today?

Those are rhetorical questions.

...and I see Henning already pointed that out.
 
JoseCuervo said:
And a salesman learned that telling non-buyers to leave allowed him more time to service the actual buying customers.
Click to expand...

I have a similar story to Mark's about a car dealer. I was in my late 20s but probably looked like I was in my late teens. My mom wrecked her car and wanted me to find her a new one to buy. She wasn't up to car shopping yet but was ready to sign the check. I went to one dealer with this story and they wouldn't let me test drive it. I left and went to the another dealer across town who would. She bought it the next day.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It was mid-day on a weekday. Multiple salesmen with no customers.

But that aside, don't you think a good sales strategy is about developing future business? Or is it just about making a sale today?

Those are rhetorical questions.

...and I see Henning already pointed that out.
Click to expand...

Business today is all about this quarter's numbers. A/K/A pump and dump.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It was mid-day on a weekday. Multiple salesmen with no customers.

But that aside, don't you think a good sales strategy is about developing future business? Or is it just about making a sale today?

Those are rhetorical questions.

...and I see Henning already pointed that out.
Click to expand...

Exactly, a yacht broker may get three people to pop their head in on a weekend. "Dude, it's not like you were busy." We're not talking Best Buy on Black Friday here, it's not a volume industry, and neither is aviation. It's really just laziness and ego is all.
 
wsuffa said:
Business today is all about this quarter's numbers. A/K/A pump and dump.
Click to expand...

Yep, which is why the Chinese beat us, they look and plan to the future, they are not an Apocalyptic cult like the west.
 
weilke said:
Good mechanics are too busy to answer phonecalls. If the guy has time fo answer the phone, he is not the one you want working on your plane.
Click to expand...

weilke said:
So you pay that overhead too ? The bookkeeping girl picking up the phone doesnt get me the answer I need the mechanic for. Thats like the banks where you have lots of calltakers but very few bankers.

I found that people who use an AOL email address tend to answer their messages only once a week.
Click to expand...

So who do you use? You won't use a guy that answers the phone, and you won't use a guy that has someone else answer the phone.
 
Everskyward said:
I have a similar story to Mark's about a car dealer. I was in my late 20s but probably looked like I was in my late teens. My mom wrecked her car and wanted me to find her a new one to buy. She wasn't up to car shopping yet but was ready to sign the check. I went to one dealer with this story and they wouldn't let me test drive it. I left and went to the another dealer across town who would. She bought it the next day.
Click to expand...

One of my brother's friends from high school won a few million in the lottery very soon after graduation. He wanted a Hummer, so he goes to the dealership here in town, and asks to test drive one. They laugh him out of the dealership. So he gets in his car, drives an hour plus (might have been two hours) to the next city that had a Hummer dealer at the time. Buys it that day - cash, and drives it back to the dealership that originally laughed him off the lot. Asks to talk to the manager/owner and tells him to call all his salespeople over. Calls out the salespeople in front of the owner, and explains what he had to do to get his Hummer that day and how he will never buy anything from them.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The story told for many years is the one about the woman who walks into an FBO to talk about taking flying lessons. Everyone in the office seems to be busy with something and no one even has the sense to ask, "can I help you?"

Finally, in frustration, the physician leaves, hops in her late model Mercedes, heads to the waterfront, takes boating lessons and buys a yacht.
Click to expand...

Small airport FBOs amaze me with their lack of customer service. You often get better service from a teenager at a fast food restaurant. An FBO is the only place where you can walk in, lay down $1000 in cash on the front counter, and they completely ignore you. Or worse yet, they all stop talking and just stare down the "outsider" like a creepy scene from Deliverance.
 
In the end, as a salesperson it behooves you to entertain anyone, because in the end, that's whet being a sales person is, being an entertainer. You entertain them into the purchase, might not be today, but you want your performance to be the most memorable when that day comes. Not every musician sells an album to every one they perform for either. Thing is, GA still does have that side to it, but it requires you walking in the door.:dunno: It's a friendly business with tons of wasted time, once you walk through the door.

As for paying for overhead, gladly if it helps someone that helps me stay in business. That's what money is for.
 
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This is my #1 gripe with businesses these days. This is also why I try to DIY stuff as much as I can, it almost takes me less time to learn how to do something, go out and buy the materials/tools, then do it myself than it does to get someone to show up and do something for me.

Without fail I always run into the dilemma of whether or not to keep calling and pestering someone or just be patient. Seems like it's nearly guaranteed if I'm patient they just forget about me and stuff doesn't get done.

