NA... Boomers ... NA

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wilkersk said:
Fix primary education! Spend more on elementary school and high school than we do on reform school and prison!
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It's difficult to provide an education to the unwilling when they are being taught by the uncaring.

More money is not the answer.
 
overdrive148 said:
How did this come about? Blaming people is fine and all but how do you fix it?
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At it's most simplistic, and other cultural changes notwithstanding:

From the end of WWII to the Reagan Administration, above a certain income threshhold, if you didn't spend it on employees, salaries, benefits or other deductible items, you paid 70% or more in taxes. So the incentive was to distribute excess cash and avoid tax. The effective tax rate actually paid was approximately what it is now, after deductions.

Since Reagan, much of the deductibility went away and the rate was lowered, so what you don't spend on deductible items, you pay up to 38% in tax, and the incentive is to keep the excess.

And thus tanked the middle class.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
At it's most simplistic, and other cultural changes notwithstanding:

From the end of WWII to the Reagan Administration, above a certain income threshhold, if you didn't spend it on employees, salaries, benefits or other deductible items, you paid 70% or more in taxes. So the incentive was to distribute excess cash and avoid tax. The effective tax rate actually paid was approximately what it is now, after deductions.

Since Reagan, much of the deductibility went away and the rate was lowered, so what you don't spend on deductible items, you pay up to 38% in tax, and the incentive is to keep the excess.

And thus tanked the middle class.
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Bingo. :yes:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Northeast teachers are near or over 6 figures in lots of places. Plenty of standardized testing, plus common core crap. Gobs of money being spent, wonder what one would do with more
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I don't know what the answer is. I don't particularly feel that more money is the answer.

But what I do know is that I interview a lot of young people. It is important that people I hire know how to write a complete sentence, and know how to do basic math.

I always eagerly await an interview of a kid from the Northeast because they are much better at those items than kids form most other areas, especially the south. Perhaps those 6 figure salaries for teachers is having a positive impact.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
At it's most simplistic, and other cultural changes notwithstanding:



From the end of WWII to the Reagan Administration, above a certain income threshhold, if you didn't spend it on employees, salaries, benefits or other deductible items, you paid 70% or more in taxes. So the incentive was to distribute excess cash and avoid tax. The effective tax rate actually paid was approximately what it is now, after deductions.



Since Reagan, much of the deductibility went away and the rate was lowered, so what you don't spend on deductible items, you pay up to 38% in tax, and the incentive is to keep the excess.



And thus tanked the middle class.
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Higher tax rates were the secret to success for the middle class? Riiiiiight.

You didn't mention the 12% inflation rare in 1974, or the 14% inflation rate in 1980. Why not? Man, the middle class was really in fat city if they could get a mortgage rate below 10%.

Was your economic analysis from ThinkProgress, or MoveOn?
 
warthog1984 said:
Without sending this into SZ, I'd like to take a moment and make sure the Baby Boomers (aka my parents generation) know just messed up you've made society.

In the past month, I've seen threads extolling the use of drugs next to threads about how one joint makes someone unreliable to fly an aircraft.

And we need more surveillance of society- everywhere except your house and place of employment.

And than there's the threads about how the current generation needs to be more adventurous. Right next to threads about permanent records and how the slightest infraction bars a person from employment.

Thank you screwballs for making sure following in your footsteps is now a criminal matter and youthful indiscretions mean gainful employment at high levels will be forever denied.
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Quit yer whining. Take a look at history. Every generation has always inherited a hornet's nest of problems. Every generation always thinks they have the answers and every generation is only partly right. Your generation will without a doubt make a big mess that you can pass on to your kids too. Until the human animal either evolves into something else, or is modified into something else, this will continue and likely end in our ultimate destruction.
 
