I drive an old car so I can fly an old airplane.

Trying to find the crash test video for the SmartCar, or maybe it was the other tiny one... [Edit: the ForTwo, or whatever?]

Basically the video showed that in an offset head on, they get launched. Backward.
 
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Get a subaru, best engineered car for the money, I think if more people knew about subies no one would drive a honda or toyota.

FYI, a car will never fall apart or break down if it is maintained properly (much like a plane).
 
Subaru has the best 4x4 system out there in cars.

This is just one video I've seen, and there's plenty of them...

 
NineThreeKilo said:
FYI, a car will never fall apart or break down if it is maintained properly (much like a plane).
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BALONEY!​

I treated my convertible better than my airplane! Always garaged, gently driven (mostly), got all its maintenance on schedule. None of that stopped a tie rod from breaking, sending me into a 70 mph spin that ended abruptly on a jersey wall!
 
Henning said:
Hmmm... Peoria... Wanna sell one of those trucks? Would be a good excuse to drop in on Bruce and refresh my medical.
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not for sale. In fact I'm always on the hunt for another one.
 
I've seen a few comments about the Focus. I bought one of those for my daughter when she was in high school. I don't remember right now, but I think it's an '03? Had 75K miles on it with a 5-speed and the DOHC engine. That thing runs just fine, and is about to get her out of college and probably through a couple more years until she can get a new(er) car on her own.

I'd consider on for myself, too, but we already have a smaller car and I need to get a larger one for carrying stuff.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
Get a subaru, best engineered car for the money, I think if more people knew about subies no one would drive a honda or toyota.

FYI, a car will never fall apart or break down if it is maintained properly (much like a plane).
Click to expand...

Subaru has been pretty good quality since about 1990. Before that, they were pure crap.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Subaru has been pretty good quality since about 1990. Before that, they were pure crap.
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The saying I remember about them back in the day is "Subaru spelled backwards is 'u r a bus'.

My folks have 2 Outbacks, early/mid 2000s. They bought one, and liked it so much they bought another.
 
SCCutler said:
Contrarian view here, Peg.

Avoid VWs - fun to drive, heart-stoppingly costly when they break. Ask me how I know. Or, ask Nate!
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I dunno... I could change the engine in a 1968 Beetle in about an hour and a half, start to finish, when I was in my 20's and collected them. I guess you men the non-Beetle VW's.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
I dunno... I could change the engine in a 1968 Beetle in about an hour and a half, start to finish, when I was in my 20's and collected them. I guess you men the non-Beetle VW's.

-Rich
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That's funny. Drove my wife's '68 Beetle to the office today.

Original engine (rebuilt twice) is now at 300,000 miles.

44 years old, lifetime cost ... not so much. :)
 
Jaybird180 said:
Drive it like you stole it! (yes, there is data to support that).
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Most engines have the equivalent of his "20 miles" on them in the automotive world when they hit the dealership floor. Not in miles, but they've been started, run, the vehicle is moved around, put on truck, etc... so if that doofus thinks you get a car at "zero" miles, and only have "the first 20 miles" to break it in, I guess he hasn't really done "over 300 cars", unless he's built 300 engines himself and installed them.
 
denverpilot said:
Trying to find the crash test video for the SmartCar, or maybe it was the other tiny one... [Edit: the ForTwo, or whatever?]

Basically the video showed that in an offset head on, they get launched. Backward.
Click to expand...


Yes, but safely. The SMART uses an entirely different theory on crash safety, I call it the 'Ping Pong Ball method to crash worthiness'. It's quite ingenious and works very well. The theory is to minimize kinetic energy by minimizing mass and building that mass into a structure that is unable to be intruded into at its normal operating levels of kinetic energy, so when they get in an accident, they bounce. It's a development in materials science and engineering by Mercedes Benz, not some undersized piece of Indian crap.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Crown Vic. Safe, big, comfy, and if you get a used Police Interceptor people will think you're a cop and make a better effort to avoid you.
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Arent't those the ones that were bursting into flame and burning officers when their stopped vehicles were rear ended?

