How fast on the ILS..?

dans2992

dans2992

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Dans2992
Ok, just curious on this. Quick survey:

1. What aircraft do you fly?
2. What speed do you like to fly the ILS at?
3. What speed do you fly it when asked for "max forward speed" by ATC? What configuration do you use? When do you slow?
 
dans2992 said:
1. What aircraft do you fly?
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Airbus 319/320

dans2992 said:
2. What speed do you like to fly the ILS at?
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Vapp, depends upon weight, runs from 120knots to 145 knots

dans2992 said:
3. What speed do you fly it when asked for "max forward speed" by ATC? What configuration do you use? When do you slow?
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Typically 170 knots to the marker, flaps config 3 and gear down. Crossing the marker flaps full and decel to Vapp.
 
dans2992 said:
Ok, just curious on this. Quick survey:

1. What aircraft do you fly?
2. What speed do you like to fly the ILS at?
3. What speed do you fly it when asked for "max forward speed" by ATC? What configuration do you use? When do you slow?
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PC12

120kts with 15 flaps

Max 150kts

Configure flaps, lights, gear etc 3 from the FAF or 1 dot below glide slope
 
However fast is appropriate for the airplane and the scenario. Sometimes that's 60 knots and sometimes that's 170 knots. I quit thinking in "speed" or "distance" a long time ago as that's irrelevant when you jump between types constantly with drastically different performance.

I think in "minutes" and "seconds" for all the flying I do. Of course you have to factor in the aircraft's ability to slow down.
 
Like they said, it depends on what you're flying and the circumstances. What I do not do is allow a controller's convenience to push me into flying faster on approach than I feel is safe and appropriate for the aircraft I'm flying and the circumstances (including weather, airport, etc) under which I'm operating.
 
1. Velocity 173 / BH407

2. 100 / 100

3. 120 (Vle) / 120. Depends on length of runway but usually about 2 miles out.
 
Navion. Once on the glide slope the gear is down and I have to be below 87 knots. I shoot to keep it between 78 and 87 knots (that's 90-100 MPH, it's an old plane).

If I'm going somewhere where I need to keep the speed up, I'll fly the approach faster (closer to 120 knots, it doesn't take much to slow the Navion down) BEOFRE the FAF/GS intercept.

VFR if they ask me to keep my speed up I'll maintain full cruise to short final. Close the throttle, haul back on the yoke, drop full flaps and gear, and descend near vertical. Confuses the hell out of the controllers at times.
 
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This is an entirely different question and set of circumstances for "bug smasher" going into Podunk and an air carrier jet going into ORD, DFW, LAX, SFO, ATL, LGA, etc.

Without a qualifier to that effect this all sort of loses meaning.
 
GV
Usually around 122-125
180 to the OM, full flaps at the OM and slow to Vapp.
 
Archer trimmed for 80 is what I always look for. If I have the field, I'll slowly bring it back for 70 over the fence and try for 65 on the refrigerators.
 
flyingron said:
Navion. Once on the glide slope the gear is down and I have to be below 87 knots. I shoot to keep it between 78 and 87 knots (that's 90-100 MPH, it's an old plane).



If I'm going somewhere where I need to keep the speed up, I'll fly the approach faster (closer to 120 knots, it doesn't take much to slow the Navion down) BEOFRE the FAF/GS intercept.



VFR if they ask me to keep my speed up I'll maintain full cruise to short final. Close the throttle, haul back on the yoke, drop full flaps and gear, and descend near vertical. Confuses the hell out of the controllers at times.
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So you actually climb on short final to slow down?
 
dans2992 said:
Ok, just curious on this. Quick survey:

1. What aircraft do you fly?
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777


2. What speed do you like to fly the ILS at?
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170-190 while heading down hill on the glideslope, depending on the headwind or tailwind. Flaps 20, gear up, spoilers stowed.


3. What speed do you fly it when asked for "max forward speed" by ATC?
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If level and intercepting the glide at or just outside the marker, 250kts until about 4 miles from the marker isn't a problem, depending the altitude of the marker. 200 on the glide is pushing it. It's hard to keep slow down from that speed and be configured at 1000 agl.

What configuration do you use? When do you slow?
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Flaps 20 (a tad more than 1/2 flaps basically), gear up. Usually start configuring/slowing around 1800 above the touchdown zone elevation. When configuring, drop the gear, flaps 25 when the gear is down, flaps 30 under 170kts, slowing to target speed, which is around 130-140kts depending on weight.

Configured by 1000' agl.
 
dans2992 said:
So you actually climb on short final to slow down?
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It happens very quickly, but I do pop up may be 50 feet however remember it's all about GLIDEPATH not instantenous altitude.
 
If the throttle back and the yoke back are coordinated and timely, there doesn't need to be a change in glideslope descent.
 
Comanche

150mph until FAF, then the gear comes down, then between there and the top the white arc until I break out. Yeah, I know it's not "the FAA way", but once the gear is out, it's easy to slow down and get the flaps out.

