[NA] ¿ Anyone learn a second language as an adult?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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First Officer 6PC
Have you done it?

How long should it take and what is the best method for a marginally intelligent guy to pick up a second language?
Duo Lingo, Rosetta Stone, etc?

Living in Texas and finding myself in Mexico a lot lately it seems that it might not be a bad skill to pick up. Plus it is one of those bucket list items that has been sitting in the bucket for years. I would like to start working on it.

Would it be better to enroll in a legit online class at a university? Would it be possible to become conversationally comfortable in a year putting in 5-10 hours a week?

Also, ¡Bienvenidos! From Torreón.
IMG_0011.jpeg
 
Lingopie. It pairs with Netflix and other video sites to provide scripts in the foreign language. Click on a word and you can get a translation.
 
Learned Italian as an adult. I had some conversational Spanish when I had a sales job in college along with ~4 years of German which I hadn’t really used conversationally in a decade (even then rarely) and that was a decade after taking classes. We just spent three weeks in Germany and I was back to marginally conversationally fluent by the time I left.

If you’re not going to worry about reading, you can watch shows like Dora La Explorada and other ECH shows in Spanish to start gaining an understanding of the vocabulary although you should be aware the language uses a lot of diminutives (endings added to words) to express a variety of emotions. For example, Pablito is “little Pablo” (the child) and can also be used as a term of endearment.

I can’t really recommend any particular learning technology, but unless you really want to learn the vocabulary, precise conjugation, syntax, and reading I would avoid a college class or other formal learning solution.
 
I'm still tryins to learns english

las cucarachas entran pero no puedan salir

bendejo

mas cocaína señor? si. si por favor.
 
I had a basis in Portuguese from growing up, but I spoke on a 2nd grade level. As an adult I used a couple things to help me improve. One of them wasn't Duolingo. It's too "gamified." I used Memrise becasue it was the only app that supported European Portuguese versus Brasilian. I thought it did okay. I also used "italki". Italki is an app that will pair you with a native speaker teacher that you can do one on one lessons with. The instructors I had were all very good (you can choose from certified language instructors or just speakers) and relatively inexpensive ($15-$20/hour). I also ended up taking distance learning classes from a university in Portugal which was excellent. All this so say that for a niche language like European Portuguese there were plenty of good resources. I'm sure that for Spanish these will exist and many more.

Also, before I moved to Germany, I used Babbel pretty diligently and I was pleasantly surprised how much German I could pick up on and speak when I got there. It was still very basic, but, starting from zero German, I was happy with that app too.
 
I’ve tried numerous times and given up. Russian once then French a couple times. I’ll give it another go one day when I have the time, and maybe if I get a chance to live somewhere where the language is spoken as immersion is the absolute best way to learn quickly.
 
Yo estudio espanol con Duolingo. Estudio espanol en mi escuela para seis anos pero no hablo espanol mug bueno. Me gusta Duolingo y estudio para 10-15 minutos todos los dias. Tienes un boligrafo? Necesitas muchos boligrafos en espanol.

That poor use of Spanish is roughly the extent of my conversational ability in Spanish. I use Duolingo, and I think it’s a good setup at least for basic learning. Some of the phrases and words they seem to emphasize are rather funny and not always relevant or appropriate, but the idea is you repeat the words they’re teaching you a bunch and learn them. Before going to Italy we did Italian and they really emphasized ordering an espresso or cappuccino. Turns out you do that a lot in Italy, 1 euro espressos are available everywhere. In Spanish they keep on emphasizing pens and asking how many women are showering. Those doesn’t seem like things I’ll need to ask for much but I suppose I’ll find out on my trip to Colombia next month.

I learned Spanish in school (6 years of it) and I never really took. I’m not a natural at foreign languages but I think Duolingo is working better. The hard part is the lack of actual conversations. I feel like my Spanish is better than it’s ever been. I’ve also always found that in foreign countries they tend to appreciate when you attempt to speak their language, even if you suck at it.
 
I find that Latin-based languages are relatively easy to pick up if you can stay immersed (it can be a perishable skill). English is filled with random senseless exceptions. In comparison, the rules for French and Spanish are quite uniform.
 
Oh, and if you get Duolingo let me know. I can friend you and then send you nudges to remind you to do your Duolingo.
 
I always try to learn as much tourist-useful language as I can whenever I travel to a foreign country...I think I'm up to 8 now, but I'm far from fluent in any. I never had any luck with the immersive audio methods like Rosetta Stone, though a lot of people swear by it. For my purposes, I need to have audio, and the written word, with translation, in front of me. I just retain it much better if I hear it AND read it, plus it makes it easier to read things where the printed word doesn't line up with the spoken word, at least to American ears.