Dav8or said:
Quit yer whining. Take a look at history. Every generation has always inherited a hornet's nest of problems. Every generation always thinks they have the answers and every generation is only partly right. Your generation will without a doubt make a big mess that you can pass on to your kids too. Until the human animal either evolves into something else, or is modified into something else, this will continue and likely end in our ultimate destruction.
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Uhh.. No. The boomers inherited a gold mine and ****ed it away. Now they demand we pay for them to sit around and do nothing because they didn't save any of it for retirement.
 
bartmc said:
Uhh.. No. The boomers inherited a gold mine and ****ed it away. Now they demand we pay for them to sit around and do nothing because they didn't save any of it for retirement.
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:rolleyes2:
 
I will admit to one failure of the baby boomers: We were horrible parents. Look at the generation of pathetic, self-centered whiners that we raised.

Rich
 
nddons said:
...I suspect money is not the answer.
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I agree. Just throwing money at it was never the answer. As a matter of fact, I suspect its that attitude that is a big part of the problem.
 
I can't say I blame the boomer's for anything. NAFTA and China Free Trade did way more damage.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Northeast teachers are near or over 6 figures in lots of places. Plenty of standardized testing, plus common core crap. Gobs of money being spent, wonder what one would do with more
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If that's true they're vastly overpaid. We deal with the results of the kind of education they provide every day, students who can't do basic algebra or even basic arithmetic without a calculator.

WE should be paid closer to 6 figures... but we're nowhere near. :(
 
azure said:
If that's true they're vastly overpaid. We deal with the results of the kind of education they provide every day, students who can't do basic algebra or even basic arithmetic without a calculator.

WE should be paid closer to 6 figures... but we're nowhere near. :(
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Switch to teaching high school in MA or NY. Pick the right zip code you'll be laughing and flying more.
 
Stewartb said:
I guess those selfish old folks just didn't make life easy enough to satisfy some young folks. Yet some young folks thrive and I don't hear them complaining. Go figure.
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If count myself as one who's thriving and I detest most of the laws Boomers allowed to be passed to make me "safer" and the outrageous costs of maintaining the bureaucracies for each of those things and no way to sunset them when they grow too large to control.

If a Boomer did it when they were young, you can guarantee there's now a ban on it, or a "war" on it, or you taxed the crap out of it. Often all three. Let's not even talk about what Boomers did to journalism.
 
overdrive148 said:
I think the best thing for STEM and students in general are classes like Physics. Slog them through the basic math and fundamentals of Geometry and Algebra and Chemistry for a year or two (which happened), and then let them build potato guns or trebuchets and use the stuff they learned in a fun and safe environment (which didn't).
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Those latter things are now illegal under the Nanny State without proper permitting, taxes, and at least ten off-duty public safety personnel getting paid overtime to oversee the "fun".

Built that potato launcher, kid. You'll have a never-ending "weapons" charge on your file in a database somewhere for the rest of your life if the wrong person sees you using it.

Here. You must be bored and have ADHD. Have some Ritalin. Chew up. We'll make sure that's noted too, and bar you from any activities we choose later because we pumped you full of "safe and totally effective" pharmaceuticals before you could even vote. Well not ban, per se, but we will require a battery of psych tests that'll cost more than you make in a year.

There there now, you didn't really want to build things did you? You just wanted to pay us back those student loans for thirty years of your life so you'd know how to build things if it were legal.

A friend of mine got into a heated and massive legal battle with a Nannyist Majority-Boomer City Counsel of a small town over model rockets and teaching kids model rocketry. The only thing that saved his ass was old man Estes himself showing up to tell the Nannyist idiots from his own generation to STFU at a public meeting.
 
overdrive148 said:
My dad had an absolutely insahildhood when he was young, doing crazy and outrageous things because he could. I would be arrested if I did half of the things he did, and then get caught because of cameras and social media today. I don't think it's hard to wonder why kids today play a lot of video games, the fun stuff is frowned upon :rofl: Both kidding and not.

:
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This!

It's not money, entitlement, or anything else. It's the fact that if we did what our parents did and remember fondly as "youth", we'd get arrested, thrown in jail, or be unable to find meaningful employment 20 years later.