150mph because that's my max gear speed.
 
310.

Normally about 130 MPH with gear and 15 degrees flaps.

Max forward I'll usually go 160 MPH because that's gear/full flap speed, but I have shot it at 170-180 MPH no sweat. Couple miles out put on the brakes.
 
1. What aircraft do you fly?

Lancair 360

2. What speed do you like to fly the ILS at?

Depending on mood and weather, somewhere between 140-200 until 1-2 miles prior to FAF, then slow to 125 for gear extension. I operate a bit like Jesse, tending to be time-based rather than speed based, except for the 125 number which is my incredibly annoying gear limit.

3. What speed do you fly it when asked for "max forward speed" by ATC? What configuration do you use? When do you slow?

They don't ask for best forward speed if they already see you doing 180+. I'll offer 180 or better until the gate.

NY approach once asked me for best forward speed on a visual into JFK before sending me to tower. I saw the RJ they had me following 5 miles ahead so I accelerated to 220kias (WOT, full rich, shallow descent), tower then said, "you've got 70kts on the RJ, you can reduce to final approach speed" :) Was good to turn the tables for single engine pistons just once.

I prefer to fly approaches as fast as possible for two reasons:
1) minimize time spent in high workload environment. Flying fast is not really harder than flowing slow. It just takes less time.

2) if you can mimic a jet (or slightly outrun them on final), the compression issue isn't as bad when you slow to 80kts on short final. Much easier flying into DFW, TEB, MSP, JFK, PHL, and ATL if you go fast.
 
coma24 said:
Much easier flying into DFW, TEB, MSP, JFK, PHL, and ATL if you go fast.
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Why on earth would you want to fly into one of those cluster farks?

I fly a turbine for work and I try to avoid those places when I can.

Give me a uncontrolled 3000k strip over a class B chit show anyday :yesnod:
 
1. Cessna TR182
2. 125 to 130 KIAS until I'm one dot below GS, then CCGUMPS (basically, gear down & 10* flaps)
100 KIAS down the GS
3. See #2.
 
dans2992 said:
Ok, just curious on this. Quick survey:

1. What aircraft do you fly? C-177RG
2. What speed do you like to fly the ILS at? ~100 kts, give or take
3. What speed do you fly it when asked for "max forward speed" by ATC? ~115 kts, and definitely no faster than 120 kts with the gear down. What configuration do you use? Gear down, 10* flaps. When do you slow? About 1-2 miles out.
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.....
 
1) Maule MXT-7 & Piper Arrow
2) 75kts and 90kts respectfully
3) What ever full power gives me in the Maule. So about 100 or 120 if I'm in a descent. In the Arrow I'll do 129 until FAF at which point I'll dump the gear.

I've done 150 in the Arrow until final with the gear up. ATC asked for best forward because of an emergency F-16 behind me.
 
dans2992 said:
Ok, just curious on this. Quick survey:

1. What aircraft do you fly?
2. What speed do you like to fly the ILS at?
3. What speed do you fly it when asked for "max forward speed" by ATC? What configuration do you use? When do you slow?
Click to expand...

1. DC-10

2. Depends on the weight, but the minimum speed given the weight for my landing configuration. Usually 35 degrees of flaps and slats extended. Usually comes out to 140-150 knots.

3. Never been asked that on final but leading up to it I will just delay configuring and be mindful of my gear and flap speeds. We are required to be in the landing configuration by glide slope intercept. Usually start slowing from 250 when I am on a long base leg.
 
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One point I should make about this issue. My experience giving IR training for the last eight years and change is that female trainees are far less driven to fly ILS's in light planes at the speed of stink than male trainees. Draw your own conclusions.

Also, while I've heard a lot of folks say you really need to fly your ILS's in a 172 at 130 KIAS or the like because that's what you'll have to do at O'Hare or Hartsfield, nobody I've ever heard say that has ever actually flown an ILS into O'Hare or Hartsfield in a 172, and my experience flying Aztecs into both airports is that there is no such "need" -- I was easily able to arrange to fly the approach within the gear and flap limit speeds.
 
Ron Levy said:
One point I should make about this issue. My experience giving IR training for the last eight years and change is that female trainees are far less driven to fly ILS's in light planes at the speed of stink than male trainees. Draw your own conclusions.
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It's easier to put makeup on while going slower?
 
I generally slow to ~90 KIAS somewhere outside the FAF, and finish at that speed.

When requested (once with DPE), I raised flaps and accelerated to ~130 mph to give the Lear behind me some breathing room, slowed back down and had flaps and gear out for the last two miles. Gear speed is 120 mph in my Mooney.
 
Ron Levy said:
Also, while I've heard a lot of folks say you really need to fly your ILS's in a 172 at 130 KIAS or the like because that's what you'll have to do at O'Hare or Hartsfield, nobody I've ever heard say that has ever actually flown an ILS into O'Hare or Hartsfield in a 172, and my experience flying Aztecs into both airports is that there is no such "need" -- I was easily able to arrange to fly the approach within the gear and flap limit speeds.
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Fastest I've ever heard of was an airline captain commuting into DCA with his Skyhawk. He practiced to see how fast he could reasonably dump speed and found out he could come in at 105-110KIAS, chop throttle and dump the flaps at the start of the roundout, and land normally in time to still use the high-speed turnoff.

