I drive an old car so I can fly an old airplane.

[fgcason]

I think the Smart needs a bigger airbag...

And about 4,000lbs of steel weights in the front to counter the energy of the oncoming vehicle. There is no way that kind of a direction reversal is good for a human body no matter who says it's safe to do so. And that's assuming the front end didn't collapse and wad up like it did which is bound to some serious grief where the drivers legs are.

 

[denverpilot]

There's also this aspect of driving a truck vs driving a car...

See ya BMW sucka! Enjoy the swim! Heh heh.

 

[RJM62]

Here's the vid you were looking for (I think the Smart needs a bigger airbag...):

I find it kind of difficult to understand that car's popularity, considering that most of the greenies I know are also safety zealots. It's not especially good on gas, quite frankly, and it's a death trap; and yet, it seems the fashionable thing for tree-hugging types.

'Tis of puzzlement.

-Rich

 

[Everskyward]

I've always loved Subaru's, but I've never been able to swallow the crappy milage. That nice and valuable 4 wheel drive comes at a cost. Seems like the best Subaru still won't break 25 mph (except maybe the old Justy with the CVT ... had a friend who had one back in the 90s and it was indestructible and got great milage).

I have a 2012 Forester which gets 28-29 mpg. I think that's pretty good for an AWD. Definitely more than published, too.

 

[LandSickness]

That's funny. Drove my wife's '68 Beetle to the office today.

Original engine (rebuilt twice) is now at 300,000 miles.

44 years old, lifetime cost ... not so much.

Bought a white '68 Beetle with a damaged trunk, deemed "Bug with the broken nose." Best car I ever owned. Finally replaced the damaged trunk with a red one from a salvage yard, renamed "Bug with the bloody nose". I drove that car from '79-'88. Through the extremes of St. Louis Summers with no a/c and Chicago Winters with no floors and only heat from the motor. Cheap to own, simple to maintain. Never had any issues with it, other than the rusted out floor panels, which over its life were replaced with plywood and sheet metal. Sold it while away in college because my dad wanted his garage back.

Recently owned a 2001 Passat that cost me about $1000 in repairs over two months so I got rid of it.

 

[jesse]

BALONEY!​

I treated my convertible better than my airplane! Always garaged, gently driven (mostly), got all its maintenance on schedule. None of that stopped a tie rod from breaking, sending me into a 70 mph spin that ended abruptly on a jersey wall!

If a tie rod broke it wasn't properly maintained. Not saying that is your fault, but if you were having people inspect your front end regularly then they would have caught it, unless they didn't do an adequate job.

The problem with this stuff is that you just don't know what you're getting when you pay a shop to "inspect" things. The only way to know for sure is to do it yourself..and not everyone has the time or skill for that.

 

[wabower]

So all the aircraft parts failures that have occurred are because of poor maintenance and not due to the sudden failure of an undetectable flaw or porr design in the part that broke? Like for example all of the rod ends and ball joints on twin Cessnas? If poor maintenance instead of faulty parts is the problem, why do the AD's require replacement of the parts rather than more inspections?

If a tie rod broke it wasn't properly maintained. Not saying that is your fault, but if you were having people inspect your front end regularly then they would have caught it, unless they didn't do an adequate job.

The problem with this stuff is that you just don't know what you're getting when you pay a shop to "inspect" things. The only way to know for sure is to do it yourself..and not everyone has the time or skill for that.

 

[Dr. O]

Auntie, my best recommendation is a 3/4 ton pickup.
Yeah, like your husband I drive slow in the right lane.
Sometimes it is 60 mph in the right lane of I-75 (55 is a bit slow for a 1400 mile drive)
Sometimes it is only 20mph when I am pulling grain wagons (I weigh in at 52,000 pounds going across the scales at the grain terminal)
Sometimes it is only 12 mph when it is the combine going down the road - 14 feet wide and 14 feet high with drive tires as tall as you are.
But nobody, and I mean nobody cuts me off - other than an active suicide attempt and luckily that has not happened.

Now, I also have a 2001 Saturn that I dearly love - it is peppy and gets great mileage.
I get cut off, the horn, the finger, etc. The difference is startling.

