Keeping Track of 100hr inspections for renters?

[Rarefied]

Hello all,

I just found out tomorrow's cross country is cancelled because the plane is in need of it's 100hr inspection. This sort of thing has happened to me quite a few times with this school unfortunately, with some of those times only knowing a couple hours ahead of the scheduled flight.

Now it's hard to predict how much a plane will rent over a given time, but I believe you should at least be able to track how close the plane may be to it's inspection. I'd be completely at the mercy of the flight school to whether anything changes of course.

It wouldn't be hard at all to just create a new webpage and keep it updated at the end of the day of all the planes, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any flight schools that kept track of this for the renter, or knew of some software that would be more presentable to the owners to keep it quick and easy for the staff.

 

[flyingron]

Most of the flight schools/rental places around here have a black/white board with the due times for the various inspections on them pretty centrally located. Even barring that, you can always check when it is due in the logs. I would not fly with any school that doesn't allow me to inspect the logs for an aircraft I am going to be PIC of.

 

[SkyDog58]

If you are just renting the aircraft tomorrow (Sunday) and are not using their CFI, it doesn't need to have the 100 hour complied with for you to rent and fly it. I'd bet their mechanic isn't working on Sunday and will not do the inspection until Monday anyway. I'd talk to the owner/manager and see if you can still rent it. They should be willing to do so.

 

[frfly172]

It's not a hard job ,to make the total hours to inspection available to the customer. Having flights cancelled can be a frustrating experience.

 

[flyingron]

If you are just renting the aircraft tomorrow (Sunday) and are not using their CFI, it doesn't need to have the 100 hour complied with for you to rent and fly it.

Yep, provided it was still within annual (100hrs have similar scope to an annual, but unless an IA signs them off as such, they are not counted as an annual) and all the other inspections and maintenance limits are up to date.

 

[Rarefied]

If you are just renting the aircraft tomorrow (Sunday) and are not using their CFI, it doesn't need to have the 100 hour complied with for you to rent and fly it. I'd bet their mechanic isn't working on Sunday and will not do the inspection until Monday anyway. I'd talk to the owner/manager and see if you can still rent it. They should be willing to do so.

Are you sure about that? From what I understand it has to be complied with anytime it's being rented out.

 

[flyingron]

Are you sure about that? From what I understand it has to be complied with anytime it's being rented out.

He was correct. The 100 hour is only required when you are either carrying passengers for hire (i.e., the school is chartering the plane with a pilot) or when the instructor comes with the airplane. The latter is the reason most schools need 100 hours.

See 91.409 (b) for the reg.

 

[Rarefied]

He was correct. The 100 hour is only required when you are either carrying passengers for hire (i.e., the school is chartering the plane with a pilot) or when the instructor comes with the airplane. The latter is the reason most schools need 100 hours.

See 91.409 (b) for the reg.

Huh, I did not know that. Good to know for future reference...and yes tomorrow's flight was supposed to be a solo flight.

 

[denverpilot]

A significant number of aircraft have ADs that also just happen to fall on 50 or 100 hour schedules. Often they're the real limiter and the 100-hour isn't. Just depends on the aircraft.

A rental place that can't tell you immediately when a 100-hour or AD is due on an aircraft, isn't doing fleet management properly, though. I'll agree with that sentiment. That should be a phone call and should be updated at least daily, if not per-flight, somewhere either the renter or the front desk can get it on a moment's notice. Worst case, they should have it in a book in the aircraft and someone can walk outside and look.

It doesn't have to be high tech, but it does need to be available.

 

[Rarefied]

A significant number of aircraft have ADs that also just happen to fall on 50 or 100 hour schedules. Often they're the real limiter and the 100-hour isn't. Just depends on the aircraft.

A rental place that can't tell you immediately when a 100-hour or AD is due on an aircraft, isn't doing fleet management properly, though. I'll agree with that sentiment. That should be a phone call and should be updated at least daily, if not per-flight, somewhere either the renter or the front desk can get it on a moment's notice. Worst case, they should have it in a book in the aircraft and someone can walk outside and look.