This all broke down when I tried to learn a little Greek. I know the alphabet quite well, but couldn't make the transition from Greek letters to Greek words, so I couldn't easily connect the spoken words to what I saw on the page.
 
I've been using Duolingo to learn German for 12 years. I used it for 4 before moving to Germany, used it while there but also had private tutoring, and then have used it the 5 years since being back to keep it fresh.

My German still sucks but I'm a perfectionist and I get hung up on grammar. Dative kills me. When I went back 15 months ago, my friends told me I spoke German better than when I lived there. Go figure.

I'm now learning Spanish because I wanted something a little easier to work on. But now I'm progressing into harder Spanish so.....I can't win.
 
I learned Spanish, German, and Russian. Spanish was college classes, German was self study, Russian was a 6 month full time military course.

Study is useless without regular opportunity to practice. If you have a good immersion environment and are willing to get out there and embarrass yourself, just about any study method will get you there if you keep at it.

The most important study task is vocabulary building. You can literally do that with index cards, but the mobile apps save a lot of prep work.
 
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Spanish is a weird one, I have come to realize. I studied it in high school (with a teacher from Spain), and then a couple of semesters in college. Retained enough to read Ted's post completely, save the ballpoint pens, which I had to get help from Google on (I was taught pluma). Our 'Man Friday' is Dominican, and he and I can usually have a conversation, but his Spanglish is much different from my Spanglish. And it turns out his Spanish is much different from the Spanish our Honduran friend speaks, so much so that their conversations devolve into Spanglish as well.
 
Ada, Algol, APL, Basic, C/C++, COBOL, FORTRAN, Icon, Java, Javascript, LISP, Modula, Pascal, Perl, PL/I, PL/SQL, python, Smalltalk, SNOBOL, SQL, TUTOR

Multiple assembly languges.
Multiple shells.

That's just what I was paid to develop in.

Thought about Haskell & Rust but no one's every paid me to use it.
Almost had to learn JOVIAL.
Currently learning Quantum Programming

The advantage of programming languages - aint no conjugating verbs and no one cares about your accent.
 
Duo Lingo is a great place to start. I used it to learn basic Portuguese for my trips to Brazil. I learned the very basics then promptly forgot it; my brother stuck with it and does daily lessons for 2y and it's paid off. Personally, I loved how the Duo Lingo owl would harass and threaten me if I fell behind..

More immersive learning is more effective (and pays dividends faster). About 10 years ago I had a year off work and did some traveling. In preparation I had daily 2-3h Arabic lessons from a Syrian tutor (who was a former career translator at the UN and spoke more languages than I can count). That was amazing. My intention was to learn just the basics before I went and traveled in some arabic speaking countries. I loved the written language more than verbal (speaking is more intimidating and conversational pace can be difficult). That's the reverse of when I was learning German as a kid: speaking was easier and more fun.

After getting back I used it very rarely (pretty much only for polite greetings and ordering at authentic middle eastern restaurants lol). I thought I'd lost it all until my Arabic tutor gave me a call a couple years ago on my birthday, and I was surprised how some of the stuff I thought I'd forgotten came streaming back. Not all, but enough where I was happy.

If I were to start (re)learning a language again, I might use Duo Lingo to get started but I would also quickly add a native speaker to the practice regimen. Even if it's once a week for an hour. There's no substitute for real conversation and practical vocab -- and it gives you a reason not to fall behind in Duo ;)
 
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I have used most of the apps listed and more. My brain just does not function the way most applications and classes are designed now.
I am a 100% visual learner. Every app I have tried, are very much focused on spoken/audio emphasis combined with immersion techniques.
This works for a lot of people, but not me. The best solution for me was a private class with a French teacher who designed a class to work with my style of learning. I also tried italki as mentioned above, and it was ok. The issue I found was finding a good teacher.

Which reminds me, I need to restart my French lessons....

Tim
 
Not to the point of fluency, but I think I inherited a small ability to pick up bits and pieces easily from my father, who spoke five. (In his case it was a matter of survival.)

We just returned from Costa Rica where I spoke just enough Spanish to get in trouble or ask for a menu in English. I even had a response to those who asked if I spoke Spanish. Un pequito. Puedo hablar solo tres palabras en Espanol.

Seriously, it can be done, Immersion is really the best method if conversation is the goal. From the courses I’ve looked at, I’ve been impressed with the Pimsleur methodology. Its focus is on hearing and speaking - an attempt to learn as adults the way we learn as babies. Kind of guided quasi-emersion. And being mainly audio, I was doing lessons on an exercise bike and while driving (it’s CarPlay compatible).