So, from experience his best bet is 7 or 8 thousand pounds of Detroit steel with a BIG trailer ball sticking out of the back and a cow catcher on the front - and a rifle rack in the rear window even if empty.
The rest of his life he will still get passed, but he won't get cut off.

 

[rottydaddy]

Hubby might start to drive a wee bit faster as to not make an obstacle of himself. Sorry to be critical, but that's the first thing you do on a bike, when any collision means serious pain and suffering.

Yeah, but haven't you been cut off like that (within inches) when going a wee bit, or a lot bit, faster? I have, particularly when some idiot is afraid they'll miss their exit, but won't just slow down to fall behind me. What's stunningly stupid about this accident is that with Peggy's husband doing 55, the other driver could have passed him easily with plenty of room. It was simply an act of aggression, a "punishment". This chucklehead is probably one of those who, when encountering a car in the fast lane, will ride right up on their bumper in an attempt to make them go faster. The "slow" car could be doing 75, doesn't matter. Rather than pass on the right, or maybe tap high beams and horn and see if maybe they'll yield to the right, these drivers use their vehicle to threaten others, often with bad results.

Speaking of which, of course the driver behind was following way closer than necessary... it is amazing how many people think that being three feet behind another car will get you where you're going sooner, regardless of how slow you're both going.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Hello -
Thanks for all the replies.

Took Hubby in for a checkup just in case. So, he'll be on Ibuprophin for the rest of the week and he is supposed to do ice and heat, which he won't do.

We sold the car to a junk dealer for $225 and after paying for the tow and overnight storage, came away with all the stuff that was in the trunk, the license plates, and $30.

We are really looking for the gas mileage. We laughed over the police cruiser look-alike ideas. Sounds great, but doesn't get the MPG we want. We'll be looking into all those Japanese models suggested on Craigs list. Love the older green Dodge. Thanks for doing all that leg-work for us. For heavy loads, we have Thunder Truck, with a 10-foot box that we have been using to move our stuff to Oklahoma, so we don't need a pickup. Besides a pickup with good MPG won't carry 4 passengers (legally). BTW for the slalom drivers, posted state speed limit is 55.

Now we have snow. Took 3 hours to do the 15-minute drive home after MD visit.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Yeah, but haven't you been cut off like that (within inches) when going a wee bit, or a lot bit, faster? I have, particularly when some idiot is afraid they'll miss their exit, but won't just slow down to fall behind me. What's stunningly stupid about this accident is that with Peggy's husband doing 55, the other driver could have passed him easily with plenty of room. It was simply an act of aggression, a "punishment". This chucklehead is probably one of those who, when encountering a car in the fast lane, will ride right up on their bumper in an attempt to make them go faster. The "slow" car could be doing 75, doesn't matter. Rather than pass on the right, or maybe tap high beams and horn and see if maybe they'll yield to the right, these drivers use their vehicle to threaten others, often with bad results.

Speaking of which, of course the driver behind was following way closer than necessary... it is amazing how many people think that being three feet behind another car will get you where you're going sooner, regardless of how slow you're both going.

The driver of the car that hit Hubby got out, surveyed the damage to his vehicle, then drove off without a glance toward the old man in the car he hit or the woman in the second car that ran head-on into him.

 

[steingar]

All the gas mileage in the world does you no good if you are squashed. FTR I got rid of my cherry 2003 Miata a couple of years ago....

The best way to avoid being squashed is to get out of the way, something at which a cherry 2003 Miata excels. It does if you know how to drive, that is.

 

[JHW]

The best way to avoid being squashed is to get out of the way, something at which a cherry 2003 Miata excels. It does if you know how to drive, that is.

yeah right. My wife's passat got hit from behind at 50mph. She was stopped at a red light in the middle lane. Cars in front and on each side of her. Even if she'd seen it coming in the mirror, how was she going to avoid that in a miata? Actually she would have avoided cleaning up the mess in a miata, because she'd be dead.

 

[JHW]

I find it kind of difficult to understand that car's popularity, considering that most of the greenies I know are also safety zealots. It's not especially good on gas, quite frankly, and it's a death trap; and yet, it seems the fashionable thing for tree-hugging types.

