I had a friend who used to work the tower at HHR and he told the story about the tower supe who bought a house near the airport so he'd be close to work and then complain about airplane noise.
Ignorant Homebuyer & Airplane Noise
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Bob Noel
"tower supe" 'nuff said. :wink2:
Threefingeredjack
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Threefingeredjack
For some reason this scenario is repeated all over the country, much to my befuddlement. While stationed in Hawaii we were forced to share the runways with the Navy, ( OK, OK, it was technically called NAS Barbers Point), the base had been there since the 30s I believe, yet sure enough as housing encroached in the 80s the complaints ensued. 
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Just to be fair, though, he is also said to be responsible for the British industrial modernization that helped produce enough Spitfires, Hurricanes, etc. to hold off the Nazis until the Soviet Union and the U.S. were dragged into the war.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
For some reason this scenario is repeated all over the country, much to my befuddlement. While stationed in Hawaii we were forced to share the runways with the Navy, ( OK, OK, it was technically called NAS Barbers Point), the base had been there since the 30s I believe, yet sure enough as housing encroached in the 80s the complaints ensued.
One time when the Collings Foundation had a couple of their WW II warplanes giving rides out of Moffett Field, I called the base and told them that I appreciated seeing and hearing the old airplanes over my neighborhood! (I live under the downwind leg.)
MSPAviator
Cleared for Takeoff
I would like to buy one of those townhomes on the south side of FCM. Too bad they are all bought up. In the mean time I will occasionally make sure the houses in the area get to hear the sound of freedom.
Tom-D
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I am still steaming over an encounter with an ignorant doctor this past evening. I was riding my bike home from work, at Freeway Airport. New houses are being built on short final for rwy 18. Nice expensive homes without yards. A McMansion type of deal. I was wearing a Freeway Aviation shirt with the runway and an image of a plane flaring on the back. A gentleman was handing out flyers and basically blocked the bike trail to hand one to me. He introduced himself as xxxxx Cartenson, neurologist. I read it. I dismounted and couldn't believe this bullsh*t. It was a petition and reasons why Freeway needs to be closed.
#1 dangerous aircraft
#2 noise
#3 Rich people playing with their loud toys
#4 Unsafe (he had that twice)
#5, #5 is interesting. He had an argument stolen from stopthenoise.org
We deal with the unnecessary noise that is a direct consequence of unnecessary recreational flying. We believe that such activities force you to subsidize the hobby of some anonymous pilot by giving up your property, your privacy, your peace and your quiet so that a wealthy few may zoom about in their noisy little airplanes.
It is not our intent to shut down General Aviation. It is our intent to make General Aviation responsible to the public interest. We see the public interest as something other than the profitability of aviation and the enjoyment of a few barnstormers. We see the public interest as something other than a recreation industry that knowingly ruins the homes and lives of non-participants. We see the public interest as the re-empowerment of American property owners to be able to enjoy the peace, comfort and privacy of their hard-earned homes without the endless intrusions of aerial dirt-bikers.
We have no issues with high altitude transports. We certainly support activities such as Life Flight Air Ambulances, Angel Flight, Search and Rescue and other emergency services. We may tolerate general aviation craft engaged in legitimate point-to-point navigation. What we won't tolerate are aerobatics, Sunday flyers, leaf peepers, and flight schools using our airspace as recreational sites or as industrial training areas for their personal profit and amusement at the expense of the private property owners and residents below.
This kind of noise doesn't "just happen". It is, without question, man-made. Therefore, someone is responsible. That responsible someone can be made to cease and desist.
I made sure that he didn't see the logo on my shirt and asked him some questions.
Q How are they dangerous?
A They're small planes that fly low
Q Rich guys? Those planes cost like 40,000 used, seen them on ebay.
A Those are experimental ones, the ones flying here cost millions.
Q How long have you had to listen to this noise?
A I just bought my house here six months ago. They began building it in July and finished two months ago. It's the white one over there.
Q Whoa is that a Maserati?
A Yes sir! My wife wouldn't let me have a Ferrari so we split the difference
Q Awesome, so when you were planning the house you didn't see any planes?
A We did and the realtor mentioned that there is an airport down the road but these planes shouldn't fly over our property.
Q Are they breaking the law?
