Instrument Training Questions

[etemplet]

I am preparing to start my Instrument Rating Training and I need some help.

How much time would be appropriate for an instructor to spend on ground school prior to an IFR training Flight ?

What would be a standard time frame for the duration of a routine Instrument Training flight ?

I told the Manager that I wanted an older pilot with a lot of knowledge and experience as an instrument instructor. I also wanted someone patient and easy to work with, enjoyable to be around. Is that too much to ask ???

I am hoping instructors an pilots chime in to help me out. I have no opinions yet, but I am looking for some guidance.

 

[saracelica]

I'll give you the same advice my CFII told me that I didn't listen to.

Get a IFR book (Gleim or ASA or Rod Machados or whoever you prefer) and read it this winter. Get an idea of what you'll be learning (it's alot cheaper then paying your CFII) you'll get an idea of some stuff and be overwhelmed by some. Relax and enjoy the Christmas/Thanksgiving holiday. January read the book again you'll pick up some more stuff and then come March start the flying portion. I didn't listen to the advice and so now I'm *grounded* and can't continue with IR since I haven't passed the written. The flying part is good and just need the written to be done.

Don't let lessons be more then about 1.3 or 1.4. Don't do more then 5 approaches a day IMHO. Enjoy the training!

 

[dtuuri]

I'll give you the same advice my CFII told me that I didn't listen to.

Get a IFR book (Gleim or ASA or Rod Machados or whoever you prefer) and read it this winter. Get an idea of what you'll be learning (it's alot cheaper then paying your CFII) you'll get an idea of some stuff and be overwhelmed by some. Relax and enjoy the Christmas/Thanksgiving holiday. January read the book again you'll pick up some more stuff and then come March start the flying portion. I didn't listen to the advice and so now I'm *grounded* and can't continue with IR since I haven't passed the written. The flying part is good and just need the written to be done.

Don't let lessons be more then about 1.3 or 1.4. Don't do more then 5 approaches a day IMHO. Enjoy the training!

That's pretty darn good advice. Getting your mind right before starting is why I made these free Flash tutorials (and will continue making them as soon as I can). Start there--today. :wink2:

dtuuri

 

[poadeleted20]

How much time would be appropriate for an instructor to spend on ground school prior to an IFR training Flight ?

Depends on the stage of training. Early on, I'm usually running about a 1:1 ground:flight ratio, but that comes down as we progress to cross-country operations, when it usually takes 30-60 minutes to go through the flight plan, weather, and NOTAMs for a 2-2.5 hour flight. Beware of any instructor who isn't giving adequate preflight training/briefing, as you'll pay dearly for that with extra flight time.

What would be a standard time frame for the duration of a routine Instrument Training flight ?

When I'm doing 10-day intensive courses, we usually run about 2.5-3 hour flights, but for more typical 2-3 times/week training, 1.5-2 hours is more typical.

I told the Manager that I wanted an older pilot with a lot of knowledge and experience as an instrument instructor. I also wanted someone patient and easy to work with, enjoyable to be around. Is that too much to ask ???

Not if you train with Professional Instrument Courses, but at your local FBO? Seems to be more a matter of luck there.

 

[Hank S]

I'll give you the same advice my CFII told me that I didn't listen to.

Get a IFR book (Gleim or ASA or Rod Machados or whoever you prefer) and read it this winter. Get an idea of what you'll be learning (it's alot cheaper then paying your CFII) you'll get an idea of some stuff and be overwhelmed by some. Relax and enjoy the Christmas/Thanksgiving holiday. January read the book again you'll pick up some more stuff and then come March start the flying portion. I didn't listen to the advice and so now I'm *grounded* and can't continue with IR since I haven't passed the written. The flying part is good and just need the written to be done.

Don't let lessons be more then about 1.3 or 1.4. Don't do more then 5 approaches a day IMHO. Enjoy the training!

Since when are pilots "grounded" until passing the written? I did my Instrument XC in December, took the written in February and checkride in April.

Early lessons were an hour plus. As you progress, they will get longer. Make sure before you leave today that you know what the next lesson will cover, and show up prepared with the material reread.

 

[Alexb2000]

I would talk to your instructor prior to starting and both of you can decide if the fit is good. I believe a lot of instructors are focused on just getting the student through because the student is usually very price conscious. This leads to a pilot that has the basics, but lacks practical IFR skills. It makes for some very stressful times when you are out on your own in bad weather with a scared passenger in the right seat instead of a CFII.

Here are some things I find lacking:

1. Not enough actual time. I would say forget the prescribed hours, get ALL the actual time you can. Foggles are a poor substitute.

2. Bad weather time. Flying around in VFR or light IFR isn't preparing you. The real test will come with hard weather. Better get all you can and tap your instructors weather knowledge as much as possible in the real thing. This has to go beyond the fairy tale go/no-go decisions and prepare you for the what do I do now that I am really in it decisions.