'Tis of puzzlement.

-Rich

It seems to me that it's only popular with people living in places where parking and maneuverability are a priority. As you mention, none of these miniature cars get highway fuel economy in proportion to their size because the aerodynamics are so poor.

 

[DaleB]

The driver of the car that hit Hubby got out, surveyed the damage to his vehicle, then drove off without a glance toward the old man in the car he hit or the woman in the second car that ran head-on into him.

Where I come from, we call that "leaving the scene of a personal injury accident", and it's a felony. I hope someone got his license plate and called the cops.

 

[wabower]

Just keep your foot on the accelerator and tap the brakes lightly with your other foot, then watch them swerve all over the road trying to get it shut down.

Yeah, but haven't you been cut off like that (within inches) when going a wee bit, or a lot bit, faster? I have, particularly when some idiot is afraid they'll miss their exit, but won't just slow down to fall behind me. What's stunningly stupid about this accident is that with Peggy's husband doing 55, the other driver could have passed him easily with plenty of room. It was simply an act of aggression, a "punishment". This chucklehead is probably one of those who, when encountering a car in the fast lane, will ride right up on their bumper in an attempt to make them go faster. The "slow" car could be doing 75, doesn't matter. Rather than pass on the right, or maybe tap high beams and horn and see if maybe they'll yield to the right, these drivers use their vehicle to threaten others, often with bad results.

Speaking of which, of course the driver behind was following way closer than necessary... it is amazing how many people think that being three feet behind another car will get you where you're going sooner, regardless of how slow you're both going.

 

[AggieMike88]

I can make someone a real nice deal on a SLK320. Just got it at the auctions today.

 

[Matthew]

I can make someone a real nice deal on a SLK320. Just got it at the auctions today.

How many cupholders?

 

[SCCutler]

It seems to me that it's only popular with people living in places where parking and maneuverability are a priority. As you mention, none of these miniature cars get highway fuel economy in proportion to their size because the aerodynamics are so poor.

I see all kinds of people around here driving them, and they are utterly inappropriate For use here. Slow, poor handling (in grown-up traffic), hard to see. They are also costly and the mileage is no better than more substantial cars, like Corolla, Mazda 3, Civic, etc. IMHO, they are making a statement, and that statement is, "I am a silly person."

From my perspective, the Smart is appropriate for very dense urban areas, but if I lived in such a place (San Francisco, for example), I'd just subscribe to one of the innovative car-share services and save the expense and complication of Ownership.

Just keep your foot on the accelerator and tap the brakes lightly with your other foot, then watch them swerve all over the road trying to get it shut down.

Next time we have lunch or something, remind me To tell you a story about this practice...

I can make someone a real nice deal on a SLK320. Just got it at the auctions today.

I see it has extra large in the rear fenders...

 

[AggieMike88]

I see it has extra large in the rear fenders...

If someone purchases it before the end of next week, I won't even charge for that.

 

[steingar]

yeah right. My wife's passat got hit from behind at 50mph. She was stopped at a red light in the middle lane. Cars in front and on each side of her. Even if she'd seen it coming in the mirror, how was she going to avoid that in a miata? Actually she would have avoided cleaning up the mess in a miata, because she'd be dead.

If she survived in a Passat she'd had survived in a Miata. On a bike, not so much, which is why I keep my eyes on the rearview mirrors, or better yet don't stop at all...

 

[bbchien]

Prof. W:

Well, I sold out of the Miata after I got rear ended by a local Attorney's daughter while slowed in a merging lane. She was talking on the cell. I saw her coming and there was no averting that one. I'm just NOT THAT GOOD.

The radiator of the Suburban was inches from the back of my head and it was hissing. That was enough for me (rode up over the trunk. Amazingly didn't bend the trunk floor!). Attorney's insurance company ("Safe Auto") didn't respond to inquiries for eleven days. He didn't respond. I finally wrote him a letter and said, "I'm the town Pain Guy and my neck hurts...". That got a response.

Never understimate the value of MASS.

My wife, however vetoed the Dodge Ram. That WAS a little overreaction. I ended up in a Ford 500.