A Not yet but it is annoying and noisy. I tried getting the police to do something but the officer said that it's the same as a motorcycle driving by.
Q Have you gone to the airport? Maybe learned about aviation?
A No, those idiots are company I will not associate with.
Q So you're rich, just bought a nice 620k house, have a BMW and a Maserati, bought a house knowing that those small planes fly about 400ft above you everyday 8am-8pm in summer and you're upset over the noise?
A No they make noise and fly over my property. I own everything upward of my land line.
Q But you do make a good amount of money and bought a house knowing there was an airport within walking distance?
A Well yes but like I said, we shouldn't have to deal with the planes.
Q So those rich guys have million dollar planes and putt around for fun?
A Exactly!
Q You do realize how much Freeway Airport is worth, what jobs it creates, the training it offers, and the amazing amount of good done by it?
A Why are you for it? It needs to go, this isn't 1980.
My reply: I am a student pilot, aircraft mechanic's apprentice, aviation advocate, and an aspiring airline pilot.
His reply: Well join the Air Force son,learn to fly there. You don't f*cking deserve to endanger me and my family. You have no right to. I didn't know they let coloreds fly those, how are you even paying? (THIS ****ED ME OFF EVEN MORE) I didn't know they even taught people how to fly there. I'm going to include that, that's even more dangerous. They probably let women fly since you guys can.
I got back on my bike and rode away. I don't want to deal with that crap from an ignorant and idiotic person that KNOWINGLY buys a house not even a mile from an airport! Racial and sexist remarks, hell no.
One day he will meet someone that he rubs the wrong way. Doesn't matter what race. Still though, HOW DO YOU BUY A HOUSE .65 MILES FROM AN ACTIVE GA AIRPORT AND COMPLAIN!?!?!
* On a related note a family friend's husband recently refused to fly on Delta and is trying to get everyone he knows to boycott it. He had a 757 flight at KBWI and when the crew greeted him he saw the flight crew. The crew consisted of an African American Male Capt and a Caucasian Female FO. He remarked that a "n****r monkey and a woman" aren't going to fly his plane. He's a professor in business at a local community college. Go figure...teaches diversity in the workplace courses.
You should have beat the crap out of him and then called the cops and told them he attacked you.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Gosh, that can't be too difficult. I've replaced my uber-expensive exhaust system on my Lycoming O-540 equipped Piper Pathfinder twice in the 10 years I've owned it. That's actually better than average -- if you go through the logbooks, it's actually been replaced every four years, on average, going back to 1974 when it was built.
Almost any idiot could design a better muffler than the one on my Pathfinder.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
This is what I was trying to say a while back. With today's techonogy and manufacturing processes designing a new, more efficent exhaust system. But the process and expense of getting it certified is prohibitive and keeps innovation away from aviation, except in experimentals.
During the power outage following the recent hurricane, I would wake up and not know the time, so assuming it to be morning, I'd go into the kitchen where the only working clock is and discover it was still the middle of the night. Eventually, I got smart enough to stay in bed and wait for the same alarm clock we use at Oshkosh. The first airplane goes overhead at about 6:00.
ChrisK
En-Route
I got my buddy to bring a flight of Blackhawks into my local field and the airport received several phone calls of "omg sweet!" while I was there.
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Wayne
Kodak in Rochester had a G-III that the chairman used to visit his vacation house in Naples, FL. The crew had dinner before flying back home and took off while the big dog was entertaining on his patio. Without knowing the identity of the problem, he filed a noise complaint on his own plane.
flyingmoose
Pattern Altitude
Hey talk is cheap fellas! How bout ya show us how easy it should be? I guess that why we have forums, so we can discuss what everyone else should be doing. Ha
Borla, Supertrap and other high quality muffler manufacturers have it down to a science... Now if the FAA would lighten up on their assinine requirements those products could be incorporated into existing airframes with 100% success and minimal expense..
flyingmoose
Pattern Altitude
That is definitely part of the problem that one overcome to bring a product to market. And after all that u still need to make it affordable.
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Sent from my BlackBerry 9330 using Tapatalk
If Corsa make an exhaust system for the 182 I'd most definitely purchase it. Then the airplane wouldn't be the only "vehicle" in the family without Corsa.