Peggy, glad da Hubby is ok!
 
Henning said:
Yes, but safely. The SMART uses an entirely different theory on crash safety, I call it the 'Ping Pong Ball method to crash worthiness'. It's quite ingenious and works very well. The theory is to minimize kinetic energy by minimizing mass and building that mass into a structure that is unable to be intruded into at its normal operating levels of kinetic energy, so when they get in an accident, they bounce. It's a development in materials science and engineering by Mercedes Benz, not some undersized piece of Indian crap.
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That's fine. Forgive me if I don't feel like riding inside the ping long ball during the wreck.
 
Henning said:
Yes, but safely. The SMART uses an entirely different theory on crash safety, I call it the 'Ping Pong Ball method to crash worthiness'. It's quite ingenious and works very well. The theory is to minimize kinetic energy by minimizing mass and building that mass into a structure that is unable to be intruded into at its normal operating levels of kinetic energy, so when they get in an accident, they bounce. It's a development in materials science and engineering by Mercedes Benz, not some undersized piece of Indian crap.
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... well, they did engineer impressive stiffness into the vehicle. However, the vehicle mass is low and they didn't have a crush zone to work with to absorb energy.

Run the calcs for the g-forces seen by the occupant during a near instantaneous rebound, post collision with a larger vehicle. They are huge, and just as physically devastating as intrusion.


Many high school physics classes simulate this with their egg-drop-off-the-building engineering competitions. If the container is stiff, the egg doesn't survive.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Crown Vic. Safe, big, comfy, and if you get a used Police Interceptor people will think you're a cop and make a better effort to avoid you.
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I'll third or 4th this. I had a 98 police interceptor for about 10 years.

They hold up VERY well in crashes, they're very cheap to maintain and tend to not have many problems. Handling, braking, acceleration are all very good for a car of it's size. You can fit almost as much people/stuff in one as a medium sized SUV too! MPG wise, mine averaged around 20 with typical mixed driving. Maybe closer to 18 city/23 highway real world. Not as good as some other sedans but with all the other advantages I always thought it was worth the trade-off.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Why not stick with the "old" car?
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Glad it works for you, but I don't see that as a transportation solution for most people. Reliability, crashworthyness, efficiency, and costs of preventive maintainance all favor more recent models. The idea of going without airbags or even shoulder belts isn't my idea of a good trade-off.
 
Matthew said:
I've seen a few comments about the Focus. I bought one of those for my daughter when she was in high school. I don't remember right now, but I think it's an '03? Had 75K miles on it with a 5-speed and the DOHC engine. That thing runs just fine, and is about to get her out of college and probably through a couple more years until she can get a new(er) car on her own.

I'd consider on for myself, too, but we already have a smaller car and I need to get a larger one for carrying stuff.
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If it means something, I rarely ever have a request for the 01-04 Focus DOHC engines. The last one I had I sold for $295 and I was glad to get that.

In contrast, the SOHC engines of the same range were always in demand and brought 4 times that amount on average.

The only other thing I regularly sold out of Focuses (Foci?) were the lamps and the window regulators out of the rear doors. Never the fronts though.. go figure.
 
denverpilot said:
That's fine. Forgive me if I don't feel like riding inside the ping long ball during the wreck.
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What is the g load imparted on the passengers of the ping pong ball when the impact force is a head to head closure rate of 100mph with the ping pong ball reversing direction at say 20mph? And that's city driving speeds away from the high speed dangerous stuff. Survivable? What is the failure loading rating for seatbelt attach points?

The smart car sandwich I saw the wreckage of was a typical ho hum routine city rear ending scenario. Car stopped behind another car at a light. The impactor vehicle rams one car and sandwiches it between the two. Anyone in that smart car was dead within tenths of a second after the initial impact. A little toy car has no chance between two big high mass steel structure vehicles. It was completely crushed. There was no room between the two bigger vehicles for someone to survive.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Arent't those the ones that were bursting into flame and burning officers when their stopped vehicles were rear ended?

