Is a plane faster than a car over 126 miles?

MIFlyer said:
For sure! But I have to do a small version of that for the car. I do factor the drive TO the airport "against" flying.

For where I live the strongest case for part 91 is the the drivign time is not predictable and is not linear to distance whereas, except for dodging around some terrain and airspace, flying is.

For example, if I go the ~120 miles home to KKLS from KRNT, you'd think that's an easy two hours of freeway driving. It occassionally is, but sometimes runs 6 hours, and usually runs 4.5 hours due to traffic.

Flying is 30 to airplane, 10 for preflight and pull out, 60 minute flight (we get picked up at the airport there and it's only a few minutes to the families that we're going to see there) so 1:40. Fuel is had by calling the truck on the home field when we park the plane and they come around and fuel when they get to it. (we DO carefully sump and stick every time before flight).

Another trip is to Bend (KRDM). 7 hours best case by car, but often 9. About 2 hours in a mighty 172 plus the aforementioned 30 minutes on each side for ground transportation, so call it 3 hours, maybe 3.5 to be fair. Rental car can be waiting for me at the FBO and the nice young adults are happy to move bags from ramp next to aircraft to trunk of rental and seem happy with a $10 or so tip.

Friday Harbor (over water, other alternative is Ferry) KHFR is about 4 hours in cars/ferries each way, but 30 minutes in airplane and (so 1:15 from my house) and you walk the two blocks from the airport into the village for the weekend with your bags.
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Where I am traffic is rarely bad. So that 126 miles is going to be pretty much 2 hours. (I'm 3 minutes from the expressway) And it's also about 40-60 minutes from leaving the house to wheels up. Depends on how much is getting loaded into the plane, whether I need go-juice or not. Then which direction am I going? Does the 20 minute drive to the airport count for me or against me on that 126 miles?

The golf course in Manistee and Sweetwater Sound is a good benchmark for this test for me.

It's about 140 miles by car and a shade over 2 hours, and it's north. The plane is south. By the time I get the plane loaded up with golf clubs, I'm just over an hour from the golf course. With the winds today it's a 52 minute flight - airport to airport. Now I gotta tie down and unload the golf clubs and either sign out the crew car (haven't checked to see if they have one) or wait on Uber for 10-15 minutes and then it's a 12 minute drive from the airport to the course. With a car I win on time, even for 140sm miles car and 104nm airplane. However it is much cooler for whoever I went there with to say "Yeah man, we flew up north and went golfing," rather than "we drove up north and went golfing."

Headed to Sweetwater Sound in Ft Wayne to buy another guitar, it's shade over a half hour flight, I'm not packing up the plane, and I'm only maybe 20 minutes further down the road since I had to drive 20 minutes in that direction anyway. I get a crewcar from Sweet Aviation at SMD (I've done twice to buy guitars so far) and it's 7 minutes to Sweetwater from the airport. I'm already in the store with the plane and if I'm in the car I'm just barely past I-94 and still have quite a few miles to drive.

Now if I'm headed to a Brewers game in Milwaukee...
(I fly over the lake)
 
EdFred said:
Where I am traffic is rarely bad. So that 126 miles is going to be pretty much 2 hours. (I'm 3 minutes from the expressway) And it's also about 40-60 minutes from leaving the house to wheels up. Depends on how much is getting loaded into the plane, whether I need go-juice or not. Then which direction am I going? Does the 20 minute drive to the airport count for me or against me on that 126 miles?

The golf course in Manistee and Sweetwater Sound is a good benchmark for this test for me.

It's about 140 miles by car and a shade over 2 hours, and it's north. The plane is south. By the time I get the plane loaded up with golf clubs, I'm just over an hour from the golf course. With the winds today it's a 52 minute flight - airport to airport. Now I gotta tie down and unload the golf clubs and either sign out the crew car (haven't checked to see if they have one) or wait on Uber for 10-15 minutes and then it's a 12 minute drive from the airport to the course. With a car I win on time, even for 140sm miles car and 104nm airplane. However it is much cooler for whoever I went there with to say "Yeah man, we flew up north and went golfing," rather than "we drove up north and went golfing."

Headed to Sweetwater Sound in Ft Wayne to buy another guitar, it's shade over a half hour flight, I'm not packing up the plane, and I'm only maybe 20 minutes further down the road since I had to drive 20 minutes in that direction anyway. I get a crewcar from Sweet Aviation at SMD (I've done twice to buy guitars so far) and it's 7 minutes to Sweetwater from the airport. I'm already in the store with the plane and if I'm in the car I'm just barely past I-94 and still have quite a few miles to drive.