It doesn't have to be high tech, but it does need to be available.

I'm talking with the co-owner of the school ATM about this. Currently the only way for me to know would be for me to drive 30mins and look at their papers. And since I may only fly once a week or once every two weeks, the time can vary greatly within the last time I've flown.

 

[SkyDog58]

Are you sure about that? From what I understand it has to be complied with anytime it's being rented out.

Yes. I am absolutely certain. Ron's statement is correct also.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

I'm talking with the co-owner of the school ATM about this. Currently the only way for me to know would be for me to drive 30mins and look at their papers. And since I may only fly once a week or once every two weeks, the time can vary greatly within the last time I've flown.

Can't you just call and ask how close to the 100hr the plane is? Schedule via phone after you've checked availability online. Their mission should be to make money and thus customer service. Should...

 

[Rarefied]

Can't you just call and ask how close to the 100hr the plane is? Schedule via phone after you've checked availability online. Their mission should be to make money and thus customer service. Should...

I suppose that depends. But if your scheduling two weeks in advance you'd have to figure out a day to call to find out the hours if they have the info on hand. Either way it'd be much better to keep it updated on their website. The owners seem open to it...so fingers crossed.

 

[Ravioli]

Not directly on point, but we put the Next Oil Change Due Date as 40hrs from the current oil change so we have some pad time to get it always done at 50hrs. Nothing requires us to do 50hrs except that we like our engine.

If you're renting from someone who can't schedule maintenance to maximize rental revenues, you may be renting from the wrong outfit.

 

[flyingron]

Indeed, Rob.

This is one of the reasons why leasebacks fail and I bet the owners of these planes (if they are leasebacks) aren't seeing the revenue they could if things were managing the maintenance properly. Getting the plane scheduled for timely maintenance be it oil changes or 100 hours or anything else to maximize availability is the key. When renters like the one in this thread find planes are frequently not available they start to look elsewhere.

 

[James331]

Always had a clipboard that went with the plane, short term due items on the bottom, a log of who flew, tach/Hobbs/fuel start and end, date, etc.

 

[Rarefied]

Always had a clipboard that went with the plane, short term due items on the bottom, a log of who flew, tach/Hobbs/fuel start and end, date, etc.

That's what this school does. It doesn't really help though when your only flying every two weeks.

 

[jordane93]

My flight school is pretty good about timing the 50 and 100 hours and we block the plane off of our scheduling system ahead of time.

 

[mtuomi]

Indeed, Rob.

This is one of the reasons why leasebacks fail and I bet the owners of these planes (if they are leasebacks) aren't seeing the revenue they could if things were managing the maintenance properly. Getting the plane scheduled for timely maintenance be it oil changes or 100 hours or anything else to maximize availability is the key. When renters like the one in this thread find planes are frequently not available they start to look elsewhere.

I bet the schools often make more money with maintenance than rentals with leasebacks, and they always take priority, even when it's not actually required.
If my plane didn't get rented out because it needed a 100hr inspection, I would explode.

 

[Rarefied]

I bet the schools often make more money with maintenance than rentals with leasebacks, and they always take priority, even when it's not actually required.
If my plane didn't get rented out because it needed a 100hr inspection, I would explode.

The unique thing about my situation is my instructor is also the owner of the plane I rent. He leases it to the flight school and the school uses it as a club plane(that I'm apart of) to make things a little cheaper.. The plane was apparently rented out for 10hrs today which is one reason the inspection was sudden, so I'm sure he's happy.

 

[denverpilot]

I'm talking with the co-owner of the school ATM about this. Currently the only way for me to know would be for me to drive 30mins and look at their papers. And since I may only fly once a week or once every two weeks, the time can vary greatly within the last time I've flown.

So is it a manned place, or unmanned? If there's someone there, it would seem silly if they won't walk out and look for you with a phone call.