The Boomers replaced "he's just a kid" and acting your age with being a criminal or social pariah. And it wasn't the politicians who did that.

And now they wonder why society is failing.
 
Boomers: The Locust Generation
 
warthog1984 said:
Without sending this into SZ, I'd like to take a moment and make sure the Baby Boomers (aka my parents generation) know just messed up you've made society.

In the past month, I've seen threads extolling the use of drugs next to threads about how one joint makes someone unreliable to fly an aircraft.

And we need more surveillance of society- everywhere except your house and place of employment.

And than there's the threads about how the current generation needs to be more adventurous. Right next to threads about permanent records and how the slightest infraction bars a person from employment.

Thank you screwballs for making sure following in your footsteps is now a criminal matter and youthful indiscretions mean gainful employment at high levels will be forever denied.
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It's so awesome that you think you have someone to blame for all the bad things going on in the world. It must be refreshing to not have to take any responsibility.
 
I find it interesting that so many young who complain about how the boomers are bigoted have no problem with painting a entire generation with one broad stroke of the brush. There is the minor issue that the youngest boomer is now 51 so it's the next generation that is making many of the laws and rules that control our lives.
 
EdFred said:
At the expense of entire sectors of workers, however.
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Agreed, but which trumps which?

The shareholders of the corporations have benefited quite handsomely from less regulated international trade. Yet, as you say, entire sectors of labor have paid a price. How does a society redress the balance? Or should it?
 
denverpilot said:
Those latter things are now illegal under the Nanny State without proper permitting, taxes, and at least ten off-duty public safety personnel getting paid overtime to oversee the "fun".

Built that potato launcher, kid. You'll have a never-ending "weapons" charge on your file in a database somewhere for the rest of your life if the wrong person sees you using it.

Here. You must be bored and have ADHD. Have some Ritalin. Chew up. We'll make sure that's noted too, and bar you from any activities we choose later because we pumped you full of "safe and totally effective" pharmaceuticals before you could even vote. Well not ban, per se, but we will require a battery of psych tests that'll cost more than you make in a year.

There there now, you didn't really want to build things did you? You just wanted to pay us back those student loans for thirty years of your life so you'd know how to build things if it were legal.

A friend of mine got into a heated and massive legal battle with a Nannyist Majority-Boomer City Counsel of a small town over model rockets and teaching kids model rocketry. The only thing that saved his ass was old man Estes himself showing up to tell the Nannyist idiots from his own generation to STFU at a public meeting.
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The dark triumph of the "permanent record".
 
jtheune said:
I find it interesting that so many young who complain about how the boomers are bigoted have no problem with painting a entire generation with one broad stroke of the brush. There is the minor issue that the youngest boomer is now 51 so it's the next generation that is making many of the laws and rules that control our lives.
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The 111th Congress, which took office in 2009, was the oldest in U.S. history,
with an average age of 57 in the House and 63 in the Senate
 
bartmc said:
Since when is stating facts whining?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/yourmoney/ct-marksjarvis-0607-biz-20150605-column.html

It would suck to be you guys, depending on a nation of pathetic self-centered whiners to pay your bills.
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I suspect that for those in that situation, you're absolutely right. I'd certainly be worried if I had no personal resources and had to depend on your generation. I suspect that many of your age-peers would be happy to euthanize older generations, in most cases including their own parents.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I suspect that for those in that situation, you're absolutely right. I'd certainly be worried if I had no personal resources and had to depend on your generation. I suspect that many of your age-peers would be happy to euthanize older generations, in most cases including their own parents.

Rich
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I'd be happy to let them live with the consequences of their life's decisions.
 
bartmc said:
I'd be happy to let them live with the consequences of their life's decisions.
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Us old folks have to live watching snot-nose kids screw up dispite all the advantages handed to them.

(>-{
 
Bob Noel said:
Us old folks have to live watching snot-nose kids screw up dispite all the advantages handed to them.

(>-{
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Please name them.

