Ignorant Homebuyer & Airplane Noise

That guy's a dumb-ass.

I'm grateful I ended up in an area that's not only GA friendly, but we have a couple of big companies that are major players in the GA world.

There have always been, and will always be, folks who build a house next to an airport and then complain about noise. I'm fortunate to live somewhere that every time a complaint like that comes up, everyone from the mayor on down says, "Then why move next door to an airport, dumb-ass?"
 
As soon as he went on that rant and cussing at me, it would have been on! That mad me mad reading it, sorry you had to deal with that!
 
Geico266 said:
I'm not saying the good DR. Is right, but we as aircraft owners could certainly be better neighbors if the FAA would allow manufacturers to build mufflers for the aging aircraft fleet that didn't cost more than the plane. Straight pipes on an internal combustion engine? Really? We don't allow motor cycles or cars to drive around the streets like that, it is illegal.
Airplanes get a pass? Why?

My Rotax 912 has a muffler system that makes the plane very quiet.
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There was actually a kitplane flying in with a 912ULS while we were pushing an airplane off the runway. We didn't hear it until it damn near passed over us. We saw it and they decided to fly 20ft over us and land after us. I was impressed with the virtual silence. Not as fun as hearing 2000ft's worth of throaty six banging on the larger planes but if it shuts the neighbors up, hey!
 
jrollf said:
Now is the time to start having open houses at the airport, fun public events and education to start growing local public support for the airport. Don't wait for this guy to create a group and file a lawsuit! The pilot community at the airport needs to go on the offense immediately. Apathy by local pilots thinking no one will listen to the crazies that built right by the runway has caused the closure of many fine airports!

Consider this guys statements to be the warning shot in a battle for the life of the airport.
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The airport has been doing open houses since the early 2000's. After it was closed post 9/11 it missed out on a lot and wanted to get the word out, show people what they're about. Plus save some face seeing as how some of the 9/11 hijackers had "trained" there. They also have groupon deals that are extremely cheap and all kinds of welcome, we train pilots, learn to fly here, local airport, etc type signs.
 
Ron Levy said:
Just built the house? There's an ordinance in that county (which I testified in support of) requiring developers within the noise footprint of Freeway Airport to disclose that in the deed. Sounds like a real yutz.
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I wondered about that actually. I was hoping that they added a stipulation that would say that you cannot petition or protest to close the airport if your dumb*** buys a house, well informed by the developer, realtor, and just staying within a 5 mile radius of the airport for more than 15 minutes.
 
simtech said:
As soon as he went on that rant and cussing at me, it would have been on! That mad me mad reading it, sorry you had to deal with that!
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I took it (the only way that I could stay calm was to see it this way) as something one says to purposefully tick you off to get a reaction that they can throw in your face. Hopefully he isn't that racist and sexist but if he is that's his ultimate demise. I respect if you hate a man for the man but for color, nope. I'm not getting an assault, battery, or petty theft (the petition, steal it and pedal like hell!) charge over it. Plus, I work there so bad image if I did something stupid. Was hard to control though.
 
bigblockz8 said:
coloreds fly those, how are you even paying? (THIS ****ED ME OFF EVEN MORE) I didn't know they even taught people how to fly there. I'm going to include that, that's even more dangerous. They probably let women fly since you guys can. :mad:
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You should take a copy of his flyer, add his quote as #6 (With his name of course), and distribute the **** out of them...
 
zaitcev said:
Muffler is not the solution. Half of the noise is prop tip noise. And they still harp on the danger, pollution, what have you. Remember: appeasement never works, not with people who are out to get you no matter what. And it's different from being a good neighbour. I am all for mufflers, BTW. They are just not the solution for haters.
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We agree 100%.
 
People build mansions in the country then complain about the smell of farm animals next door; same issue, same type of people. Unfortunately this is an upward trend that isn't going to change anytime soon; call it hyper-sensitivity or hyper-gravitosis (the world revolves around me-ism)
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the guy had some grudge against aviation - maybe he tried it and washed out, or maybe a pilot ran off with his college sweetheart, who knows. It sounds almost like he moved there just so he could pick a fight.

People like that can't be reasoned with. If Big Block wanted to punch him in the nose, I would have happily held him down.
 
jtheune said:
You really need to spend a little time finding out about the planes you fly. Both Lyc and Conti do have muffler systems and the main part of the nosie comes from the prop.
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Yeah, I've posted pictures of them, but the myth continues.
 
Aztec Driver said:
And how does his prejudice affect his ability to perform his duties? Does he do a better job on white males than anyone else?
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If I were black, I would sure be afraid to go under the knife with him in the operating room!

(Actually, I would be afraid anyway, because of his stubborn ignorance.)
 
You can't fix stupid. Some people have the "me" mindset and only think about themselves. This reminds me of when I lived in Portland, OR. There was a push to revitalize an industrial section of the city. All these new expensive condos started going up. Then the residents started complaining of the noise. One newspaper article, someone who bought a condo 2 blocks from the main USPS distribution center was crying because the semis delivering the mail were using city streets, which they thought wass dangerous, and that they were being woken up at 4 in the morning from all the noise. No kidding.
 