Peggy, glad da Hubby is ok!
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Sure you're not thinking Pinto here?

Then again, you could do opt for the upgrade:


Click the picture for the web page
 
denverpilot said:
If pickup truck isn't good, 76 Coupe DeVille. That'll destroy anything it hits, too.

$8995 in Ohio. Here ya go...

http://classiccars.com/listing-366776/1976-cadillac-coupe-deville-for-sale-in-eastlake-ohio-us.html

It's like riding around on a sofa. Hahaha.
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AggieMike88 said:
Careful... your're starting to think like Spike. He has a love of mobile zip codes and land yachts.
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You got me - I already fell in love. What a beaut!

That is a very fair price.
 
I agree with the guys touting Ford Crown Vickies, especialy the Police Interceptor versions. They usually even have the spotlight left on the drivers windshield post. Actually any of big Ford cars, like a Mercury Grand Marquis of a Lincoln Town car would be in your budget range, and they last forever, with very decent gas mileage to boot. I owned limo services, and we usually ran our Lincolns to over a half million miles on the original engines. These are big, safe, comfortable cars and are eminently crash worthy.
 
Add the Mercury Marauder to the potential list.

It's the "hot rod" version of the Grand Marquis. Has the interceptor drive train and upgraded interior.

Nice car... has a big online following. (and it's a profitable car to sell parts off of :) )
 
SCCutler said:
You got me - I already fell in love. What a beaut!

That is a very fair price.
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Great minds think alike, eh? Heheh. I told Karen I was tempted to drive to Ohio. Haha. That thing would be a hoot for my 4 mile commute, and long road trips. Haha.

Shoulder harnesses aren't needed when you can't possibly hit the dash. It's in the next county somewhere ahead. Probably busting through a brick wall. You wouldn't know.

Airbag? The 8L V8 out front will absorb the shock. Heh.

Did you guys see the last photo in the set on that Caddy? 6500 GVWR. That two door car from the 70s weighs more than my 4x4 GMC Yukon.

The thing with those old Caddys is all the %+<#^++ rotted out vacuum hose you'll have to replace as they break. All the engine controls were vacuum, the cruise control, the brake boost, and even the ultra fancy for the day, automatic climate control. I chased a vacuum leak in one of those for a month trying to get the stupid thing to stop blowing hot air from all the vents. Haha.

Ironically, guess what there's a recall for on my 2004 GMC? The control board for the rear heat/cool motor control board that opens and closes the heat door. Mine hasn't misbehaved but once, and a re-start/re-boot of the truck straightened it out. But it's funny that the electronic version ended up no better than simple vacuum controls. LOL.
 
kyleb said:
Glad it works for you, but I don't see that as a transportation solution for most people. Reliability, crashworthyness, efficiency, and costs of preventive maintainance all favor more recent models. The idea of going without airbags or even shoulder belts isn't my idea of a good trade-off.
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Ah, if most people took that path it wouldn't be nearly as fun.

Practically speaking, however, if you've got the DNA for it -- shoulder belts are easily available retrofits, the MPG on the old straight sixes ain't bad, and the maintenance on a car that has nothing but an engine, and alternator, and a battery under the hood is pretty low.

As a matter of fact, I'd bet my total cost of ownership, including fuel, purchase price, dealer visits, and depreciation would kick butt compared to most newer cars.

I'm driving a straight six '64 Chevelle right now. Picked it up 2 1/2 years ago with 23,000 miles for $4500. Estate car that was stored in a clean garage for nearly 40 years.

The interior looked like it had never been sat in, and it drives like a new 1964 car. ;)

Cost me replacements of 4 dry rotted tires, a fuel pump with a split diaphram, new brake lines, plugs, and wires, and points in the first month.

That's it.

(Well, I did swap out the 3-on-the-tree transmission for an E-bay one with the Borg-Warner electric overdrive tailstock. Brought the highway MPG into the 20s at 70mph.)
 