He did that 2x/week on one approach to one airport that he flew out of for revenue service as well. YMMV.
 
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1. What aircraft do you fly?
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Varies - Arrow, 172, T182T, PC-12.
2. What speed do you like to fly the ILS at?
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Whatevs.
3. What speed do you fly it when asked for "max forward speed" by ATC? What configuration do you use? When do you slow?
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On precision approaches, I'll configure down the approach and use the max that I can depending on the limitations.
On non-precision approaches, I'll configure most of the way (def. gear, a notch or two of flaps) before the FAF.
 
Rex Kramer said:
777




170-190 while heading down hill on the glideslope, depending on the headwind or tailwind. Flaps 20, gear up, spoilers stowed.




If level and intercepting the glide at or just outside the marker, 250kts until about 4 miles from the marker isn't a problem, depending the altitude of the marker. 200 on the glide is pushing it. It's hard to keep slow down from that speed and be configured at 1000 agl.



Flaps 20 (a tad more than 1/2 flaps basically), gear up. Usually start configuring/slowing around 1800 above the touchdown zone elevation. When configuring, drop the gear, flaps 25 when the gear is down, flaps 30 under 170kts, slowing to target speed, which is around 130-140kts depending on weight.

Configured by 1000' agl.
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The whole time while reading this I'm thinking what would differ in your answer if the ILS was at mins.
 
Ron Levy said:
Also, while I've heard a lot of folks say you really need to fly your ILS's in a 172 at 130 KIAS or the like because that's what you'll have to do at O'Hare or Hartsfield, nobody I've ever heard say that has ever actually flown an ILS into O'Hare or Hartsfield in a 172, and my experience flying Aztecs into both airports is that there is no such "need" -- I was easily able to arrange to fly the approach within the gear and flap limit speeds.
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Fine, what about CYYT? Was asked for best forward speed on an ILS in the 310 down to 400. Of course up there that's good VFR.
 
Jaybird180 said:
The whole time while reading this I'm thinking what would differ in your answer if the ILS was at mins.
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In the book or on the line? If it's on the line, then what I wrote is regardless of the mins.. :)
 
It is about 1NM from my house to the runways at IAD. There's good reason for me to fly in there at times. The nearest "reliever" is over 30 minutes away and frankly, ATC has about as much problem getting you into the ILS there as in on one of the THREE they usually have going at IAD. Some places have convenient relievers some don't. There are many places however like BOS and DFW where the reliever is almost certainly better placed than the primary (Give me OWD or BVY or FTW or DAL over the primary any day).


TEB is not in the class B just tucked underneath it. Been in there as well.
 
Ron Levy said:
Also, while I've heard a lot of folks say you really need to fly your ILS's in a 172 at 130 KIAS or the like because that's what you'll have to do at O'Hare or Hartsfield, nobody I've ever heard say that has ever actually flown an ILS into O'Hare or Hartsfield in a 172, and my experience flying Aztecs into both airports is that there is no such "need" -- I was easily able to arrange to fly the approach within the gear and flap limit speeds.
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I don't fly a 172, but I'm guessing I was included in that reference. Flew into TEB and JFK in low IFR and on both occasions it was made clear that the faster I went, the better. There was an A380 behind me at JFK, I'm really not kidding. When I offered 180 to the marker, the controller was ecstatic.

At TEB, had I not offered that speed, I would've been dropped further back in the sequence. I'm sure of that.

At ATL, I was following an RJ, and there was some kinda airliner behind me with a 160kt speed restriction. I was on about a 1-2 mile final when he checked in not very far behind me.

At MSP, it really wasn't busy, didn't matter. At PHL, there was nobody behind me for the GA runway, didn't matter. At DFW, pretty much the same deal.

There are times when it matters, though. Now, if show up in the sector doing 120kts, they know they can't ask for miracles...but if you're moving along fairly swiftly when they first starting working you, good things can happen if you offer to keep that speed on the approach.

Oh, and I still maintain it's not really harder to fly an approach fast than it is to fly it slow. The whole thing is over a lot quicker. The only caveat is that you need to be able to slow down at some point, or life gets tricky, obviously.

As a test, I once flew an ILS approach in IMC at 200kias all the way down, went missed, then came back and did it normally (I was shooting approaches, so I was planning on going missed anyway). The workload of the 200kias approach wasn't particularly significant. Granted, I didn't have to slow down, so there was nothing to do, but even so...fast isn't scary.
 
The one negative about coming in fast is you have to get slowed down to land and that will eat up runway. If the other end of the runway is in fog or the runway is short then you may have a problem. Also, consider if there is a tailwind. Now you are really going to eat up runway.
 
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