The solution to the original post is to NOT let those developers build those houses in the first place. Yes, the buyer is ignorant and all that but don't let it get that far.

Where was the airport association, airport managers, FAA and anybody involved with aviation at that airport when the development was being planned? Not letting those plans get approved in the first place is the best place to start. Is there a pilot's association at the airport watching out for this type of encroachment? You take all his safety arguments to the planning board to explain why that development should not be approved.

Now that those houses are approved and built, it's a train wreck of a problem with more people involved. Now it's a much harder problem to fix, if at all.
 
No offense but I call BS.

bigblockz8 said:
I made sure that he didn't see the logo on my shirt and asked him some questions.


Q How are they dangerous?

A They're small planes that fly low


Q Rich guys? Those planes cost like 40,000 used, seen them on ebay.
A Those are experimental ones, the ones flying here cost millions.


Q How long have you had to listen to this noise?
A I just bought my house here six months ago. They began building it in July and finished two months ago. It's the white one over there.


Q Whoa is that a Maserati?
A Yes sir! My wife wouldn't let me have a Ferrari so we split the difference



Q Awesome, so when you were planning the house you didn't see any planes?
A We did and the realtor mentioned that there is an airport down the road but these planes shouldn't fly over our property.


Q Are they breaking the law?
A Not yet but it is annoying and noisy. I tried getting the police to do something but the officer said that it's the same as a motorcycle driving by.


Q Have you gone to the airport? Maybe learned about aviation?
A No, those idiots are company I will not associate with.


Q So you're rich, just bought a nice 620k house, have a BMW and a Maserati, bought a house knowing that those small planes fly about 400ft above you everyday 8am-8pm in summer and you're upset over the noise?

A No they make noise and fly over my property. I own everything upward of my land line.


Q But you do make a good amount of money and bought a house knowing there was an airport within walking distance?
A Well yes but like I said, we shouldn't have to deal with the planes.


Q So those rich guys have million dollar planes and putt around for fun?
A Exactly!


Q You do realize how much Freeway Airport is worth, what jobs it creates, the training it offers, and the amazing amount of good done by it?
A Why are you for it? It needs to go, this isn't 1980.


My reply: I am a student pilot, aircraft mechanic's apprentice, aviation advocate, and an aspiring airline pilot.



His reply: Well join the Air Force son,learn to fly there. You don't f*cking deserve to endanger me and my family. You have no right to. I didn't know they let coloreds fly those, how are you even paying? (THIS ****ED ME OFF EVEN MORE) I didn't know they even taught people how to fly there. I'm going to include that, that's even more dangerous. They probably let women fly since you guys can. :mad:



I got back on my bike and rode away. I don't want to deal with that crap from an ignorant and idiotic person that KNOWINGLY buys a house not even a mile from an airport! Racial and sexist remarks, hell no.


One day he will meet someone that he rubs the wrong way. Doesn't matter what race. Still though, HOW DO YOU BUY A HOUSE .65 MILES FROM AN ACTIVE GA AIRPORT AND COMPLAIN!?!?! :dunno:















* On a related note a family friend's husband recently refused to fly on Delta and is trying to get everyone he knows to boycott it. He had a 757 flight at KBWI and when the crew greeted him he saw the flight crew. The crew consisted of an African American Male Capt and a Caucasian Female FO. He remarked that a "n****r monkey and a woman" aren't going to fly his plane. He's a professor in business at a local community college. Go figure...teaches diversity in the workplace courses. :rofl:
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roncachamp said:
No Tuskegee airman achieved ace status.
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There appears to be some dispute about that; and in fact it wasn't hard to run into competing claims. For example, the case for Lee Archer:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/lee-a-archer-ace-tuskegee-airman-and-vc-dies/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Archer_(pilot)

The case for Roger Sauvage (non-American) where this page lists him as the only WWII black ace:
http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation history/WW2/aces/aces_intro.htm
http://www.blackpast.org/?q=gah/sauvage-roger-1917-1977
 
What a maroon.

Too bad you don't have a video or audio recording of his rant.

His employer and community need to know about his attitude and ridiculous prejudices. The best way to handle him might be to expose him to some daylight. How does he treat his "colored" colleagues, nurses, doctors, techs...and patients? Does he have any pilots as patients?

Unfortunately, people like this are difficult or impossible to change or educate. About all that can be done is to make him irrelevant by countering his crap with facts and educating the public. Enlisting doctor-pilots in this endeavor would be a great idea. Gotta be some Bonanza or Cirrus-owning Docs in the area, right?

I know it's crazy, but I had this mental image of Morgan Freeman meeting up with him on the bike trail.....:wink2:
 
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jchang10 said:
The solution to the original post is to NOT let those developers build those houses in the first place.
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I know of one case where the developer that built the whiners houses also owned the airport, probably not unusual given how small town real estate works. Anyway if you want to play 'you can't build here because we have an airport,' well we will just close your airport first. Make deals with the devil and you might lose.
 
alternatively, in the case of the OP, make a routine of going touch&goes in a C-210 or similar-RPM-plane at sunrise on Sat mornings.