Now if I'm headed to a Brewers game in Milwaukee...
(I fly over the lake)
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Well, Ed, you have the good sense to live where life is a little easier in some ways than us demented weirdos living in the congested metroplex's of the world (that's not sarcastic, I'm truly envious!)
 
I still hate that Aviation101 guy because he was told to keep his speed up on an approach into a 9000 foot runway at MSN in front of me a few years ago, told the controller he would, and then immediately slowed down to 70kts. He could have been firewalled all the way down the ILS in his 172 and still had enough room to land without forcing me and everyone behind me to slow down.
 
Here in the center of the country you really need to go a lot farther, or to some out-of-the-way places, before flying is quicker than driving - because you're driving 75 mph or more, and often in a pretty straight line to where you're going.

But I remember when I lived in VA and MD, it often made a whole lot of sense to fly, because of traffic, winding roads that didn't take you straight there, and things like lakes, mountains, and bays in the way. One trip we did would have been 8 hours driving, but was just 2.5 hours by plane - in a Warrior no less. Easily made it an easy weekend trip instead of one we wouldn't even have considered doing in a weekend.
 
Commuting between KAPC and KSAC, it's a 58 mile drive via the 80, and a 75 mile drive using back mountain roads that can sometimes be faster than using the 80 on a Friday afternoon when the freeway can turn in to a parking lot. It's a 47 (statue) mile distance airport to airport. Home to office and back, car usually wins Monday through Thursday. Fridays, plane wins.
 
Denver (CFO) to Leadville - 4.5 hrs driving in nice weather and no bicycle rallies. 1.2 hrs in the cherokee. Frequent trip for our lunch bunch (as is Salida, just down the road, same time)
 
EdFred said:
But you left it out of the equation. And every pre-flight is exactly the same? That must be awesome that you've never gone to the hangar and found something unexpected.
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I never gave an equation, merely the means for obtaining certain variables. And it would seem that you missed the part about knowing how to adjust for issues that pop up.
 
Take one of these common routes, San Diego area to Santa Barbara area.. about 150-200 miles depending on (if driving) roads taken or (if flying) straight line, IFR routing, etc. Most would say for less than 200 miles driving is going to win, but around here that's generally not going to be true:

VIA PLANE
upload_2022-9-26_12-25-13.png

VIA CAR
upload_2022-9-26_12-26-18.png

Even if you cushion the air time by a full extra HOUR to account for driving to the airport (12-17 minutes in my case), preflight and fuel (15-20 minutes) and then Santa Barbara Uber / Turo / crew car (10-15 minutes) you're still looking at nearly half the time. And it's loads more fun

My general rule is, if Google Maps is telling me it's going to be longer than 2-3 hrs the plane is going to win every time.
 
RussR said:
Here in the center of the country you really need to go a lot farther, or to some out-of-the-way places, before flying is quicker than driving - because you're driving 75 mph or more, and often in a pretty straight line to where you're going.

But I remember when I lived in VA and MD, it often made a whole lot of sense to fly, because of traffic, winding roads that didn't take you straight there, and things like lakes, mountains, and bays in the way. One trip we did would have been 8 hours driving, but was just 2.5 hours by plane - in a Warrior no less. Easily made it an easy weekend trip instead of one we wouldn't even have considered doing in a weekend.
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I also live in the center of the country (but the country to the north) and I agree with that statement IF there is a direct major freeway connecting the two cities. But, sometimes, it's not the case. For example. I went from Regina, SK to Great Falls, MT. Driving it would have been 7.5 hours each way according to Google Maps. But, I'd have to stop at least once for fuel but more likely twice so add another 30 minutes and we're at 8 hours. I flew down there instead. The way to Great Falls was just over 4 hours and the way back was just over 3 hours. I flew there and back in less time than it would have taken to drive one way. And this was in a Piper Cherokee so anything but fast. This pretty much applies to any place I go to that isn't directly connected to Highway 1. Regina to Calgary, Edmonton, Red Deer, and pretty much any place in the U.S. is almost always faster to fly door to door as well.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I also live in the center of the country (but the country to the north) and I agree with that statement IF there is a direct major freeway connecting the two cities. But, sometimes, it's not the case. For example. I went from Regina, SK to Great Falls, MT. Driving it would have been 7.5 hours each way according to Google Maps. But, I'd have to stop at least once for fuel but more likely twice so add another 30 minutes and we're at 8 hours. I flew down there instead. The way to Great Falls was just over 4 hours and the way back was just over 3 hours. I flew there and back in less time than it would have taken to drive one way. And this was in a Piper Cherokee so anything but fast. This pretty much applies to any place I go to that isn't directly connected to Highway 1. Regina to Calgary, Edmonton, Red Deer, and pretty much any place in the U.S. is almost always faster to fly door to door as well.
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Yes, but an 8 hour drive or a 3-4 hour plane flight is definitely in the "a lot farther" category that I mentioned. The original post was about 126 miles, not a few hundred. Regina to Great Falls is 461 miles - just about any plane will beat a car over that distance in just about any part of the world.