You can help yourself along. Use Waze when driving? Switch to the language you want to learn. And don’t be afraid of testing it out. I think fear of sounding stupid is a big impediment to learning. Fortunately, that’s my normal,
 
Another way (once you learn at least some basic words) is to find a book you really like, sonething you've read in English at least a few times, and read the Spanish version. It will force your brain to connect the two languages.
On the same note, watch a movie you like, but with Spanish dubs and English subtitles.
 
AV8R_87 said:
Another way (once you learn at least some basic words) is to find a book you really like, sonething you've read in English at least a few times, and read the Spanish version. It will force your brain to connect the two languages.
On the same note, watch a movie you like, but with Spanish dubs and English subtitles.
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Yep. I think ultimately it’s about repeated contextual exposure rather than memorization.
 
I tried, spanish, and I tried to use it. But apparently my pronunciation was less than perfect and they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) understand me.

For example they couldn’t understand when I said Cielo, I pronounced it as see-A-low. Was told is was see-YEA-low.

In the USA we are the most tolerant people when it comes to trying to speak our language. Other places are not, I’ve been told France, Spain, Puerto Rico are all particularly bad.
 
I used to travel internationally for work. Several times this included extended stays in countries where english was not spoken widely. I usually could pick up enough of the language to order food and drink, tell a taxi driver where to go and to greet my co-workers and clients. I never did any classes or learning devices to do that.

Only once was I able to actually comprehend a language without doing the translation in my head. I was leaving Paris in a taxi for the last trip of a 12x weekly transatlantic trip. The driver asked me what airline and I told him Delta, then realized just answered, never did the head translation thing.

Veiľké pivo, prosím worked great in Kosice Slovakia.

Long way of saying, just dive in and try things out in places like restaurants. Most people will appreciate your efforts.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
…Dative kills me..
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Dative kills everyone unless you’re learning the articles with the nouns and comprehend the verbs that require dative case.

Once I wrapped my head around the verbs that drove dative case, something clicked for me. Prepositions still drive me crazy though as that can change everything.
 
I learned Portuguese 5 years ago with a formal school that has approval from the Brazilian government to be certified.
I speak fluently English and Spanish but I believe that was not an advantage since rules are very different, seems similar to French or Italian
For me, practicing is the most important thing. Every time I go to Brazil, I force my meetings to be in Portuguese and force myself to use Portuguese only. It's rusty the first day but after that feels natural to survive and have business conversations

There's an Envoy pilot in Tiktok that commutes from Mexico. Probably, he can provide some insights as well
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Have you done it?

How long should it take and what is the best method for a marginally intelligent guy to pick up a second language?
Duo Lingo, Rosetta Stone, etc?

Living in Texas and finding myself in Mexico a lot lately it seems that it might not be a bad skill to pick up. Plus it is one of those bucket list items that has been sitting in the bucket for years. I would like to start working on it.

Would it be better to enroll in a legit online class at a university? Would it be possible to become conversationally comfortable in a year putting in 5-10 hours a week?

Also, ¡Bienvenidos! From Torreón.
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That's a pretty picture.

I learned German at university. You may need to try different apps. Transparent (free from out local library) used to work for me but they broke the app so it doesn't work well on my tablet. Other apps didn't work for me as well. I used the app everyday for 15 to 30 minutes. I'm (still) learning Chinese, with the best improvement being my trips there. As I hinted, check your local library and they may have free tools.

As mentioned above, total immersion is best. Be aware that there are many dialects of Spanish. Mexican Spanish is very different from Castilian, spoken around Madrid, Puerto Rico, and much of South America. I understand Castilian fairly well. Some years ago, the Spanish advertising in the New York Subway was Castilian. Most of the southwest USA seems to speak Mexican Spanish. The Telemundo TV channel seems to be Mexican Spanish and you can watch it to pick up words and phrases. I couldn't understand it, yet I had no issues a week later during a trip to Chile.

MooneyDriver78 said:
Other places are not, I’ve been told France, Spain, Puerto Rico are all particularly bad.
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I've had no problems with Spain and Puerto Rico. Note that Spain also, besides Castilian, has Galego (northwest Spain) and Catalan around the Barcelona area. Catalan is like a mix of Spanish and French. I can read Catalan but not speak it.

MooneyDriver78 said:
For example they couldn’t understand when I said Cielo, I pronounced it as see-A-low. Was told is was see-YEA-low
Click to expand...
See my comments above- you probably ran into a dialect. Spanish, like most languages, isn't homogeneous. As one example, the Bengali spoken in Bengladesh is very different from that spoken in West Bengal; The Mandarin spoken around Shanghai is different from that around Guangzhou and Shenzhen.
 
Zeldman said:
I speak 3 languages.