Matthew said:
The saying I remember about them back in the day is "Subaru spelled backwards is 'u r a bus'.

My folks have 2 Outbacks, early/mid 2000s. They bought one, and liked it so much they bought another.
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I've always loved Subaru's, but I've never been able to swallow the crappy milage. That nice and valuable 4 wheel drive comes at a cost. Seems like the best Subaru still won't break 25 mph (except maybe the old Justy with the CVT ... had a friend who had one back in the 90s and it was indestructible and got great milage).
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Ah, if most people took that path it wouldn't be nearly as fun.

Practically speaking, however, if you've got the DNA for it -- shoulder belts are easily available retrofits, the MPG on the old straight sixes ain't bad, and the maintenance on a car that has nothing but an engine, and alternator, and a battery under the hood is pretty low.

As a matter of fact, I'd bet my total cost of ownership, including fuel, purchase price, dealer visits, and depreciation would kick butt compared to most newer cars.

I'm driving a straight six '64 Chevelle right now. Picked it up 2 1/2 years ago with 23,000 miles for $4500. Estate car that was stored in a clean garage for nearly 40 years.

The interior looked like it had never been sat in, and it drives like a new 1964 car. ;)

Cost me replacements of 4 dry rotted tires, a fuel pump with a split diaphram, new brake lines, plugs, and wires, and points in the first month.

That's it.

(Well, I did swap out the 3-on-the-tree transmission for an E-bay one with the Borg-Warner electric overdrive tailstock. Brought the highway MPG into the 20s at 70mph.)
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Huh. Silly me. I have literally not had to lay a wrench or screwdriver on any vehicle I've owned since about 2002, if you don't count helping Junior sort out his Focus after plowing it into something concrete. No tuneups, no points, no plugs, no hoses, belts, fuel pumps, windshield washer pumps, brake lines, nuthin'. Oh, wait -- I guess we did have to replace a battery or two along the way. And I did have to have a breaker and a mag pickup for the speedo replaced on the Harley.

I remember the classic old 60s and 70s vintage cars; hell, that's all I drove for a lot of years. I'm glad you like them. As for me, I don't miss the ongoing maintenance or lack of handling one teeny little bit. My F150 will corner better than any of the cars I drove in high school, and accelerate better than most of them -- and it gets better gas mileage, too. And the garage doesn't stink of partly-combusted gasoline and leaking oil.
 
denverpilot said:
Ironically, guess what there's a recall for on my 2004 GMC? The control board for the rear heat/cool motor control board that opens and closes the heat door. Mine hasn't misbehaved but once, and a re-start/re-boot of the truck straightened it out. But it's funny that the electronic version ended up no better than simple vacuum controls. LOL.
Click to expand...

Has has the instrument cluster been behaving? While no recall, there is a design issue that has created significant demand for my good used ones and rebuilt units.
 
If anyone is interested, my one-owner, one-driver pewter 2001 2WD Suburban LS will be listed soon. ~125K miles, no open squawks. Always stored in garage or carport. No hail. Clean but with the normal assortment of minor dings that you'd expect after 11 years of use. None require any attention or body work, most would disappear with a tube of touch-up paint and some rubbing compound. Tires are half-life, battery is good but I don't remember when it was replaced. I'd call it half-life too, but just a guess.

Heavy-duty rubber mats on floors and rear compartment since new. Recent MX (within 18 months) includes water pump, ABS controller, A/C pressure switch. The lifters tick for a minute or so after the first start of the day, but I'm told that all similar engines do so after 75k and haven't worried about it but I don't know squat about that stuff. It uses part of quart of oil between changes, I think I've added a total of three quarts other than normal changes since new. Cloth seats are in good condition for their age, all except driver's seat would rate higher. Driver's seat has no major defects, but shows some wear after hauling my size-XL arse around for 11 years.

Normal LS options package plus remote garage control, trailer brake control and third-row seat and a few other things I can't remember. My car guy says they are selling for 5-6k in this area, which is noted for high percentage of 'Burbs, so don't know how that translates to other areas.