 

[Henning]

That's fine. Forgive me if I don't feel like riding inside the ping long ball during the wreck.

I'm the opposite lol, I can't wait until they get to end of life and I can crash test some.

 

[Henning]

And about 4,000lbs of steel weights in the front to counter the energy of the oncoming vehicle. There is no way that kind of a direction reversal is good for a human body no matter who says it's safe to do so. And that's assuming the front end didn't collapse and wad up like it did which is bound to some serious grief where the drivers legs are.

You don't understand this structure, it's very compressive with bumper zones outside the passenger compartment, you can take 50G accelerations, it rebounds with less, but you have to keep the weight down. Besides, most cars don't weigh 4000lbs anymore.

 

[Henning]

How many cupholders?

Zero.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

You don't understand this structure, it's very compressive with bumper zones outside the passenger compartment, you can take 50G accelerations, it rebounds with less, but you have to keep the weight down. Besides, most cars don't weigh 4000lbs anymore.

Acceleration towards the rear bumper is not as survivable as towards the front bumper when utilizing "idealized seat and restraint systems" ... then take into account additional injuries from the seat belt, steering wheel, and windshield.

50G is already in the injury zone for very short duration pulses, and severe injury at 100 ms. Throw in a set of ruptured organs and broken ribs from the belt and perhaps a spinal cord injury from the unrestrained head....

I personally am not fond of the "ping pong" theory. I've watched too many crash sled tests first hand.

ftp://ftp.rta.nato.int/PubFullText/RTO/EN/RTO-EN-HFM-113/EN-HFM-113-06.pdf

 

[denverpilot]

Just keep your foot on the accelerator and tap the brakes lightly with your other foot, then watch them swerve all over the road trying to get it shut down.

I will admit to doing that one. Fun to watch in the mirror.

 

[denverpilot]

If she survived in a Passat she'd had survived in a Miata. On a bike, not so much, which is why I keep my eyes on the rearview mirrors, or better yet don't stop at all...

I don't want to just barely survive. I want to get out as if nothing happened and laugh at the dumbass who hit my truck.

 

[JHW]

I will admit to doing that one. Fun to watch in the mirror.

even better, in detroit or similar, just aim for one of the foot-deep p[otholes and swerve at the last minute. Watch the damage in your rear-view mirror.

 

[fgcason]

You don't understand this structure, it's very compressive with bumper zones outside the passenger compartment, you can take 50G accelerations, it rebounds with less, but you have to keep the weight down. Besides, most cars don't weigh 4000lbs anymore.

So what you're saying is that going from say 50mph forward to 20mph backward in about 5 feet of forward travel is a good thing to do in a crash? That's the equivalent of running into a bridge piling that doesn't give at all at 70mph.

The 4000lbs is to counter the mass of the other vehicle assuming the other vehicle is a lightweight something and not a SUV. A SUV will just roll right over it since the SUV bumpers are about the height of the head of the driver in one of those things.

The pingpong ball concept is cute to tell people who have no clue about physics however it's not a valid survival tactic in a head to head collision with a vehicle that outmasses you by at least 2:1 and likely 3:1 or 4:1.

 

[steingar]

Prof. W:

Well, I sold out of the Miata after I got rear ended by a local Attorney's daughter while slowed in a merging lane. She was talking on the cell. I saw her coming and there was no averting that one. I'm just NOT THAT GOOD.

The radiator of the Suburban was inches from the back of my head and it was hissing. That was enough for me (rode up over the trunk. Amazingly didn't bend the trunk floor!). Attorney's insurance company ("Safe Auto") didn't respond to inquiries for eleven days. He didn't respond. I finally wrote him a letter and said, "I'm the town Pain Guy and my neck hurts...". That got a response.

Never understimate the value of MASS.

My wife, however vetoed the Dodge Ram. That WAS a little overreaction. I ended up in a Ford 500.

Sorry Bruce, I wouldn't veto the car I want for fear of a rear-end collision. I must assume that I am that good, since I've been riding motorcycles since I was a skinny young bald guy, and I'm still here and in one piece.

I will add that the radiator was inches from your head and not imbedded in it. Me, I always watch the mirrors and have an escape plan in place before I stop. Just good situational awareness. As a biker you MUST have it, though it comes in handy with cars too.