Even with a ten hour day, they should have known that was coming. I assume it was on the schedule.

 

[exncsurfer]

Hello all,

I just found out tomorrow's cross country is cancelled because the plane is in need of it's 100hr inspection. This sort of thing has happened to me quite a few times with this school unfortunately, with some of those times only knowing a couple hours ahead of the scheduled flight.

Now it's hard to predict how much a plane will rent over a given time, but I believe you should at least be able to track how close the plane may be to it's inspection. I'd be completely at the mercy of the flight school to whether anything changes of course.

It wouldn't be hard at all to just create a new webpage and keep it updated at the end of the day of all the planes, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any flight schools that kept track of this for the renter, or knew of some software that would be more presentable to the owners to keep it quick and easy for the staff.

The place where I rent puts a sticker by the hobbs, if you had that number you could just ask someone at the desk for the last hobbs on the book(from that day). But yea, would be nice to have it posted online.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Can't you just call and ask how close to the 100hr the plane is? Schedule via phone after you've checked availability online. Their mission should be to make money and thus customer service. Should...

Should. And very straightforward. But we're talking about an aviation business in which "customer service" has traditionally been an oxymoron.

 

[Rarefied]

So is it a manned place, or unmanned? If there's someone there, it would seem silly if they won't walk out and look for you with a phone call.

Even with a ten hour day, they should have known that was coming. I assume it was on the schedule.

The place where I rent puts a sticker by the hobbs, if you had that number you could just ask someone at the desk for the last hobbs on the book(from that day). But yea, would be nice to have it posted online.

It's manned. I would think they would have known, but both this school and the one they bought out aren't exactly good at communicating with the customers.

This experience is just adding to the list of reasons for me to buy my own plane...hopefully in a couple years.

 

[denverpilot]

It's manned. I would think that would have known, but both this school and the one they bought out aren't exactly good at communicating with the customers.

This experience is just adding to the list of reasons for me to buy my own plane...hopefully in a few years.

I hear ya. One of the things I'm not looking forward to about having the instructor certs is dealing with rentals again. Even at a good place, it's just a huge pain.

 

[Tom-D]

Your Schools maintenance officer is dropping the ball.

 

[James331]

That's what this school does. It doesn't really help though when your only flying every two weeks.

Why not?

You have the times/dates due, you have the date and current tach infront of you, what else do you need?

 

[Shepherd]

It's in the log for the aircraft. Look it up, look up the hours flown each week and extrapolate.
It's not rocket science and it will save you some aggravation.
As a renter, it behooves you to periodically look at the maintenance records for the bird you are flying, for your own edification and safety. If you are a student you should do it to prepare for your check ride.

 

[Rarefied]

Why not?

You have the times/dates due, you have the date and current tach infront of you, what else do you need?

It's in the log for the aircraft. Look it up, look up the hours flown each week and extrapolate.
It's not rocket science and it will save you some aggravation.
As a renter, it behooves you to periodically look at the maintenance records for the bird you are flying, for your own edification and safety. If you are a student you should do it to prepare for your check ride.

I say it doesn't help because rental amounts seem to vary for this plane. For example, I could write down that 1 week the plane is 70 hours past it's last 100hr, and two weeks later the plane may have only flown 10 hours, or a different set of 2 weeks could have flown 30+ hours. So it'd be nice for either the school to block out the time they expect to have a inspection at least a few days in advance, or have the hours regularly put on their website(what I suggested).

 

[James331]

If the plane is 70hrs PAST 100hr, and if it needs a 100hr, I would find a different place to rent from, I'd also look into filling out some NASA forums.

Online live tracking would be great, the girls at the front desk could update after each flight and you could see how many hours the plane had before mx, only issue is not many of the smaller shops have systems like that, you can make google calendar work, but its not really perfect for that.

 

[Rarefied]

If the plane is 70hrs PAST 100hr, and if it needs a 100hr, I would find a different place to rent from,

No I mean as an example 70 hours since it's last 100 hr, so it'd still have 30 hours to go before it needs another.