One issue that has bugged me for years involves the driver-side back window. In 2004, somebody broke the driver's window and stole some stuff. The Chevy body shop fixed everything, but some time later I noticed (how could you not notice?) that occasionally the rear window would open without command, but only if the child-proof window lock was in the unlocked position. If the switch is kept in the locked position, it works flawlessly and has never moved an inch. I assume it's just a wire or switch problem, but since I'm usually alone it has never mattered enough to investigate further. If somebody else is in the car ang ******* about opening the window, I just unlock the window button while they're in the car. The window doesn't usually open by itself, but if it does I just tell them it's all their fault for making me unlock it.

It will be for sale because it has been replaced with a newer version of the same vehicle, not because of dependability but simply because I wanted one. Ted and Laurie have ridden around in it for part of a day and Spike has seen it often, although none have examined it carefully as a prospect for their fleet.

If I'm not supposed to mention it here, please disregard and/or I'll immediately remove the notice. I frankly never thought about mentioning it here until Peggy started this thread.
 
All the gas mileage in the world does you no good if you are squashed. FTR I got rid of my cherry 2003 Miata a couple of years ago....
 
AggieMike88 said:
Has has the instrument cluster been behaving? While no recall, there is a design issue that has created significant demand for my good used ones and rebuilt units.
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On heck yes. Lovely deal there. Recall was mileage limited. Mine didn't misbehave until after 85,000 miles. Not quite sure how they got away with a mileage limit on known bad electronics in the speedometer, as a safety issue, but they did. Once in a while the speedo servo sticks at highway speed. It's fun to do 70MPH at the next stop light. ;)

The fix is to replace all the servos with ones that won't give up the ghost quite so easily. $30 for a "kit" of them on eBay and an afternoon with the soldering iron. Lots of folks scared of that one are paying lots of folks to do it for them for about $100-$150.

While you're in there, you might as well put LED lighting (and current limiting resistors) in place of all the lightbulbs that will burn out. I like white ones, but the modded truck crowd is enamored with blue ones. :)

The only thing the normal electronics geek can't easily fix is the dimming problems of the VFD display. That requires a source of parts that aren't readily available.

Apparently since the Yukon has the optional oil cooler, the Escalade cluster will go in, and add a nice oil temp gauge with no computer reprogramming. I've been tempted just to swap it, but there's some trick to programming the mileage into the cluster and you have to keep paperwork that shows you weren't doing it to defraud the odometer.

Better to have someone else do it, signature wise. Folks don't like seeing an affidavit from the owner saying they promise they didn't roll the odometer back. Haha.

Of course it's not like you couldn't just disconnect the cluster, drive it for two years and then plug it back in. Haha. Silly truck will happily drive around with the cluster removed, which is what most folks do when they ship the cluster off to someone to solder in new servos and LEDs.
 
iflyforfun said:
I've always loved Subaru's, but I've never been able to swallow the crappy milage. That nice and valuable 4 wheel drive comes at a cost. Seems like the best Subaru still won't break 25 mph (except maybe the old Justy with the CVT ... had a friend who had one back in the 90s and it was indestructible and got great milage).
Click to expand...


I was kicking tires the other day and thought I'd try one of the '13 Outbacks. I've driven my folks enough to have a decent set of expectations. The new models, with the 2.5l 4 and a 6-speed manual are advertised at 21/28 and with the CVT are advertised at 24/30 mpg.

They are a taller and longer than they used to be.
 
denverpilot said:
Trying to find the crash test video for the SmartCar, or maybe it was the other tiny one... [Edit: the ForTwo, or whatever?]

Basically the video showed that in an offset head on, they get launched. Backward.
Click to expand...

Here's the vid you were looking for (I think the Smart needs a bigger airbag...):

 
wabower said:
If anyone is interested, my one-owner, one-driver pewter 2001 2WD Suburban LS will be listed soon.
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Add me to the list that report this is a clean truck and will serve its next owner well.
 
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