Seriously I can't believe people. I fly out of all GA airport south of the international. But, I am lucky enough to live on the final approach path of KPHX. I see airplanes all day and hear them all night, it's cool. Just yesterday I saw an F16 while I was standing on my deck. I knew where I was living when I moved in. But just two days ago I signed a petition to stop some high rise apartments from being being very near my flying airport. There is already a HUGE crane on the departure end of 22R/L, meaning arrival end of 4L/R. Seriously we don't need a 200ft crane where a bunch of students are but until that development is done gotta deal...
Seriously I can't believe people. I fly out of all GA airport south of the international. But, I am lucky enough to live on the final approach path of KPHX. I see airplanes all day and hear them all night, it's cool. Just yesterday I saw an F16 while I was standing on my deck. I knew where I was living when I moved in. But just two days ago I signed a petition to stop some high rise apartments from being being very near my flying airport. There is already a HUGE crane on the departure end of 22R/L, meaning arrival end of 4L/R. Seriously we don't need a 200ft crane where a bunch of students are but until that development is done gotta deal...
Everskyward
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Did he buy a quieter plane?
I think in that part of FLA they instituted a Stage III requirement, just like here in Jackson Hole. They either bought a new plane with better motors or had some "hush" kits installed..
DaleB
Final Approach
When we bought our previous house, I knew and LIKED the fact that we were right under the pattern for KMLE. I regarded it as a plus. Of course, I grew up living directly under one of the approaches for Offutt AFB during Vietnam... nonstop KC-135s, EC-135s, F4s, and once in a while a Vulcan (super cool, that old bird).
Having said that... I'll be looking at the viability of Supertrapps or something on my RV. I don't know at this point if it's practical or not, but I'm a big fan of cutting down cabin noise. I don't care so much what it sounds like from the ground.
Having said that... I'll be looking at the viability of Supertrapps or something on my RV. I don't know at this point if it's practical or not, but I'm a big fan of cutting down cabin noise. I don't care so much what it sounds like from the ground.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
They had a Global which was in one of the hangars at Dulles that collapsed under the snow a few years ago. They probably don't have any airplanes now since they are in bankruptcy.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Anyone who's ever lived near an AFB or NAS has heard the complaints...and seen the bumper stickers that say, "The Sound of Freedom!"
gismo
Touchdown! Greaser!
The vast majority of the noise created by your average GA piston single is from the prop, not the exhaust. Granted the exhaust adds some but I can guarantee you that if you eliminated all the exhaust noise the idiot who wants to close your airport wouldn't be the least bit appeased.
HighFlyingA380
Cleared for Takeoff
This thread reminds me of this comic. Pretty sure they're on to something with that.
(BTW, if you're not already following Chicken Wings, then you're missing out.)
iflyforfun
Pre-takeoff checklist
As and Aero Eng and pilot, I love planes as much as anyone. That said, I can see how some of this could come as a surprise to a new home owner. We've lived in Canton, OH twice just off of runway 23 ... very regularly the favored runway. Used to sit out in the back yard, sip a beer and watch the planes on final.
When we bought the second house (moved away for a while then returned to the same neighborhood), the real estate agent pointed out that proximity to an airport was on the disclosure list ... I believe she said it was a required disclosure or we could sue the buyer. I told her I well knew that and being 5 minutes from my hanger was a big plus.
Anyway, I still remember having lived in the first house for a few months when the wind shifted and the airport used runway 5. I know I should have known better, but I was really surprised by how loud the commuters were. It became a bit of a joke, especially in the winter. We'd be sitting in the house and the windows would rattle and my wife, not a pilot, would beat me to the punch "So, the winds shifted."
The upside is that I was home for lunch once and the President (Bush II) departed in Airforce One right over the house ... I swear all I had to do was reach up and I could have touched the belly. It really was awesome.
So, all above, I can understand how someone could be surprised. To me, who should know better, it was a bit of a surprise. I'd been in the neighborhood many time before buying, but when the wind shifted, it was LOUD. To me, it was music to my ears. I can see how someone else would be surprised and upset. To them, I'd say "tough tookies, you were told", but I can see how it would happen.
I'd suggest that the local pilot put up a billboard or road side signs making sure all potential home buyers are informed of the airport proximity. Maybe even have a lawyer make sure that all of the sellers are listing the airport in their property disclosure. Won't stop the gripping, but I think it would make it a bit more difficult for people to complain.