Social Security ponzi scheme coming to an end. To which the majoriy of people who "benefited" from it are boomers. Kids today are paying in 3 times as much as the boomers.

Record debt that our grandkids will still be paying on. Boomers won't be around to see it paid off. It's not their debt to pay back.

Record number of people in jail due to an insane war on plants and for profit prisions.

Obamacare and the the boomers will "surprise" be the major benefactor of Obamacare, putting their healthcare squarely on the backs of the younger generation.

PATRIOT Act, massive amounts of regulations/legislations on businesses etc...

Boomers had the advantage that their parents built, but the free love, irresponsible baby boomer hippies have and are now ruining the country.
 
I feel this is the worst thread I have ever read on POA. It is worse than anything I have seen in the spin zone.

The only thing this is accomplishing is to further divide us when the biggest problem that I think we face today is excessive divisiveness.

POA is supposed to be a forum where we can seek and offer advice, primarily aviation related. But the more I read this thread the more I want to say "f..k You". If all you want to do is whine and complain, then have at it. But look in the mirror occasionally and accept that you are no better than those you are complaining about.

Now, GET THE HELL OFF MY DAMN LAWN!!!!!
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
Agreed, but which trumps which?

The shareholders of the corporations have benefited quite handsomely from less regulated international trade. Yet, as you say, entire sectors of labor have paid a price. How does a society redress the balance? Or should it?
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It's too late now. No one looks long term, it was all about the now, not realizing that their customer base eroded. And they caused the erosion. But they got theirs so who cares. I'm weird, I'm an altruistic capitalist.
 
overdrive148 said:
As a potentially explosive aside, I wonder what my job would become if the minimum wage was moved to even $11/hr. I think most would agree that even a ramp rat (which I'm a bit more than now, but still) has higher responsibilities and risks associated with the job than a fast food worker.
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Doesn't matter what your responsibilities are relative to anyone else. Wages are based on what the market will bear, which is the reason for a base minimum wage to begin with - to create a minimum level. That's not a judgment on whether minimum wages are good or bad, just the reason for their existence. Remember - every employer paying minimum wage would be paying less if they could.
 
JOhnH said:
I feel this is the worst thread I have ever read on POA. It is worse than anything I have seen in the spin zone.
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Nah. It's pretty much on the same level as whether pitch controls airspeed and power controls altitude or vice versa.

But funnier.
 
bartmc said:
Please name them.
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You are making me look like a sunshine and butterflies pollyanna.

First, do you understand that having advantages doesn't mean that there aren't problems to be addressed?

But, what does the next generation have that people growing up in the 50's didn't....

Medical advances. Think about cancer detection and treatments available now that didn't exist years ago. Consider microsurgery. Simple examples, think about the benefits of Kyphoplasty. Hospitals stays aren't shorter today just because mean beancounters are forcing patients out - time in the hospital can be shortened because treatments are much less invasive. I'm sure various medical professional can add simple things from their areas of expertise.

Technology. Weather satellites are much much better than the first generation of SVs. Weather forecasting is much improved. Technology for sharing information and accessing information. Today you can get entire libraries on a DVD or just access it via the interweb. Communication technology. Airbags, ABS, other safety capabilities available to people who want them.

Think about glass cockpits available to even us bugsmashers as well as the other comm/nav/surv capabilities. Think about the improved SAR technology we have.

Space Exploration (though I wonder if we as a species will really have the vision to move off of this planet)

Dispite the work that remains (and people working still working against it), race relations have in fact improved.

It's likely that taking things for granted is a characteristic of every generation.
 
bartmc said:
Please name them.

Social Security ponzi scheme coming to an end. To which the majoriy of people who "benefited" from it are boomers. Kids today are paying in 3 times as much as the boomers.
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I don't disagree except with those of your generation who believe that the solution is to abolish the program with no compensation to those from whose pay a percentage has been deducted, all their working lives, with a promise of future benefits. I agree that the program is unsustainable and should be scrapped. But it needs to be done in a fair way.

bartmc said:
Record debt that our grandkids will still be paying on. Boomers won't be around to see it paid off. It's not their debt to pay back.
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I mainly agree. But some of the debt is your generation's to pay back because the money was spent on things that primarily benefited your generation.