And you can always find exceptions, I could find some in Oklahoma too. Remember my other caveat was "or out-of-the-way places". Which I'm sure you have quite a few of up there!
 
eman1200 said:
it really helps the channel out a lot!
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Here's a very loud and intrusive animation showing you, a viewer in the year 2022, how to click the Like and Subscribe buttons, because my audience is so incredibly stupid that they need help with that. Or at least I, the content creator, am not smart enough to normalize the audio so that the ringing bell of me subscribing to my own channel is within 100 dB of the also-annoying and inexplicable EDM sound track, which itself drowns out any hope of you understanding my tentative mumbling.

No, I don't have any pet peeves about YouTube content at all.

More importantly, the discussion side of this thread is enough to engage my attention without even bothering to watch the video. The nearest shopping mall, good Thai restaurant, and several other things are 120 road miles from my house. That takes right around 2 hours to drive when the roads are dry, longer if they're icy. It's an 85 nm flight, which takes about 35 minutes wheels up to wheels down. Counting the preflight, taxi, and courtesy car shenanigans, I can plan on about 1 hour each way, door to door. I cheat a little by living close to the airport. But for this short flight, it's worth it.

There are a couple of places that I drive instead of flying, though. They are 35 and 60 nm away by plane versus 50 and 90 miles away by car, respectively. But one doesn't have a courtesy car and both of the airports are well outside of town, 15 and 7 very rural road miles. So it ends up being unworkable to fly to the closer one and roughly a wash in travel time for the farther one.

Of course, when I used to go to a monthly meeting at a town about 65 road miles / 1 hour drive away, I would sometimes fly the Cub the 30 nm / half-hour to get there and then drive the courtesy car the last 12 miles to the meeting, just because using a J-3 to go to work makes life worth living.
 
asicer said:
And it would seem that you missed the part about knowing how to adjust for issues that pop up.
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You are correct, I missed where you addressed that in your original post. My bad.

*rereads post*

Oh wait.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I also live in the center of the country (but the country to the north) and I agree with that statement IF there is a direct major freeway connecting the two cities. But, sometimes, it's not the case. For example. I went from Regina, SK to Great Falls, MT. Driving it would have been 7.5 hours each way according to Google Maps. But, I'd have to stop at least once for fuel but more likely twice so add another 30 minutes and we're at 8 hours. I flew down there instead. The way to Great Falls was just over 4 hours and the way back was just over 3 hours. I flew there and back in less time than it would have taken to drive one way. And this was in a Piper Cherokee so anything but fast. This pretty much applies to any place I go to that isn't directly connected to Highway 1. Regina to Calgary, Edmonton, Red Deer, and pretty much any place in the U.S. is almost always faster to fly door to door as well.
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7.5 hours to go 126 miles is crazy!!
 
Simplest answer is fly when it suits you, drive when it doesn’t. All the other angst is just pearl clutching.
 
iamtheari said:
More importantly, the discussion side of this thread is enough to engage my attention without even bothering to watch the video.
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Maybe you should watch the video, since there is no EDM track, no annoying dings, or animated subscribe buttons. Ever hear, “judge a book by its cover?” I’ll confess, I did put a picture to subscribe, perhaps I’ll stop doing that if that annoys folks. I totally agree with you, there’s some really annoying YT creators out there, I’m trying not to repeat their failures.
 
TuomoMooneyFlying said:
Maybe you should watch the video, since there is no EDM track, no annoying dings, or animated subscribe buttons. Ever hear, “judge a book by its cover?” I’ll confess, I did put a picture to subscribe, perhaps I’ll stop doing that if that annoys folks. I totally agree with you, there’s some really annoying YT creators out there, I’m trying not to repeat their failures.
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My rant wasn't about your video. It was in response to an ongoing subthread here about those types of nuisances in YouTube content. As this is a forum whose stated purpose is to "discuss" aviation topics, I primarily engaged in the aviation discussion part of the thread, as most here are doing.

Incidentally, why do books have covers?
 
asicer said:
You guys make it sound so complicated.
  • Browser tab #1: Google Maps (drive door-to-door scenario)
  • Browser tab #2: Skyvector
  • Browser tab #3: Google Maps (airport-to-last-mile)
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the 4th tab about the drive to the airport and preflight has already been covered
then there's another tab that applies to some folks...the flight school or FBO's rental schedule.... now it really IS starting to get complicated.....
 
