NA/ ~Chevy Volt?~ /NA

Dr. O said:
I just don't agree that foreign iron is actually better
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As long as you never really want to turn, yeah I can see that. But if you really want something designed to be fun to drive around corners then you have to go foreign.

The Volt is an idea ahead of its time. That they are selling it is great marketing. It get GM to be able to recoup some of the NRE so that they do the research to get to a more practicable technology. They are learning a lot about what works and doesn't work.

Now if I was looking for a car to use as Jay is looking for I would also be looking at the Smart, the Fiat 500 and the BMW mini Cooper. Now if he wants a little more than that and is looking for performance and longer distance travel then the VW Golf GTI is the way to go.
 
TMetzinger said:
I'm pretty sure they did away with that HOV exemption, so if you by a "clean" car now you don't get the HOV plates. They finally figured out that the main purpose of the HOV lanes was to reduce the number of cars, not to make the world greener.
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Not for I66 - Virginia extended that. For I95, you're correct.

And yes, the federal L/E types driving their G-cars in HOV is a travesty.
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It's not just L/E. It includes any number of administration officials.
 
ScottM said:
One of my favorite review of an American made pick up truck

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LOL. Pretty funny.

Unfortunately, I actually have a regular reason to travel to the tops of mountains on barely maintained Forest Service access roads, so the good ol' truck chassis framed vehicle with the minor refinement of enclosing the bed inside the cabin (my Yukon) will be in my future for a very long time.

Preferably something with 4WD Low gearing for those lovely winter trips when a snowmobile or snowcat isn't required. ;)

Mountains make great RF towers. :)

Me and my oversized pickup frame SUV will be happily tooling along the highways and byways for many years to come.

I wonder what Top Gear would think of dad's ex-Air Force 1984 Econoline F350 heavy-duty van with the 40' TV truck mast. That comes in handy when there's no mountain around to utilize as a tower. It gets a whopping 8 MPG. :) :) :)
 
I wont buy a volt... I do too much long range driving. BUT... I just took delivery of my 2012 VW Jetta TDI Diesel. I'm getting 38 or so city, and 43 highway at 70 mph.. closer to 50 when I keep it down to 60 mph. 38 mpg highway when running 80 mph..

Seats 4-5 adults. Big trunk. Great audio..

the Turbo Direct Injection Diesel engines get great fuel economy... I'm working out to 10 cents a mile highway fuel cost.

Not the first TDI in my family or my circle of friends. The only big gotcha is replacing the timing belt around 60,000... if it lets go the engine goes kaput..
 
denverpilot said:
LOL. Pretty funny.

Unfortunately, I actually have a regular reason to travel to the tops of mountains on barely maintained Forest Service access roads, so the good ol' truck chassis framed vehicle with the minor refinement of enclosing the bed inside the cabin (my Yukon) will be in my future for a very long time.

Preferably something with 4WD Low gearing for those lovely winter trips when a snowmobile or snowcat isn't required. ;)

Mountains make great RF towers. :)

Me and my oversized pickup frame SUV will be happily tooling along the highways and byways for many years to come.

I wonder what Top Gear would think of dad's ex-Air Force 1984 Econoline F350 heavy-duty van with the 40' TV truck mast. That comes in handy when there's no mountain around to utilize as a tower. It gets a whopping 8 MPG. :) :) :)
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Sounds like both you and your dad are hams. You could do some serious VHF/UHF contesting with that rig your dad has. :D
 
ScottM said:
One of my favorite review of an American made pick up truck
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I wonder what year that's from?

Quite frankly, the fit and finish of my '07 F-150 4x4 is quite good. Perhaps not as tight as my Lexus, but it's damned near as quiet on the highway -- something my Toyota pick up truck certainly never achieved. We could barely talk in that thing, at highway speeds.

I also don't take the Lexus on the beach -- a task that the F-150 excels at -- nor can I haul a thousand pounds of drywall in anything else. I have been 100% happy with the Ford.
 