Or course, with all this tough talk I'm driving a beat to death Corrola with an automatic transmission. I miss my convertible something fierce, though.

 

[JHW]

Sorry Bruce, I wouldn't veto the car I want for fear of a rear-end collision. I must assume that I am that good, since I've been riding motorcycles since I was a skinny young bald guy, and I'm still here and in one piece.

I will add that the radiator was inches from your head and not imbedded in it. Me, I always watch the mirrors and have an escape plan in place before I stop. Just good situational awareness. As a biker you MUST have it, though it comes in handy with cars too.

Or course, with all this tough talk I'm driving a beat to death Corrola with an automatic transmission. I miss my convertible something fierce, though.

perhaps you should take the seatbelts and airbags out of your car since you've elected to have no accidents

 

[steingar]

perhaps you should take the seatbelts and airbags out of your car since you've elected to have no accidents

No, I just use situational awareness in a car like most of you would in an aircraft. It seems to work, since I've never been in a bad motorcycle crash (been in a couple dumb low speed ones) and my first ever car crash a was due to mechanical malfunction. And I've avoided some very dangerous situations.

I honestly didn't mean to toot my horn, I never thought of myself as all that good a rider or driver. I just think it silly to not buy a car because you're worried someone might hit your backside. Might be the extra oomph and maneuverability could keep you out of a crash. Has for me more times than I can count.

 

[Henning]

So what you're saying is that going from say 50mph forward to 20mph backward in about 5 feet of forward travel is a good thing to do in a crash? That's the equivalent of running into a bridge piling that doesn't give at all at 70mph.

The 4000lbs is to counter the mass of the other vehicle assuming the other vehicle is a lightweight something and not a SUV. A SUV will just roll right over it since the SUV bumpers are about the height of the head of the driver in one of those things.

The pingpong ball concept is cute to tell people who have no clue about physics however it's not a valid survival tactic in a head to head collision with a vehicle that outmasses you by at least 2:1 and likely 3:1 or 4:1.

The option when being creamed by a semi on the Autobahn is dying. That's the whole reason the SMART was developed is as proof of concept that lighter is safer when in high adverse energy situations. Yeah, you take a hell of a bounce, but nothing intrudes until the very last. I mean it's not failure proof, nothing is, but in the small car vs large truck or concrete barrier, the bounce gives a much larger margin of prefatality energy which, and here is the important part has much lower rate of intrusion type injuries to the lower legs. The real key to crashing one is to have at least some angle of incidence and not run square. You want to have definite angle to release.

 

[wabower]

And only lose engines in light twins at altitude so the drift-down theory can work to save you. Don't ever lose one after liftoff when it's going in the dirt like all the singles. Sheesh.

The option when being creamed by a semi on the Autobahn is dying. That's the whole reason the SMART was developed is as proof of concept that lighter is safer when in high adverse energy situations. Yeah, you take a hell of a bounce, but nothing intrudes until the very last. I mean it's not failure proof, nothing is, but in the small car vs large truck or concrete barrier, the bounce gives a much larger margin of prefatality energy which, and here is the important part has much lower rate of intrusion type injuries to the lower legs. The real key to crashing one is to have at least some angle of incidence and not run square. You want to have definite angle to release.

 

[Henning]

My plane will climb at 200fpm at 5000' at blue line, started about 750fpm at 500' where I secured it out over the water northbound for the test. That's because my typical flying weight is well below gross, and my panel bought me 200lbs of that performance, let's me keep the tanks full, be loaded and still have only taken up less than 2/3rds of my useful load.

Understand your limitations, work to minimize them, train to deal with them, and operate in accordance of them.

 

[jesse]

So all the aircraft parts failures that have occurred are because of poor maintenance and not due to the sudden failure of an undetectable flaw or porr design in the part that broke? Like for example all of the rod ends and ball joints on twin Cessnas? If poor maintenance instead of faulty parts is the problem, why do the AD's require replacement of the parts rather than more inspections?

If the tierod issue was so common on his car there would be a recall for it.

