New O-320, ignition options?

Kiddo's Driver

Kiddo's Driver

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Which magnetos should I put on the new engine, and what should I do to them before I put them in? What other options should I be considering? Keep in mind that it is a Socata Tampico, so if it requires an STC, the usual players might not have one for me to use. My gut is to put a Lycoming EIS replacing the 4373 impulse coupled magneto because that is where I have the least amount of depth of spares, and IRAN the 4370 that has 100 hours on it. Edit: Just read about a known issue with the Lycoming EIS and 24/28Vdc electrical systems. The Surefly EIS has a fix for the issue, but Lycoming does not as of 2021. https://mooneyspace.com/topic/39084-lycoming-eis-woes/

If you have seen my recent posts, you know that I have a 25-year-old, New/Old Stock (NOS) Lycoming O-320-D1A that I am going to install into my Socata Tampico TB9. For more information, please refer to the other threads, linked at the bottom of this post.

The O-320-D1A build sheet for a Tampico uses a Slick 4370 and a Slick 4373 magneto.

Here are the Slick Magnetos I have: three (3) 4370s, one (1) 4373, and one (1) 4371.

A 4370 overhauled & installed 11 years ago on my current engine. It was removed after 30 months after 100 hours of service.
(The other magneto's impulse coupling failed & the 4373 ate itself. I purchased a complete kit of new parts, including a 4370, 4373, impulse coupling, ignition harnesses, and spark plugs. I installed everything except the spark plugs. I still have the 4370 and the spark plugs in storage.)

As mentioned above, mags, impulse coupling, and ignition harness on the engine in the plane: 4370 & 4373, 9.5 years old, 150 hours since new.

Mags on the NOS engine:
4370 & 4371 (not 4373), 2 hours max time in service, 25 years old. NOS ignition harness & impulse coupling.

Kiddo's Driver

Thread 'How many quarts of mineral oil do I need to break in my O-320?'

Once I get the blessing from the FSDO, I will be installing an O-320-D1A in my Tampico. (The EASA TCDS shows D1A & D2A. The FAA TCDS only shows the D2A.)
It is a 25-year-old, NEW engine (NOS). Pickled and stored in a warehouse in the Wyoming desert for 25 years, but still new.
1) I have 12 quarts of Aeroshell 100 mineral oil. Will that be enough?​
2) Would you have any opinion on 80 vs 100? It will probably happen in December or later, and I'll be in middle Tennessee.​
I do NOT have a hangar, so I will have to come out early & preheat before I fly.
I'll be moving my...

Kiddo's Driver

For Sale Thread 'Photos added: FS: 2 NEW Hartzell blades F8468A-4R'

Two NEW Hartzell blades F8468A-4R.
New, Old Stock (NOS). Currently, they are assembled to an HC-C2YL-1BF hub, but it will be removed unless you would like to purchase the hub as well.

I have the original log book, propeller assembly checklist, factory propeller inspection form, owner's manual, and sales documentation.

The blades are used on these certified aircraft:
-Piper, PA-28-236 Dakota, two blades.
-Embraer, EMB-710D Carioca, two blades. This is a Dakota made under license by Embraer.
-Interstate Aircraft, S-1B2 Arctic Tern, two blades, and uses the same hub...
 
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Bell206 said:
Your only outright option is what is listed in the TCDS for -D1A. And any STC option would be under the D1A type certificate and not the Tampico TC.
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By which Magneto, I mean which of the three 4370's should I put in & what should I do to it before putting it in. The 25-year-old one needs an IRAN. Probably the same for the other two 4370s and the 4373. I'm not sure what to do with the 4371; either trade it in for an overhaul, sell it, or keep it for whatever.

Field approval, not STC. The EASA TCDS lists the O-320-D1A and O-320-D2A. Both have Lycoming build sheet for Tampicos that use the 4370 & 4373.

D1A

9746

www.lycoming.com www.lycoming.com

D2A

8562

www.lycoming.com www.lycoming.com
 
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Kiddo's Driver said:
Field approval, not STC. The EASA TCDS lists the O-320-D1A and O-320-D2A.
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Since you have stated you are getting a field approval for the engine variant alteration on the Tampico, you may as well include whatever magnetos you want to install as well. To find a FSDO ASI willing to do this is not that common so get whatever you can out of it. A quick look to the FAA TCDS for a -D1A shows S4LN-21, S4LN-20. The EASA TCDS really has no bearing here unless your ASI is using that as part of their approval documentation.


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Bell206 said:
Since you have stated you are getting a field approval for the engine variant alteration on the Tampico, you may as well include whatever magnetos you want to install as well. To find a FSDO ASI willing to do this is not that common so get whatever you can out of it. A quick look to the FAA TCDS for a -D1A shows S4LN-21, S4LN-20. The EASA TCDS really has no bearing here unless your ASI is using that as part of their approval documentation.


View attachment 146281
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DER will be using the EASA as the source document. It was issued first. Socata or the FAA dropped the ball when they did the FAA TCDS.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Socata or the FAA dropped the ball when they did the FAA TCDS.
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Socata did as they effectively wrote the FAA TCDS and notes sections per an FAA format. Its also the reason the TCDS notes section has separate guidance from the main body of the TCDS. So be sure your DER includes what you want as far as magnetos in his 8110-3 so not to cause you any heartburn down the road.
 
Bell206 said:
Socata did as they effectively wrote the FAA TCDS and notes sections per an FAA format. Its also the reason the TCDS notes section has separate guidance from the main body of the TCDS. So be sure your DER includes what you want as far as magnetos in his 8110-3 so not to cause you any heartburn down the road.
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And I probably should include everything I can think of. Bendix, Slick, PowerUp, Lycoming EIS, and SureFly should be easy to add. The others might be more complicated.