It's not just GA either it's everyone. Construction workers, mechanics, tractor dealers, insurance companies, lawyers(dealing with time sensitive stuff too), and the list goes on...

It really feels like most businesses I call act like I'm asking them for a favor too. I sure feel treated that way a lot of the time. I'm paying them, they're setting the price... I don't expect to be bowed down to but at least do the thing you said you would close to the time you said or let me know if you can't? I don't feel like that's an unreasonable expectation.
 
EdFred said:
So who do you use? You won't use a guy that answers the phone, and you won't use a guy that has someone else answer the phone.
Click to expand...

The guy who doesn't answer the phone because he is busy working on planes. Of course, it helps if he returns calls after he listens to his answering machine (or even sends an email from his AOL account).



I do understand why maintenance providers dont waste their time with prospective buyers talking about hypotheticals (it's called the 'Ben effect'). Once you have a plane and actual billable work for them, they'll return your calls.
 
No matter at what level, people act out of ego and with a sense of entitlement, because that's the values we as a society hold most dear.
 
cowman said:
This is my #1 gripe with businesses these days. This is also why I try to DIY stuff as much as I can, it almost takes me less time to learn how to do something, go out and buy the materials/tools, then do it myself than it does to get someone to show up and do something for me.

Without fail I always run into the dilemma of whether or not to keep calling and pestering someone or just be patient. Seems like it's nearly guaranteed if I'm patient they just forget about me and stuff doesn't get done.

It's not just GA either it's everyone. Construction workers, mechanics, tractor dealers, insurance companies, lawyers(dealing with time sensitive stuff too), and the list goes on...

It really feels like most businesses I call act like I'm asking them for a favor too. I sure feel treated that way a lot of the time. I'm paying them, they're setting the price... I don't expect to be bowed down to but at least do the thing you said you would close to the time you said or let me know if you can't? I don't feel like that's an unreasonable expectation.
Click to expand...
With this last 5-year hotel renovation project, I literally had to learn all the trades. If I had relied on contractors, I would still be on the tenth room, and would have spent 5x the money. In the end, I did 98% of the work myself, simply because it was faster and better to do so.

Here's a cautionary aviation tale: I have a friend who (foolishly, IMHO) gave a reputable avionics shop a $10,000 check a month ago for a panel redo in his new (to him) airplane. As of yesterday, they have cashed the check, ignored his phone calls and emails, and have yet to even schedule the work.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The story told for many years is the one about the woman who walks into an FBO to talk about taking flying lessons. Everyone in the office seems to be busy with something and no one even has the sense to ask, "can I help you?"
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: +1 on this one. I had this happen to me not once but twice trying to finish up my PPL.:yikes: I had better luck the third time.:devil: Never had to try so hard to spend my money...:dunno:
 
Henning said:
Ok, I'm confused, you are trying to rent a hangar in another state? Well, that does make walking in the door more difficult, unfortunately that doesn't make it less necessary. I went through that before securing a hangar at the far end of a commute. I ended up have to pull up on the ramp and find somebody, "Hey, I work 28&14 for Cal Dive, and need someplace to stick this for my 28 on." Since it was a Midget Mustang he just stuck it under a wing of another plane in the hangar and said , "Don't worry about it, it's too small to charge for."
Click to expand...

The hangars have been the biggest frustration. There are a ton of T-hangars at the airport where I learned, with two different leasing companies putting up signs. No call backs, and no address. Called another airport, the very nice lady has a waiting list, but gave me the name of a woman in FL whose family owns some hangars on the field and looking to lease. No call back. The avionics shop that was recommended answered the phone initially, had a great conversation on what I needed, and I sent over pics of the panel. Nothing, and won't return calls. The mechanic that someone recommended for the pre-buy wouldn't return my call until they got a call from the person that recommended him to me.

At least I can take some comfort that it's not just me.
 
Recently i decide to send my mags in for 500 hr inspections. I ask my AP who he recommends and got a shop name and number to call. I start calling to make arrangements but no return calls. After a week of calling twice a day i tell AP i am reluctant to do business with a shop i cant talk to.

His response:
"Ah yeah, it just two guys there. They are a little eccentric :)eek:). Just send the mags in and they will call you". Trusting my AP we sent them in. A week after the shop had them a guy calls. "Mags are ready bill is $$$. We ship them out today".

It all turned out ok and the fees were reasonable but i swear, that is one hell of a way to run a business.
 
They rather fix mags than talk about fixing mags.

Thats different from POA I guess.
 
kgruber said:
Text or e-mail.

Voice calling is bordering on rude.
Click to expand...

seriously?