Brad W said:
the 4th tab about the drive to the airport and preflight has already been covered
then there's another tab that applies to some folks...the flight school or FBO's rental schedule.... now it really IS starting to get complicated.....
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and the 5th, 6th, and 7th tabs regarding weather. lol
 
The minimum fly vs drive always makes me laugh. Our airport is 25miles southwest of the house. Trips heading southwest are give-me's because I would drive right by the airport anyways.

Heading North East is most painful because it always adda an extra 50 miles of drive time (for a round trip).

So its a lopsided problem for me anyways LOL!
 
TuomoMooneyFlying said:
Maybe you should watch the video, since there is no EDM track, no annoying dings, or animated subscribe buttons. Ever hear, “judge a book by its cover?” I’ll confess, I did put a picture to subscribe, perhaps I’ll stop doing that if that annoys folks. I totally agree with you, there’s some really annoying YT creators out there, I’m trying not to repeat their failures.
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Not sure what all the fuss is about. I thought your video was pretty good other than stretching a little too long. BTW love the green color on your Mooney. FYI I subscribed to your channel. Cheers :cheerswine:
 
Easy answers.

1) For those with excessive drives to the airport, MOVE closer. If you depart 19 at my airport and extend a bit, you fly over my house.

2) The other factor is, it is more fun to fly than to drive. And this from a car guy (I have never owned a car that remained stock).

3) There is more to life than a few minutes.
 
My bride and I used to go back and forth from Wilmington DE to the beach , our motor home (sold) and then to our home in OCMD.

Drive time - 2hours 15 minutes 118 miles. Longer during beach season, race weekend or any other Dover event.
Fly time - 15 minutes home to airport, 45 minute flight to ILG, 20 minutes to our former home and family members.

Plane Saves an hour each way and I don’t have to drive on the crazy SR1 crash fest highway.

Enjoyed the video.
 
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Pinecone said:
Easy answers.

1) For those with excessive drives to the airport, MOVE closer. If you depart 19 at my airport and extend a bit, you fly over my house.
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3 minute drive to work which I go to WAY more than I do the airport. So your solution is to put on way more miles on a vehicle every day.

Do you actually think about what you post before doing so?
(Rhetorical question, because, well, you.)
 
Sinistar said:
The minimum fly vs drive always makes me laugh. Our airport is 25miles southwest of the house. Trips heading southwest are give-me's because I would drive right by the airport anyways.

Heading North East is most painful because it always adda an extra 50 miles of drive time (for a round trip).

So its a lopsided problem for me anyways LOL!
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I really do miss living about 6 miles away from the airport. Where I live now I have three fairly active GA airports roughly equidistant from my house, but they are all around 25-30 miles in different directions so I'd be in kind of the same boat as you. There is one nice airport much closer in Green Cove Springs but it's private (and spook government I believe) so no hope there.

On that note, part of me wants to be jealous of those of you living on airparks...but one small airpark I drove through recently sort of depressed me on the idea. Beautiful grass runway. Only saw one plane in a hangar, nobody out flying, nobody even out hangar flying that I could see. Most hangars were closed up tight. It was a nice weekend afternoon too. Reminded me of riding the boat along waterways and lakes and seeing all the beautiful waterfront homes and never anyone out on the decks or docks enjoying it.
 
Archer Jack said:
Not sure what all the fuss is about. I thought your video was pretty good other than stretching a little too long. BTW love the green color on your Mooney. FYI I subscribed to your channel. Cheers :cheerswine:
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Thanks! Awesome discussion, love the PoA folks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I don't mind the videos.
What rubs me the wrong was is when people pop in drop a video amd disappear until the next. A forum is supposed to be a place for discussion
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I'd totally move closer to the airport. I haven't driven to "work" since 2016 as work is wherever my computer and internet is.
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Some of us provide actual physical product to the world, you know, so you can have computers and internet, and we can't work out of an RV.
 
EdFred said:
Some of us provide actual physical product to the world, you know, so you can have computers and internet, and we can't work out of an RV.
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Really? All my stuff says "made in China" but "designed in California" - probably by some kid in an RV lol. Just giving you hard time @EdFred ;-)
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Really? All my stuff says "made in China" but "designed in California" - probably by some kid in an RV lol. Just giving you hard time @EdFred ;-)
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But what about the stuff IN the RV? :)
(I'm actually in just about every production segment there is. Some of my stuff is bound to be in most everyone's house, or is 1 degree away)
 
EdFred said:
But what about the stuff IN the RV? :)
(I'm actually in just about every production segment there is. Some of my stuff is bound to be in most everyone's house, or is 1 degree away)
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I really don't want your "stuff" in my house...
 
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