Any opinions on PowerUp magnetos? $500 less than a slick new. ($1788 vs $2336) And why the heck do you have to pay a core charge when you buy new???
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
And I probably should include everything I can think of. Bendix, Slick, PowerUp, Lycoming EIS, and SureFly should be easy to add. The others might be more complicated.
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I don't know how your DER is charging you, but I wouldn't get too carried away as everything on that list will require him to approve its use which is not always a simple math problem. And the more you add, the closer you get to a major change to type certificate which puts you outside the ASI/field approval level and up to the STC/certification office level. Plus the extra $$$ that follows that move.

Kiddo's Driver said:
Any opinions on PowerUp magnetos? $500 less than a slick new. ($1788 vs $2336) And why the heck do you have to pay a core charge when you buy new???
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No clue on PowerUp mags. And the reason for core charges is there is a finite number of repairable cores. Same with engines and other rotable components.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
But they are charging a core charge on NEW.
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If I understand your question, this makes sense. The core charge is for the core, and they refund it when you send them your old item (core) being replaced, if it is serviceable. If your old item isn't serviceable, or you don't send them one at all (it's a new purchase), then then they don't refund it.
 
MRC01 said:
If I understand your question, this makes sense. The core charge is for the core, and they refund it when you send them your old item (core) being replaced, if it is serviceable. If your old item isn't serviceable, or you don't send them one at all (it's a new purchase), then then they don't refund it.
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I feel like you don't understand the question. I put a brand new magneto in my cart. I'm not asking them to overhaul anything. I'm not taking one of their rebuildable cores out of their stock, having them rebuild it, and then sending it to me. I am buying a factory-new magneto, core & all. I'm not depleting their stock of rebuildable cores; I'm adding to the rebuildable cores out there in the world.
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Kiddo's Driver said:
I feel like you don't understand the question. I put a brand new magneto in my cart. I'm not asking them to overhaul anything. I'm not taking one of their rebuildable cores out of their stock, having them rebuild it, and then sending it to me. I am buying a factory-new magneto, core & all. I'm not depleting their stock of rebuildable cores; I'm adding to the rebuildable cores out there in the world.
...
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Think of it this way: the advertised price of a new magneto (in this case $2336) is already discounted by the value of an old core that you send to them. If you don't send them a core, then you pay the core fee.

Alternatively, they could price the magneto at $2,586 and refund the core fee ($250) to people who send them a core. But they don't do it this way. These two methods are equivalent, the only difference is how they advertise the pricing.
 
MRC01 said:
Think of it this way: the advertised price of a new magneto (in this case $2336) is already discounted by the value of an old core that you send to them. If you don't send them a core, then you pay the core fee.

Alternatively, they could price the magneto at $2,586 and refund the core fee ($250) to people who send them a core. But they don't do it this way. These two methods are equivalent, the only difference is how they advertise the pricing.
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I get it for buying overhauled magnetos. Not in my case, but in most cases, a person purchasing a new one would be doing so because their old one is no longer serviceable.
If I buy new, it's because I want to build up spares that are common between several aircraft.
Doesn't really matter. It's not like I have an option not to pay it and keep the magneto I already have.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
When I buy a car, I'm not required to turn in a viable core for rebuild.
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Sure, you're not required to. Yet if you do give them your old used car in exchange, then you get a discount on the new car.
 
Bell206 said:
So for every "new" mag sold, how many old cores don't make it into the system?
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Who knows? But the core fees encourage the old ones to stay in the system and get refurbished back into service.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
When I buy a car, I'm not required to turn in a viable core for rebuild.
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Perhaps not a car but when you buy a 12v car battery, your shopping cart will have a core charge just like your magneto shopping cart (albeit with smaller numbers).
 
MRC01 said:
Who knows? But the core fees encourage the old ones to stay in the system and get refurbished back into service.
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Which is why they charge cores on new purchases. Unfortunately, we've become a throw away society and its just a matter of time when mag cores go the way of hydraulic pump cores, certain cylinder cores, etc.
 
Back to the original topic: The engine is at G&N for an IRAN. The magnetos "cannot have the 500-hour inspection done on them economically". In other words, it is cheaper to use them as cores & buy new/overhauled. I'm having G&N buy & install new magnetos and a new impulse coupling for me. 4373 & 4370.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Back to the original topic: The engine is at G&N for an IRAN. The magnetos "cannot have the 500-hour inspection done on them economically". In other words, it is cheaper to use them as cores & buy new/overhauled.
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Did G&N explain the reason for that assessment? Last year I sent my Slick 4370 & 4371 mags to AeroACC for the 500 hour service, cost me a total of $1100 including a new IC and SB compliance, and it took 1 week from the day I shipped them to when I got them back.
 
MRC01 said:
Did G&N explain the reason for that assessment? Last year I sent my Slick 4370 & 4371 mags to AeroACC for the 500 hour service, cost me a total of $1100 including a new IC and SB compliance, and it took 1 week from the day I shipped them to when I got them back.
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One of them was new, but 25 years old. The other has 300 hours, but is 12 years old. Apparently, there have been design changes in there that mandate a bunch of extra internal part changes.
 
MRC01 said:
Did G&N explain the reason for that assessment? Last year I sent my Slick 4370 & 4371 mags to AeroACC for the 500 hour service, cost me a total of $1100 including a new IC and SB compliance, and it took 1 week from the day I shipped them to when I got them back.
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Thanks for the reference. Definitely a California shop!
I called and changed it so they are buying & installing new ones, but I am paying the core fee and getting my magnetos back.
I'll keep them. I always like having spares, even if it is just the core. Plus, hopefully, I will have another plane soon that uses the same magnetos, giving me more reason to keep common spares in stock.
 
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