Online live tracking would be great, the girls at the front desk could update after each flight and you could see how many hours the plane had before mx, only issue is not many of the smaller shops have systems like that, you can make google calendar work, but its not really perfect for that.

My point exactly. If their IT guy knows what he's doing he can easily set up their website so that the desk staff can easily update the hours at least at the end of the day. A better way would be for to automatically do it when they account for all the hours of the day on the computer, but that'd depend on the software their using to keep account of hours.

 

[Tom-D]

Why not?

You have the times/dates due, you have the date and current tach infront of you, what else do you need?

It's a school, you'd need the student flight schedule. to focast the date due.

 

[RyanB]

What scheduling program does this club use?

FlightSchedule Pro is what the school I learned from had. Showed the aircraft down for Mx in red and also showed the current Hobbs and Tach times for each aircraft. Worked great, but only if it was updated.

Sounds like there's quite a bit of disorganization at this club.

The Director of Mx should keep record of all due Mx upcoming for each aircraft, but sounds like there either isn't one, or he's lax about it.

 

[Rarefied]

What scheduling program does this club use?

FlightSchedule Pro is what the school I learned from had. Showed the aircraft down for Mx in red and also showed the current Hobbs and Tach times for each aircraft. Worked great, but only if it was updated.

Sounds like there's quite a bit of disorganization at this club.

AeroCalender-->Kal-Soft.com

 

[James331]

No I mean as an example 70 hours since it's last 100 hr, so it'd still have 30 hours to go before it needs another.

My point exactly. If their IT guy knows what he's doing he can easily set up their website so that the desk staff can easily update the hours at least at the end of the day. A better way would be for to automatically do it when they account for all the hours of the day on the computer, but that'd depend on the software their using to keep account of hours.

Not many schools have/can afford a IT guy

 

[Tom-D]

GOD forbid any 100 hour inspection got done early.

 

[ircphoenix]

I'm renting my plane out to a school. They do a good job of keeping track, but I'm in the hangar a couple times a week checking the books and keeping my own spreadsheet. When I see a 70 at the end of the tach I know it's getting close to 100 hr time. (My plane comes due at 79.9).

Also, @Tom-D those things are expensive! I'd like to do a 100 hr that resets the clock at an even number.... but that means I'd have to do one at 79.9, then another at 00. Or do it 20 hours early 4 times in a row. Those 80 revenue hours I'd miss out on are important! =D

 

[Tom-D]

I'm renting my plane out to a school. They do a good job of keeping track, but I'm in the hangar a couple times a week checking the books and keeping my own spreadsheet. When I see a 70 at the end of the tach I know it's getting close to 100 hr time. (My plane comes due at 79.9).

Also, @Tom-D those things are expensive! I'd like to do a 100 hr that resets the clock at an even number.... but that means I'd have to do one at 79.9, then another at 00. Or do it 20 hours early 4 times in a row. Those 80 revenue hours I'd miss out on are important! =D

When you know you are getting close and the next week is bad weather isn't it better to get it done when the rental will not be great? and be ready to go when it clears and every one wants to go fly?

 

[ircphoenix]

When you know you are getting close and the next week is bad weather isn't it better to get it done when the rental will not be great? and be ready to go when it clears and every one wants to go fly?

Better for the renters, sure. Better for my pocket book? Not really. Now if it's an hour or two, I'm not gonna try to squeeze in one last instructional flight. But if it's more than 5, no. Those hours are going to get flown before it costs me money.

 

[flyingron]

Every time your plane is NOT available when the renter wants to fly it, you are losing revenue hours. Doing an inspection early may make the amortized cost of the inspection more as it's only spread out over 95 hours and not 100, but it is certainly NOT reflecting lost revenue HOURS.

I've been on both sides of the leaseback situation (both as a lessor and as a club operator). You've got to manage your maintenance to keep the plane available to your customers if you want to be successful. This is the NUMBER ONE reason why leases fail.