Doggtyred said:
I wont buy a volt... I do too much long range driving. BUT... I just took delivery of my 2012 VW Jetta TDI Diesel. I'm getting 38 or so city, and 43 highway at 70 mph.. closer to 50 when I keep it down to 60 mph. 38 mpg highway when running 80 mph..

Seats 4-5 adults. Big trunk. Great audio..

the Turbo Direct Injection Diesel engines get great fuel economy... I'm working out to 10 cents a mile highway fuel cost.

Not the first TDI in my family or my circle of friends. The only big gotcha is replacing the timing belt around 60,000... if it lets go the engine goes kaput..
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I've been looking, just a little bit seriously, at the TDI. Isn't there some kind of transmission service every 40k miles, too?

A buddy of mine used to have a Mercedes diesel, about 30 yrs ago. He said that thing would keep running long, long after he gets sick and tired of it. Don't know how long he had it, or how many miles were on it when he sold it.

In Jay's case, having been there, I think his idea of a scaled up golf cart is right on. That island is long and narrow. I don't think there is a speed limit > 35mph on the main part, and plenty of stoplights. Other than running into Corpus Christi on the highway, there really isn't much need for anything that 'handles', just something that you can use for a grocery getter or quick jaunts around town.
 
Matthew said:
I've been looking, just a little bit seriously, at the TDI. Isn't there some kind of transmission service every 40k miles, too?
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Yep at 40K if you have the DSG you have to have a service. It is a couple of hundred bucks. I was a bit wary of getting a DSG transmission but it really works great and you never feel any of the switches between gears. With the latest software it is even smoother than it was originally. I mostly operate it in the drive mode and not the sport mode. I get better fuel economy with that setting. I am very happy with my TDI. The engine performs great in all kinds of weather even very cold. The only things that I can about it that are negatives are when it is cold you to wait for the glow plugs to warm up the engine which can take sometimes 30 seconds to 1 minute. The other is that when going from zero to fast acceleration you have to wait for the turbo to kick in to get some good performance. Both of those negatives are the same for any turbo Diesel.
 
Ghery said:
Sounds like both you and your dad are hams. You could do some serious VHF/UHF contesting with that rig your dad has. :D
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We did. June VHF from a relatively rare grid. Special QSL card. All that fun stuff. ;)
 
I think you are just the kind of guy the Volt would work for.

FWIW I've had the chance to talk to Volt owners who LOVE the car. Even the ones who regularly exhaust the battery average 100MPG or better.

I did the math once, and suppose I could do it again but if you compair it to a Cruze you at minimum make up for the cost difference in fuel savings within the warrenty period for the battery.

Food for thought...
 
Skylane81E said:
I think you are just the kind of guy the Volt would work for.

FWIW I've had the chance to talk to Volt owners who LOVE the car. Even the ones who regularly exhaust the battery average 100MPG or better.

I did the math once, and suppose I could do it again but if you compair it to a Cruze you at minimum make up for the cost difference in fuel savings within the warrenty period for the battery.

Food for thought...
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Yeah, but...aren't you just deferring the fuel expense to the end, when you have to replace the batteries?
 
Jay Honeck said:
Yeah, but...aren't you just deferring the fuel expense to the end, when you have to replace the batteries?
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Assuming you aren't like the vast majoraty of americans and sell it before driving that many miles then maybe.

However if most of your driving is around the island then you are even more likely to come out ahead.
 
Skylane81E said:
Assuming you aren't like the vast majoraty of americans and sell it before driving that many miles then maybe.

However if most of your driving is around the island then you are even more likely to come out ahead.
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What will be the resale value of an old electric car or old hybrid?
 
Skylane81E said:
Donno, but FWIW My Aunt's gen 1 prius is still going strong on it's first battery
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Which brings up a good question: How long (years/miles) should the batteries last in a Volt/Leaf-type vehicle?
 
Found this song searching for some Dr. Demento favorites to add to my iPod... Seems apprapo to this thread.

 
Bob Noel said:
What will be the resale value of an old electric car or old hybrid?
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I help run (I said run, Bower, not ruin) Denton County Auto Recyclers with my Dad. We have a 2007 Camry Hybrid we're parting out. The primary battery pack we have listed for $850 plus core. Toyota will buy back the cores for enough money to make it worth handling.
 