Just as one example, colleges. When I was growing up, it was not the norm for high school graduates to go to college. Most high school graduates got jobs or joined / got drafted into the military. College was for people who wanted to become doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc., not for the average person.

Your generation was the first for whom college was considered the norm and an assumption. And even though some (like you, personally) worked and paid your own ways through college, and others accumulate debt to do so, the campuses did not build themselves. Most were debt-financed, for your generation's benefit.

Of course, this is only one slice of the total debt, which is why I said I mainly agree with you. My generation racked up too much debt, as did the latter part of the one before me. Much of it was contracted based on overly optimistic projections that didn't pan out because of things that nobody foresaw. But some of the debt -- perhaps much of it -- was entered into in order to fund projects that both my parents' and my own own generation hoped would make future generations' lives a little better than our own. In retrospect, that turned out to have been a big mistake because those generations sure as **** don't appreciate it very much.

bartmc said:
Record number of people in jail due to an insane war on plants and for profit prisions.
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Agreed, except that the War on Plants actually started in 1914. It did, however, intensify during my generation. That's rather odd, by the way, because most people I know in my own age group believe and have always believed that weed should be legal.

bartmc said:
Obamacare and the the boomers will "surprise" be the major benefactor of Obamacare, putting their healthcare squarely on the backs of the younger generation.
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I don't think that's the case at all. I know very few people in my own age group who were uninsured prior to Obamacare. For most of us, it just resulted in increased premiums, deductibles, and co-pays, with no benefit in terms of the services that most of us actually use (as opposed to yoga and all the other New Age bull**** that's now required to be covered, but which most people in my age group think are quackery and will never use).

If anything, I think that your age group probably "benefited" the most from Obamacare because I believe that your age group contained the highest percentage of uninsured people. Most children whose parents lacked insurance were insured through CHIP or similar programs before Obamacare, and most people in my age group had group, private, or union coverage. Yours was the age group with high numbers of uninsured adults.

As for Medicare, that would have been an entitlement in any case, irrespective of O'Care. Medicare itself is a boomer-era program, however, so maybe that's what you're whining talking about. If so, you may want to bear in mind that starting in 1965 When LBJ signed Medicare into law, boomers paid for people already retired and who'd never paid into Medicare, so they could receive the benefits. I don't recall any member of my age group complaining about that, however.

bartmc said:
PATRIOT Act, massive amounts of regulations/legislations on businesses etc...
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Agreed, although I'm even more bothered by its effects upon individual liberties.

bartmc said:
Boomers had the advantage that their parents built, but the free love, irresponsible baby boomer hippies have and are now ruining the country.
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That's not the most comprehensible passage you've ever written, so I don't know exactly what to make of it. Most of the hippies I've known are still hippies, living as such, and certainly not serving in public office (nor wanting to). So I'm a bit puzzled by that one.

Rich
 
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What you are trying to say is stop trying to hold us responsible for our actions we aren't used to that, and get back to work cleaning up the mess we made while still making money for us to siphon off. Steel yourself. Going to hurt more falling from comfort.
JOhnH said:
I feel this is the worst thread I have ever read on POA. It is worse than anything I have seen in the spin zone.

The only thing this is accomplishing is to further divide us when the biggest problem that I think we face today is excessive divisiveness.

POA is supposed to be a forum where we can seek and offer advice, primarily aviation related. But the more I read this thread the more I want to say "f..k You". If all you want to do is whine and complain, then have at it. But look in the mirror occasionally and accept that you are no better than those you are complaining about.

Now, GET THE HELL OFF MY DAMN LAWN!!!!!
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When I was younger I never considered history that I couldn't change as a factor in my plans. I just got on with life. You whiners are cowards. Man up and make something of yourselves.
 
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