IFR currency question

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by AggieMike88, Sep 5, 2018.

  1. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I had a buddy ask a question about IFR currency, specifically intercepting and tracking a course through use of navigation systems. My application of Google Fu isn't finding this answer. So I turn to the PoA Hive Mind.

    The regs sayeth.....

    61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.
    [​IMG] c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:
    1. For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought --
      1. At least six instrument approaches;
      2. Holding procedures; and
      3. Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation systems.

    1. How long or far must I track that "beam" for the activity to satisfy the regs?
    2. Does intercepting and tracking a localizer count?
     
  2. gsengle

    gsengle Pattern Altitude

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    If you’re established on the course you’re done and yes ILS counts...


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  3. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I don’t think you could really do any of the other stuff for currency and NOT end up tracking.
     
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  4. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    don't over think this.....it's not necessary. :confused:

    once those things are logged....it's history.
     
  5. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes to your question Mike, as the others have said. Tracking on approaches and/or holding meets the requirement of intercepting/tracking courses.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  6. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Maybe I need to schedule an IPC with you someday.... not only get that on the books, but also prove to myself that I can fly in IMC with you needling me the entire time.
     
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  7. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  8. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Unless you tried to fly 6 ASR or PAR approaches for currency. I think that is what the tracking requirement is intended to prevent.
     
  9. RussR

    RussR Cleared for Takeoff

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    You could conceivably perform 6 ASR approaches to get the "approach" credit without tracking courses. However, I can't see how you could do "holding procedures" without tracking a course.

    Darn, @azure beat me. But still, the holding pattern.
     
  10. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Lol, thank god they put a stop to that!
     
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  11. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Fifties and Hundreds.
     
  12. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route

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  13. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Don't wear 'em anymore. 20 years in the Air Force and 24 at an airline was enough I think. :D
     
  14. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  15. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Step your game up!

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  16. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  17. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    Technically any tracking you do while flying meets the requirement...the devil in the details is merely logging it, since if you didn't log it, it doesn't count. I logged tracking every time I logged a hold so that I wouldn't have to look in too many places.
     
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  18. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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  19. SbestCFII

    SbestCFII Line Up and Wait

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    All approaches involve intercepting and tracking an electronic navigation source, so the “intercepting and tracking is implicit in the six required approaches. The currency refs may as well just say, 6 approaches and holding procedures. The “intercepting and tracking” verbiage is superfluous.
     
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  20. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Ummm... ALL approaches? Are you sure about that? Seems somewhere I heard of something called a PAR approach... also ASR approaches... :rolleyes:
     
  21. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's still an electronic navigation source, it's just being relayed to you audibly.
     
  22. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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  23. ja_user

    ja_user Cleared for Takeoff

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    So you are also going to do a PAR hold?
     
  24. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think those shirts had them, didn’t they?
     
  25. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    My understanding is, though, that it doesn't count for "tracking", and that's the main reason the requirement is stated explicitly.
     
  26. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Not sure why you quoted my post for this, unless you misunderstood what I was saying. FTR, PAR approaches do NOT involve tracking (or holding) that you can count towards the requirement.

    AFAIK, that is. :)
     
  27. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    I guess they did, just not the same design.
     
  28. ja_user

    ja_user Cleared for Takeoff

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    Correct, but you can't do a hold without navigating and tracking something. That was my point.. If you have the 6 approaches and hold, you always have the navigation part done.
     
  29. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Well it's tangential to the point *I* was making (so I still don't see why you quoted me), but okay. Your point is really that item 3 in the FAA's list (intercepting and tracking) is superfluous, and they could have left it at 1 and 2 if all they wanted to say was 6 PAR approaches for currency is not enough. Is that really true? You can't hold without tracking, but can you hold without intercepting? Hmmm...
     
  30. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    There really isn't much guidance in either the Proposed Rule or the 1997 Final Rule for the "intercepting and tracking" language which most find a bit superfluous.

    The revision, which also included getting rid of the 6 hours requirement, was, according to the Proposed Rule prompted by a private rulemaking petition which argued the existing 6 approaches/6 hours rule was too loose and that certain tasks should be specified. So we got the holds as a requirement and, in the Proposed Rule, it was "intercepting and tracking VOR radials and NDB bearings"

    In the final rule, it was expanded to "Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation systems" for pretty obvious reasons. It does seem pretty clear from the context, that "navigation systems" means on-board navigation systems, not instructions from some guy on the ground. So, while not really clear, it does seem to fit the common wisdom (an oxymoron?) that there was some recognition there are approaches which do not use onboard nav systems and the FAA wanted to ensure intercepting and tracking was covered.

    Superfluous with the holding requirement? Probably. But we have all seen the FARs strangely parsed by people looking for a loophole.
     
  31. ja_user

    ja_user Cleared for Takeoff

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    It seems like you'd intercept every time you enter or hold, and in many cases on every inbound turn.
     
  32. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    In my plane, that's true. My 480 tells my HSI to set the inbound leg as the desired course, so you have to intercept it after you turn. It does display the entire hold track with the outbound leg as a dotted line but gives no course guidance for it. If it's a timed hold it wouldn't make sense to give course guidance for the outbound leg, as you need to adjust its length based on wind conditions. But what about a hold where the legs are defined by distances, like most HILPTs on RNAV(GPS) approaches? I was wondering if some modern units might give you course guidance for the entire hold, so you could track it without doing any intercepting. I'm not sure how useful that would be since the placement of the outbound leg depends on wind as well, but anyway, that was my thinking.