Sure there's a small chance in hell that it was undetectable but it's quite unlikely. If I had to bet money on it -- I'd bet it would have been visually obvious that the failure was coming thousands of miles in advance or more. This isn't some completely covered assembly that the eye can't easily examine.

I've had things fail on vehicles too that I should have caught. It happens. But one should recognize the reality which is that it could have likely been prevented instead of just saying that's the way it is.

I examine the front-end and steering components every 5,000 miles on my vehicles. I've replaced things I wasn't comfortable with. When I purchased my F150 the entire link to the sway bar on one side was missing. The shop that "inspected" it gave me a $1500 estimate worth of things they wanted to fix -- the most obvious being the missing sway bar link that they didn't notice and wasn't on the list.

 

[wabower]

Agreed that sudden unexplained breakage is uncommon, but have been involved in enough "dang, we've never seen that before" failures, like the axle on my travel trailer that just broke in half as we were pulling out of the campground at OSH, to know that the cause isn't always lack of maintenance.

If the tierod issue was so common on his car there would be a recall for it.

Sure there's a small chance in hell that it was undetectable but it's quite unlikely. If I had to bet money on it -- I'd bet it would have been visually obvious that the failure was coming thousands of miles in advance or more. This isn't some completely covered assembly that the eye can't easily examine.

I've had things fail on vehicles too that I should have caught. It happens. But one should recognize the reality which is that it could have likely been prevented instead of just saying that's the way it is.

I examine the front-end and steering components every 5,000 miles on my vehicles. I've replaced things I wasn't comfortable with. When I purchased my F150 the entire link to the sway bar on one side was missing. The shop that "inspected" it gave me a $1500 estimate worth of things they wanted to fix -- the most obvious being the missing sway bar link that they didn't notice and wasn't on the list.

 

[ChrisK]

Knock 10% off the price for a lesser brand and pickup a Nissan Altima. Very good car reliability info here: http://www.truedelta.com/ . I am not affiliated with the site. I just like very open approach to how their stats are calculated.

I have over 60k miles on my Altima, and my mechanic has nothing but nice things to say about how it is holding up.

 

[Ghery]

Subaru has been pretty good quality since about 1990. Before that, they were pure crap.

A bit older than that, but I had a 1974, and the engine had to be rebuilt every 50,000 miles when the head gaskets failed.

If pickup truck isn't good, 76 Coupe DeVille. That'll destroy anything it hits, too.

$8995 in Ohio. Here ya go...

http://classiccars.com/listing-366776/1976-cadillac-coupe-deville-for-sale-in-eastlake-ohio-us.html

It's like riding around on a sofa. Hahaha.

My 1954 Buick Special was like that. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, argued with it in commute traffic when I worked at Mare Island Naval Shipyard. They saw that tank coming and got out of the way.

I find it kind of difficult to understand that car's popularity, considering that most of the greenies I know are also safety zealots. It's not especially good on gas, quite frankly, and it's a death trap; and yet, it seems the fashionable thing for tree-hugging types.

'Tis of puzzlement.

-Rich

You met my neighbor, I see.

The driver of the car that hit Hubby got out, surveyed the damage to his vehicle, then drove off without a glance toward the old man in the car he hit or the woman in the second car that ran head-on into him.

Where I come from, we call that "leaving the scene of a personal injury accident", and it's a felony. I hope someone got his license plate and called the cops.

My thought, too. I hope somebody got that idiot's number.

Mass and well built. That's important. We gave our daughter a used 1995 Jeep Wrangler when she graduated from college. Just over a week after coming home she slowed down for traffic and got rear ended by a guy in a Chevy pickup who wasn't paying enough attention. Caved in the sheet metal in the back of the Jeep, spraying broken glass from the rear window of the hard top all over the place. Cost his insurance company a few thousand to fix. She drove home from the accident site. His truck? Needed a tow truck to put it back on its wheels. He wound up on his side somehow. Jeep 1, Chevy pickup 0.

Some accidents you just can survive, however. I remember 30+ years ago driving past the scene where 1 semi had tried to rear-end another semi. The full sized Cadillac in between was shorter than my Subaru. Engine in the front seat. The ambulance was in no hurry leaving the scene.