Re: The Ford song...

Henry Ford's brilliant strategy to make cars was nothing compared to his foresight to start making the working man large loans... he pioneered not just the automobile but more importantly, the automobile loan, which for many people in that day and age was the first large loan anyone had ever made them. He knew people couldn't afford his horseless carriage.

He also started an enormous PR campaign making trekking on the largely unpaved/unimproved wagon ruts outside of most towns on a Sunday, an "adventure"... mostly filled with changing blown tires, back then...

All Cessna has to do is make airplane trekking cool again, and offer airplanes for the low-monthly-payment-of... Haha... yeah, sure... right.

But you get the idea. Ford knew just making the cars didn't open the roadblocks (hah... to use an automotive term? GRIN...) in the way of his potential customers purchasing them. He made the loans. He cajoled folks to build the roads. Etc. Etc. Etc.

One might joke he was one of the first "holistic" manufacturers, really.
 
denverpilot said:
Why don't Volt drivers want to pay their fair share in taxes?

They must be evil greedy Capitalists or something! ;)

:popcorn:
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Once hybrids actually put a dent in fuel tax revenue. Bet your ass they will fix that with gps mileage tracking.

Loopholes are only temporary.
 
n20junkie said:
Once hybrids actually put a dent in fuel tax revenue. Bet your ass they will fix that with gps mileage tracking.

Loopholes are only temporary.
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Wait for them to figure out the loss of tax revenues from people riding bikes too.
 
Personally, I think hybrids and electrics are missing the boat. 90% of the time (for me anyway) I'm driving by myself and not carrying anything significant. Why not just shell out a couple grand and buy a Honda scooter that gets close to 100 mpg, vs. pushing technology to the limit to move a couple thousand pounds of needless weight with an overpriced hybrid or electric vehicle? Keep the F-150 for when you need to haul something. You will come out way ahead both economically and environmentally.
 
Jay Honeck said:
  • Down here, golf carts are everywhere on the road. If you can make a golf cart work for 90% of your driving, you would think an electric car would be a natural.
  • Sadly, the mandated top speed of 25 mph (that the big auto makers demanded be imposed on those small electric vehicles) kills them as useful transportation.
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How do you reconcile these statements? It sounds like the GEM would work for 90% of your driving.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Personally, I think hybrids and electrics are missing the boat. 90% of the time (for me anyway) I'm driving by myself and not carrying anything significant. Why not just shell out a couple grand and buy a Honda scooter that gets close to 100 mpg, vs. pushing technology to the limit to move a couple thousand pounds of needless weight with an overpriced hybrid or electric vehicle? Keep the F-150 for when you need to haul something. You will come out way ahead both economically and environmentally.
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'Cuz we're Americans, with an inbred tendency to waste fuel.

The reason I don't take my motorcycle every day is generally weather related. It's off the road for the winter, but even during the summer, I can only rely on it a few days a week at most.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Personally, I think hybrids and electrics are missing the boat. 90% of the time (for me anyway) I'm driving by myself and not carrying anything significant. Why not just shell out a couple grand and buy a Honda scooter that gets close to 100 mpg, vs. pushing technology to the limit to move a couple thousand pounds of needless weight with an overpriced hybrid or electric vehicle? Keep the F-150 for when you need to haul something. You will come out way ahead both economically and environmentally.
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I have a motorcycle and a hybrid (Mercury Mariner).

The motorcycle costs more per year just in insurance than I save in gas.

Add to that the risks* I take riding the motorcycle and I most definitely do not come out ahead economically. Wrt coming out ahead environmentally, what is the carbon footprint of having two vehicles vs just one?

*risks, not because I'm a daredevil, but because of all the drivers out there that are idiots and hit bikes.
 
Steve Foley said:
How do you reconcile these statements? It sounds like the GEM would work for 90% of your driving.
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I haven't bought a golf cart because they are too slow.