3. ATC comms. Knowing what ATC is doing and how to get what you want out of the system is like learning a new language, it takes time. Flying around VFR not using the system isn't going to prepare you for the first really bad weather day when the radio is machine gun busy. I would try and use ATC as much as possible even when shooting practice approaches, just so I could get use to the language, pace, and directions they give.

4. Even if it cost more, I would try and fly somewhere distant with my instructor on bad weather days. Going to an unfamiliar place, in bad weather, after a long fatiguing flight, is what you want to experience. I found it was a lot different than flying the local approaches I had memorized.

Just some food for thought.

 

[murphey]

I'll give you the same advice my CFII told me that I didn't listen to.

Get a IFR book (Gleim or ASA or Rod Machados or whoever you prefer) and read it this winter. Get an idea of what you'll be learning (it's alot cheaper then paying your CFII) you'll get an idea of some stuff and be overwhelmed by some. Relax and enjoy the Christmas/Thanksgiving holiday. January read the book again you'll pick up some more stuff and then come March start the flying portion. I didn't listen to the advice and so now I'm *grounded* and can't continue with IR since I haven't passed the written. The flying part is good and just need the written to be done.

Don't let lessons be more then about 1.3 or 1.4. Don't do more then 5 approaches a day IMHO. Enjoy the training!

Excellent advice but also dependent on where you live. In the southwest, it's really miserable to work on approaches when it's over 90F in the cabin and you're being bounced around due to ground heating &thermals.

But get the book as well as the free material on thr FAA website and study. I'm in the same boat, need to pass the written again. But in NM, AZ and Co, this is the perfect time to fly as long as you stay out of snowstorms.

 

[FORANE]

In addition to the above recommendations which are good, consider buying a comm 1 IFR communications:
http://www.comm1.com/explore/ifr.html
Also I found reading this helpful:
http://www.rodmachado.com/_available_products/instrument_flying_handbook.php

 

[saracelica]

Since when are pilots "grounded" until passing the written? I did my Instrument XC in December, took the written in February and checkride in April.

My CFII said there was no point in doing more flying until I get the written done since everything is currently to PTS standards.

 

[simtech]

My CFII said there was no point in doing more flying until I get the written done since everything is currently to PTS standards.

Get the sheppardair program. You will have it knocked out in a week.

 

[somorris]

Hi etemplet. Welcome to the forum .

I went strictly Part 61 with my IR. We spent very little time on the "ground school" portion of the flight. Maybe 15 minutes or so. A typical lesson was about 1.5 hours, which included the 15 minute pre-flight and maybe 15-20 minutes debrief after the flight and planning/scheduling the next lesson. My instructor usually only charged for the flight time.

My instructor was an older guy (although younger than me) who had a well-paying full time job and was instructing because he enjoyed teaching people to fly.

 

[jordane93]

I went strictly Part 61 with my IR. We spent very little time on the "ground school" portion of the flight. Maybe 15 minutes or so. A typical lesson was about 1.5 hours, which included the 15 minute pre-flight and maybe 15-20 minutes debrief after the flight and planning/scheduling the next lesson.

yep same thing for me. i bought the FAA instrument flying handbook and also read that before and during my training. get a written test prep book and get the written out of the way. write down after every flight what you need to work on and what things you did good. develop a good instrument scan and tell you CFII to take you in actual conditions

 

[LDJones]

If you're doing the appropriate reading ahead of time, 20 minutes of preflight prep usually covers the over view of the days lesson for most students. Early on, 1-1.3 hours is plenty. As you progress beyond the basic attitude instrument flying and we're moving into approaches the lessons may extend to 1.5-1.8. Over two hours (other than cross-country) has diminishing returns....you'll be burned out by then.

Reading through all the material ahead of time isn't a bad idea, as long as you recognize bunches of it will be somewhat meaningless until you start to apply it. But the background certainly won't help. Just try to have the written behind you by the time you get to the cross-country phase as you'll be pretty close to your ride by the time you knock those out.

 

[ChitDisturber]

I am preparing to start my Instrument Rating Training and I need some help.

How much time would be appropriate for an instructor to spend on ground school prior to an IFR training Flight ?

Depends on the stage of your training, as long as you dont feel lost while you are doing the airwork it's enough, also sim time is GREAT for IFR training, even MS flight sim with a yoke and pedals.

Also the King videos are GREAT!

http://kingschools.com/ground-school/instrument-rating/courses

What would be a standard time frame for the duration of a routine Instrument Training flight ?

Depends on how long it takes till you're saturated, when you feel like your drinking out of a fire hose tell your instructor, that's your time limit.