If a business doesn't want someone calling and actually talking, then don't publish the phone number.

Sometimes the customer has questions and an actual conversation makes the whole interaction proceed much faster.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Please don't ever call me and leave me a voicemail. Nothing worse than somebody giving you information on a voicemail that you then have to write down. Just text me or email the information to me, and I am good to go.

I finally got my voicemail full of 100 messages, so it no longer accepts any new messages.
Click to expand...

wow - actually having to write something down?

I hope you will endeavor to persevere.

:rolleyes2:


(otoh - don't ya love the people who t a l k s l o w l y w h e n l e a v i n g a m e s s a g e and then machinegun the callback number?)
 
If it looks like a tire kicker, walks like a tire kicker, quacks like a tire kicker

Money talks.
 
Henning said:
Most 'dreamers' also ask about $20,000 boats, not $2MM ones. However, that really is irrelevant to being a good salesman. A good salesman will go ahead and waste his time on dreamers and invest some time in fostering their dreams, (It's not like the life of a yacht broker is action packed) because guess what, 10% of them will have a future change in situation that will let them fulfill that dream. Who do you think they're coming to? Yacht sales is is worse than real estate for deal scarcity, the business is all about fostering future deals. Really, every sales position is that.



I took a job selling motorcycles an the weekends for an owner who owned a couple stores. One dude 30 something walks in and is asking me about the CR-250 on the floor, this thing is a raging machine compared to a CR-250 when I was growing up, and it was a beast then. So as we're talking I get the sense he doesn't have much experience. "What do ride now?" "This'll be my first bike, I want to start riding with some friends." So I steer him over to a XL-175 4 stroke DP machine to start out on and sell him that.



Later on I'm talking to the owner and the GM walks in and starts complaining that I sold the dude the cheaper bike when he was ready to buy the expensive one. I looked at him, "I could have sold him that bike, and this weekend he'd scare the crap out of himself and probably hurt himself and never ride again. The bike I Sold him, he'll go out and have a blast with his buddies this weekend, he'll buy accessories for the next year for it, and next year I'll sell him the 250. Not only that, I did the guy so right, that when his buddies are ready for a new bike, they'll come see me as well." He just walked out, owner was chuckling, "Why is it you keep him as GM?" "He's my son in law."
Click to expand...



The relevant part was you walked in asking about a specific yacht. A good sales person would key on that question and hold your hand all the way thru getting the check pried out of your pocket.

The dreamer in on a Saturday afternoon, while the guy is working a long time customer that is actually going to buy a boat, needs to be kicked to the curb.

It is a false economy to think every person who walks into a business needs to be treated like royalty and "the customer is always right".

Many customers are wrong, many will cost a business money, many need fired.

It is always fun when you write somebody an email that says " sorry we won't be able to meet your expectations, we wish you the best of luck on your project" and fire them........ Only to have them come crawling and groveling back, begging you to do business with them, as they make concessions to you.

Some customers need fired on Day 1, some need fired a bit later. Many a business has gone broke dealing with the wrong customers.
 
midlifeflyer said:
It was mid-day on a weekday. Multiple salesmen with no customers.

But that aside, don't you think a good sales strategy is about developing future business? Or is it just about making a sale today?

Those are rhetorical questions.

...and I see Henning already pointed that out.
Click to expand...



A better strategy is to take care of the really good customers, and keep them happy.

As an aside, if I was the car dealer, I would track down the Drivers Ed teacher and ask them not to send his students into my dealership and waste my salesman's time. That task had nothing to do with driver safety, and created an expense for the dealership to have 30 kids that were 15, and legally prohibited from buying cars, wandering around the showroom.

If the teacher wanted a "how to buy presentation" the dealer would likely send somebody to the classroom for 30 minutes. "Stealth" nonsense by the teacher should be addressed.
 
Jay Honeck said:
With this last 5-year hotel renovation project, I literally had to learn all the trades. If I had relied on contractors, I would still be on the tenth room, and would have spent 5x the money. In the end, I did 98% of the work myself, simply because it was faster and better to do so.

Here's a cautionary aviation tale: I have a friend who (foolishly, IMHO) gave a reputable avionics shop a $10,000 check a month ago for a panel redo in his new (to him) airplane. As of yesterday, they have cashed the check, ignored his phone calls and emails, and have yet to even schedule the work.
Click to expand...

There is one thing I always add to a contract, an over time penalty clause. I give them a fair time frame over run on their quote for things that inevitably come up; I've worked their job, I'm not unrealistic or unsympathetic, but time is money after all in our society, so it costs $XXX everyday for the over run.
 
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