That may change, as my Northern metabolism is slowly throttled down by living on the island -- but I'm still of the mind that I want to go at least the speed limit.
 
Steve Foley said:
'Cuz we're Americans, with an inbred tendency to waste fuel.

The reason I don't take my motorcycle every day is generally weather related. It's off the road for the winter, but even during the summer, I can only rely on it a few days a week at most.
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Down here on the island I ride my cycle year-round, but it's not useful for anything that requires carrying capacity. For things that don't require that I carry anything, I can usually walk.
 
denverpilot said:
All Cessna has to do is make airplane trekking cool again, and offer airplanes for the low-monthly-payment-of... Haha... yeah, sure... right.
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Wait long enough and it might happen. You can now buy a wide range of (cheaper) stuff directly from dealers in China; my son buys RC model engines and electric motors (amazingly powerful things) and other such stuff directly from China, at unbelievably low prices. This sort of thing cuts lawyers and the cost of the threat of litigation clean out of the picture; no American or Canadian manufacturers or dealers. Nobody to sue. Maybe some Chinese manufacturer will build a small airplane that arrives in a big box; you and your mechanic assemble it. The only cost risk would be the US certification process for the type.

Oh, wait: someone would sue the mechanic...forget it.

Dan
 
Jay Honeck said:
Down here on the island I ride my cycle year-round, but it's not useful for anything that requires carrying capacity. For things that don't require that I carry anything, I can usually walk.
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You just don't know how to load it up then!
:D:D
 

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Sac Arrow said:
Personally, I think hybrids and electrics are missing the boat. 90% of the time (for me anyway) I'm driving by myself and not carrying anything significant. Why not just shell out a couple grand and buy a Honda scooter that gets close to 100 mpg, vs. pushing technology to the limit to move a couple thousand pounds of needless weight with an overpriced hybrid or electric vehicle? Keep the F-150 for when you need to haul something. You will come out way ahead both economically and environmentally.
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I've run the math on that for my commute.

It takes a very long time to recoup the acquisition costs on the scooter when you factor in all costs including maintenance and insurance. Licensing costs also have to be accounted for if you go above a 49cc engine here. Also have to remove a couple of months (at least) of usefulness in colder climates like Denver, depending on your tolerance for cold.

Environmentally it's good. Economically it's meh. Not that great.

Then there's safety which can't be measured monetarily, except for amortizing in proper safety gear (helmet / whatever else you deem suitable to wear to save your body in an accident), if you're a new rider or coming back to it sans-gear. That gear also has to be added to the price that needs to be recovered to break even.

My math showed that I'd be better off saving up to buy a full-sized motorcycle and filing it under the fiscal category "wants a new toy" than purchasing a scooter for any primarily economic/ecological reasons.

Now if you like scooters and riding them anyway, you can't put a price on the enjoyment... just like aircraft.

Buying a used scooter helps the numbers too, just like airplanes, but I suspect the MX costs could run slightly higher.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Personally, I think hybrids and electrics are missing the boat. 90% of the time (for me anyway) I'm driving by myself and not carrying anything significant. Why not just shell out a couple grand and buy a Honda scooter that gets close to 100 mpg, vs. pushing technology to the limit to move a couple thousand pounds of needless weight with an overpriced hybrid or electric vehicle? Keep the F-150 for when you need to haul something. You will come out way ahead both economically and environmentally.
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My experience with motorcycles says that they are not in the posibility list.

Bob Noel said:
*risks, not because I'm a daredevil, but because of all the drivers out there that are idiots and hit bikes.
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Exactly. BTDT, got the scars and messed up ankle (from 38 years ago). My wife has made it clear (she was on the back when we got hit) that buying another motorcycle would be the end of our marriage. And I'm not interested in starting over.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I haven't bought a golf cart because they are too slow.

That may change, as my Northern metabolism is slowly throttled down by living on the island -- but I'm still of the mind that I want to go at least the speed limit.
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You'll get used to Island Time soon enough. Just call a contractor... :rofl:

In South Texas, the term is usually "mañana" as opposed to "island time" :)
 
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