I told the Manager that I wanted an older pilot with a lot of knowledge and experience as an instrument instructor. I also wanted someone patient and easy to work with, enjoyable to be around. Is that too much to ask ???

Oops.

Careful with that one, I'm not a older pilot, but I am a ATP and have quite a bit more operational time in clouds then many of the "old timer" 80hrs a year rec pilots / weekend CFIs around my home drome. Going off age or how many years someone what been flying isnt always wise.

What you want is someone who has a lot of EXPERIENCE flying IFR OUTSIDE of the training world, someone who has quite a bit of IMC time, experienced icing, knows when IFR is an asset and when VFR is an asset.

Ideally a northern freight dog who CFIs on the side and has a compatible teaching style for your learning style, that would be my top (but hard to find) pick.

 

[somorris]

One other thing, etemplet. I took the IR written when I started working on the rating. The written about to expire is what prompted me to get busy and finish up .

 

[jordane93]

sim time is GREAT for IFR training

i did about 15 hours of my training in my flight schools redbird sim because it was a lot cheaper than the plane. also i wasnt able to get down holding patterns so i decided instead of paying 150 for the plane, why not pay 50 for the sim

 

[etemplet]

Hi etemplet. Welcome to the forum .

I went strictly Part 61 with my IR. We spent very little time on the "ground school" portion of the flight. Maybe 15 minutes or so. A typical lesson was about 1.5 hours, which included the 15 minute pre-flight and maybe 15-20 minutes debrief after the flight and planning/scheduling the next lesson. My instructor usually only charged for the flight time.

My instructor was an older guy (although younger than me) who had a well-paying full time job and was instructing because he enjoyed teaching people to fly.

That is the kind of relationship I am look for. It seems like to me that the FBO I visited wants to charge me 1 hour of ground school for every flight. I was told they typically block out 3 hours per lesson.

I am questing for the holy grail of instructors in my area. LOL I'm gonna find one. I got time. I'm retired. :wink2: Thanks for the input. This is exactly the type of experience I was looking for.

 

[asgcpa]

Get the sheppardair program. You will have it knocked out in a week.

 

[etemplet]

With regard to AGE - I would not have to explain to an older instructor why I want an older instructor.

When one can smile an say, "Yes Maam' " to your wife and even young ladies, they have only begun to understand...

 

[ChitDisturber]

With regard to AGE - I would not have to explain to an older instructor why I want an older instructor.

When one can smile an say, "Yes Maam' " to your wife and even young ladies, they have only begun to understand...

Lol you looking for a date or a CFI!

 

[Ghery]

My CFII said there was no point in doing more flying until I get the written done since everything is currently to PTS standards.

Keep flying or you won't be flying to PTS standards as you get rusty. Just my experience.

 

[jordane93]

My CFII said there was no point in doing more flying until I get the written done since everything is currently to PTS standards.

same thing happened to me. since my parents were helping out a lot with my lessons they told me i could fly once i passed the written. bad thng is i procrastinated and ended up taking a 5 month hiatus from flying. when i finally took my written i got my ticket in less than a month

 

[Scott@KTYR]

Alexb - that is some great advice. You Nailed it. I feel the same way.

I would talk to your instructor prior to starting and both of you can decide if the fit is good. I believe a lot of instructors are focused on just getting the student through because the student is usually very price conscious. This leads to a pilot that has the basics, but lacks practical IFR skills. It makes for some very stressful times when you are out on your own in bad weather with a scared passenger in the right seat instead of a CFII.

Here are some things I find lacking:

1. Not enough actual time. I would say forget the prescribed hours, get ALL the actual time you can. Foggles are a poor substitute.

2. Bad weather time. Flying around in VFR or light IFR isn't preparing you. The real test will come with hard weather. Better get all you can and tap your instructors weather knowledge as much as possible in the real thing. This has to go beyond the fairy tale go/no-go decisions and prepare you for the what do I do now that I am really in it decisions.

3. ATC comms. Knowing what ATC is doing and how to get what you want out of the system is like learning a new language, it takes time. Flying around VFR not using the system isn't going to prepare you for the first really bad weather day when the radio is machine gun busy. I would try and use ATC as much as possible even when shooting practice approaches, just so I could get use to the language, pace, and directions they give.

4. Even if it cost more, I would try and fly somewhere distant with my instructor on bad weather days. Going to an unfamiliar place, in bad weather, after a long fatiguing flight, is what you want to experience. I found it was a lot different than flying the local approaches I had memorized.

Just some food for thought.

 

[ChitDisturber]

same thing happened to me. since my parents were helping out a lot with my lessons they told me i could fly once i passed the written. bad thng is i procrastinated and ended up taking a 5 month hiatus from flying. when i finally took my written i got my ticket in less than a month

Guessing your parents aren't pilots

 

[jordane93]

Guessing your parents aren't pilots

my dad is for delta. mom is not