Geico266 said:
I'm not saying the good DR. Is right, but we as aircraft owners could certainly be better neighbors if the FAA would allow manufacturers to build mufflers for the aging aircraft fleet that didn't cost more than the plane. Straight pipes on an internal combustion engine? Really? We don't allow motor cycles or cars to drive around the streets like that, it is illegal.
Airplanes get a pass? Why?

My Rotax 912 has a muffler system that makes the plane very quiet. Europe has noise restrictions on airplanes hence the Rotax was designed with one. With today's technology mufflers could easily reduce the noise level by 1/2 and not get the I public all ****ed off.

It would be a step in the right direction and a compromise for all.

I know my position won't sit well with POAers, but I think the time has come to put mufflers on airplanes.
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Aztec Driver said:
This conversation needs to be published in every paper that will cover it, including the name and address of the doctor. Those kinds of remarks will shrink his support.
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My thought was, too bad that conversation wasn't caught on video!
 
Forget the open house crap and trying to sell aviation to those that are not interested. When any meetings come up, you need to get everyone you can and show force. Call them out on the facts, when they bought the house, when it was built, how long the airport has been there, how many people are employed by it being there. And just for fun you should have every black person you know, ride thier bike past his house, and if they see him, wave to him, and give a big hello!!!!
 
I had a client once - sold some farmland right next to an airport to a developer. Out here in Southern California in 1988. I put in a covenant which would run with the land for the rest of time when the farmland was sold to a developer:

"Grantee acknowledges that the demised premises are within 100 feet of the property boundary of XYZ airport. Said airport carries with it the risk of noise, airplane accidents and pollution. Grantor reserves to Grantor for all time all claims and causes of actions pertaining to pollution of any sort and type as well as nuisance, constructive inverse condemnation and any and all claims as may not exist or as may heretoafter arise pertaining from and to the operation of the XYZ airport as now constituted or as may be expanded or consolidated for all time."

Predictably, 7 or 8 years later, someone in the housing development began a crusade against the airport because of the noise and 'risk.' Said homeowner retained a lawyer who made zero effort to read the covenant to which their land was bound. Said lawyer brought a noise pollution lawsuit - promptly dismissed by courts of smarter people. Then they sued the developer for 'failure to disclose,' then when that was dismissed they sued their own lawyers for their own stupidity - and at the end of the day nobody got anything.

They now are trying to pull a Santa Monica - so the current city council and city manager who sees the benefit of the airport - just took a new 30 year grant and thumbed their nose at these people who bought next to an airport and complained because they bought houses next to an airport.
 
There was a period of time where "helpful" pilots were requesting the noise complaints from the "tip line" set up by FAA long ago at KAPA, via FOIA, and filing "defective property" notices against all the whiner's houses for the next owners, until the Judge decided his docket was full of that nonsense and ordered FAA to turn off the answering machine and answer their own phone line. ;)
 
If there isn't already, there really ought to be some kind of law to protect an airport, a farm, a racetrack, or whatever that was in the area first from people who move in afterwards and try to force them out.

I can understand someone complaining if they bought a house and sometime down the line the airport was built next door. But he knew it was there for god sakes. What a selfish prick.
 
cowman said:
If there isn't already, there really ought to be some kind of law to protect an airport, a farm, a racetrack, or whatever that was in the area first from people who move in afterwards and try to force them out.

I can understand someone complaining if they bought a house and sometime down the line the airport was built next door. But he knew it was there for god sakes. What a selfish prick.
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many states do have "right to farm" laws
 
There has been massive development just off and beside the recent extension of runway 10R/28L at KFCM. New, large upscale homes are going up constantly. I'd estimate several hundred family units with all the condos and townhomes included. It's inevitable that we will end up with multiple jerks just like the OOP ran into. Very frustrating.

Google satellite view shows some of this but not all of the most recent.
 
N801BH said:
Well... That is not entirely true... All the lawyers got alot of cash..:yes::hairraise::eek:
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well, me thinks lawyer #1 coughed up everything except what time as reasonably competent title search would take - as in 10 minutes ordering one from FATCOLA.

lawyer #2 then was paid ultimately by #1 insurance company. As was #3.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Close all the airports. Who here would sign a petition to ban jetskis from their favorite lake? Close a local gun range or race track? Same stuff, everyone is willing to ban the other guys freedoms so I can't get excited about saving any of them. And no GA is not different, those poor little doggies could be driven to their new homes.
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No way do I sign such stupid petitions. Besides, I belong to the gun club with the largest trap range west of the Mississippi. :D

zaitcev said:
Muffler is not the solution. Half of the noise is prop tip noise. And they still harp on the danger, pollution, what have you. Remember: appeasement never works, not with people who are out to get you no matter what. And it's different from being a good neighbour. I am all for mufflers, BTW. They are just not the solution for haters.
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Just ask Neville Chamberlain how well appeasement worked for him...
 
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