English, American and Texan...
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You reminded me about Alexei Leonov's comment during the Apollo-Soyuz flight - because of Tom Stafford's pronounced drawl when speaking Russian, Leonov joked that there were three languages spoken on the mission: Russian, English, and "Oklahomski".
 
AV8R_87 said:
You reminded me about Alexei Leonov's comment during the Apollo-Soyuz flight - because of Tom Stafford's pronounced drawl when speaking Russian, Leonov joked that there were three languages spoken on the mission: Russian, English, and "Oklahomski".
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I used to work with a gal who spoke Spanish with a definite Okie drawl.
 
Zeldman said:
I speak 3 languages.

English, American and Texan...
Click to expand...

Non sense, no can actually speak Texan.

In high school I made the mistake of switching back and forth between French and Spanish. Now what little I recall is all jumbled in my head and completely worthless. Although I will say, years ago my wife and I were thinking of a trip to Paris and decided to learn French with Rosetta Stone software, and I was surprised how much came back to me.
 
I learned Italian pretty well using:
Rocket Languages for the fundamentals/basics
The Great Couses website has a lot of video courses that worked for me
Slow News gives you the current news in a particular language, at a speed slower than a chipmunk hopped up on amphetamines (a rough approximation of native speakers, I'm sure including English).

Also tried some foreign language films, just for fun.

Took me 6 months of dedicated work to be reasonably fluent. As other have said, find someone to practice with who won't let you default to English. The struggle is helpful.
 
I was in a military unit where everyone had to learn a foreign language. A lot of guys struggled with that. A favorite saying was "I only need to speak 3 languages: English, 5.56, and 7.62."

The defense and Intel community found out there is a natural aptitude for learning languages, and not everyone has it. When we get screened for positions that require language training, we take a test called the Defense Language Aptitude Battery (DLAB). It is an hour of recorded gibberish to see if you can process sound patterns in real time.

Only the highest scoring people are assigned to Russian, Chinese, or Arabic. The sounds are just too different. Plus there is the alphabet thing.

The lowest scores have one option: Spanish.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Have you done it?
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No. But maybe someday.
SixPapaCharlie said:
How long should it take and what is the best method for a marginally intelligent guy to pick up a second language?
Duo Lingo, Rosetta Stone, etc?
Click to expand...
Too many variables to predict. Don't worry about how long it takes someone else. Give it a go and see how long it takes you.
SixPapaCharlie said:
Also, ¡Bienvenidos! From Torreón.
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"Saludos de Torreón"

Bienvenidos is "welcome". Saludos is "greetings"

And, since I bothered to point that out, I guess I'll also mention that ¿ and ¡ are reasonably uncommon in informal communication. I just skimmed a couple of my Spanish language WhatsApp chats to get a rough count and 90% of the time they are omitted by my Mexican friends.

Ted said:
I learned Spanish in school (6 years of it) and I never really took. I’m not a natural at foreign languages but I think Duolingo is working better. The hard part is the lack of actual conversations.
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This is the real key. Different people learn differently. Some will learn poorly from an app, but thrive in a classroom setting. Find the way that works for you.

Also, many people mentioned Duolingo, and that's fine. It's popular. It works well for some people. There is a whole new class of apps that leverage AI to do lessons that are more conversational. I haven't tried any yet, so can't recommend anything specifically. But many people struggle without an opportunity to actually speak, so this new class of app might be very useful to them.

For me, one of the things that helps is repetition in contexts that I'm interested in. Duolingo is ok for me, but not great because I just don't connect with the contrived examples. The Duolingo podcast, OTOH, is kind of like This American Life as a Spanish lesson. I enjoy listening to it while working around the farm just because the content is interesting. I also rewatch Narcos Mexico from time to time because I love the series and 80% of it is in Spanish.

asicer said:
I find that Latin-based languages are relatively easy to pick up if you can stay immersed (it can be a perishable skill). English is filled with random senseless exceptions. In comparison, the rules for French and Spanish are quite uniform.
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Amen on the English part. English is a bastard language due to extraordinarily widespread colonial influences. Tons of the exceptions come from loan words from other languages. Very little impresses me more than someone achieving English fluency after about age 20.
 
rwellner98 said:
For me, one of the things that helps is repetition in contexts that I'm interested in.
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That helps me as well. some of those are, as mentioned early in the thread, things such as "whare is the bathroom?" I'm interested in basic navigation as well.
rwellner98 said:
English is a bastard language due to extraordinarily widespread colonial influences.
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You are correct, but also that it is built upon earlier languages such as Old English (basically a Germanic language) and whatever French was spoken by the Normans. English as we can understand it was a result of Norman knights seducing Anglo-Saxon barmaids :) (I'm exaggerating a bit).
 
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