Here is potentially why GA is doomed

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MadseasoN said:
Funny you say that. My kids use a capture device to record their games then they post them on YouTube.

Kids really do sit and watch videos of people playing video games. My head explodes ....
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Yes, they really do. Back around 2011-2014 when I was in High School, Call of Duty on the Xbox was the 'Thing. During the summer we'd play online for hours on end. A few 'pro gamers' who had large followings on YouTube posted their gameplays online and got millions of hits. Good times we had back then, when stress didn't exist.
 
MadseasoN said:
Funny you say that. My kids use a capture device to record their games then they post them on YouTube.

Kids really do sit and watch videos of people playing video games. My head explodes ....
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This blew my mind too when I saw it. I saw my brother's boy playing a game. I asked him what he was playing; he said he wasn't playing, "just watching". I noticed throughout the weekend he spent hours just watching other kids play! I could not believe that is entertaining.
 
StevieTimes said:
This blew my mind too when I saw it. I saw my brother's boy playing a game. I asked him what he was playing; he said he wasn't playing, "just watching". I noticed throughout the weekend he spent hours just watching other kids play! I could not believe that is entertaining.
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Ha. Funny the things we do/did as young people that older generations don’t understand. Between the years of ‘11-‘14, I was ‘that kid’. Don’t ask me why it was so entertaining, but it certainly was.
 
StevieTimes said:
This blew my mind too when I saw it. I saw my brother's boy playing a game. I asked him what he was playing; he said he wasn't playing, "just watching". I noticed throughout the weekend he spent hours just watching other kids play! I could not believe that is entertaining.
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My initial reaction too.

But then, is it faster paced than watching baseball? Or golf? ;)
 
MadseasoN said:
Kids really do sit and watch videos of people playing video games. My head explodes ....
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Well, if you think about it, is it really that different from watching a football game or baseball game? You are watching someone participating at a very high level in an activity that you may or may not be able to do.
 
Who cares whether or not some group of people doesn’t like a hobby you are fond of? 40 years from now the kids who love to play video games will complain about their kids liking something else.

I can remember feeding quarters into the Donkey Kong machine years ago when I was young. I would consider that a waste of money now, even though I have more of it.
 
UngaWunga said:
Golf is fun if you're drunk and driving a golf cart through the woods..
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mscard88 said:
Thought that was how it's done. ;)
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The wife likes to golf, I find it a slow and boring game, but she likes me to come along. I drive the cart and drink beers, she golfs. At the end of the 18 she pours me into the passenger seat of the car and drives me home. Works for us!
 
Half Fast said:
Yes, there are lots of nice small bikes, but it's nothing like the early 70s. Most minibikes then were frame type, with lawnmower engines, centrifugal clutches, and a rear scrub brake. Pretty inexpensive. Every department store and hardware store sold them. JC Penney and Sears both had several models in their Christmas catalogs every year. Kits were available so you could build your own.

Many of the kids I grew up with had one. They were much more common than today.

My dad and I built mine from a junkyard frame and a motor harvested from a commercial paint shaker.
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Ah, 70's flashback time.

You left out the local Obies chasing after minibike riders and "confiscating" the non-street-legal machines.
 
Everskyward said:
Who cares whether or not some group of people doesn’t like a hobby you are fond of? 40 years from now the kids who love to play video games will complain about their kids liking something else.

I can remember feeding quarters into the Donkey Kong machine years ago when I was young. I would consider that a waste of money now, even though I have more of it.
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Donkey King rules! And Frogger, those were my favs when they came out, early 80s? And I started with Pong! See, old farts played 'em too!
 
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Bill Jennings said:
The wife likes to golf, I find it a slow and boring game, but she likes me to come along. I drive the cart and drink beers, she golfs. At the end of the 18 she pours me into the passenger seat of the car and drives me home. Works for us!
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I don't golf, but wish my wife would take it up. Then I could do as you Bill!
 
mscard88 said:
Donkey King rules! And Frogger, those were my favs when they came out. And I started with Pong! See, old farts played 'em too!
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Good stuff! For me it was Missile Command and Atari Pole Position. Fed way too many quarters into those machines in the college pub when I should have been studying.

That explains why I turned out to be a flunkee pilot!
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Good stuff! For me it was Missile Command and Atari Pole Position. Fed way too many quarters into those machines in the college pub when I should have been studying.

That explains why I turned out to be a flunkee pilot!
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Another I liked was River Raid, a fighter flying a river taking targets out and other stuff too I think. Mine were all Atari I think.
 
I'm surprised to hear the bar scene is dying. I don't pay any attention to it but I do know that if you go to the Gaslamp district (downtown San Diego) on Saturday night it will be wall to wall people. Maybe they just aren't going into the bars. It has been awhile since I've been though. And the beach bars are packed on the weekends in summer. Less so in winter but not dead.
 
jkaduk said:
I'm surprised to hear the bar scene is dying. I don't pay any attention to it but I do know that if you go to the Gaslamp district (downtown San Diego) on Saturday night it will be wall to wall people. Maybe they just aren't going into the bars. It has been awhile since I've been though. And the beach bars are packed on the weekends in summer. Less so in winter but not dead.
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Yeah I don't think the bar scene is dying either... although I guess it depends on the kinds of bars people go to? Here in San Diego, like you said, the nightlife is thriving... even if you are not in the gaslamp area of downtown just about every microbrew and restaurant is packed on a weeknight. Funny... I often am amazed at just how many people can afford to go out and party, even on a weeknight

Not just San Diego and LA, but Boston, New York, etc., everywhere I've been has a pretty vibrant night life scene
 
Tantalum said:
Yeah I don't think the bar scene is dying either... although I guess it depends on the kinds of bars people go to? Here in San Diego, like you said, the nightlife is thriving... even if you are not in the gaslamp area of downtown just about every microbrew and restaurant is packed on a weeknight. Funny... I often am amazed at just how many people can afford to go out and party, even on a weeknight

Not just San Diego and LA, but Boston, New York, etc., everywhere I've been has a pretty vibrant night life scene
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Markets vary. Fact remains, overall alcohol revenue from bars/clubs is on the decline. Been that way for years.

GA is 'dying' but I see plenty of airplanes at the airport. :p
 
MadseasoN said:
I'm a pro musician so I'm playing gigs in either a club or bar at least 2X per month. Uber/Lyft isn't saving the bar scene. It may be saving people from DWI's but it's a fact that more people are staying home these days. Alcohol revenue is significantly down across my entire state, not only for bars with live music but also for bars with no music or prerecorded music. Judging by comments on musician forums and local network I think it's the same everywhere else.
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I’ll go out to hear a good musician. I won’t go out just to drink.

Hearing that alcohol sales are slipping when alcoholism has contributed to a hell of a lot of bad things in my extended family, including a suicide, well... I definitely don’t care.

I will tie on a bender about twice a year and both of those times are in exceedingly safe places to do so. And I suspect my “Bender” is just someone else’s “just getting warmed up”.

Friends who opened a bar nearly next door to Coors Field have been able to use the profits to open another and a restaurant, so I suspect the bars that are dying don’t know how to create “something else” to do at their bars. Those guys have a different activity or theme going on every night other than weekend baseball games where they’re just packed. But weeknights out of baseball season, you name it, they’re doing it. Kareoke, Trivia, Poker, Live Music, Pool tournaments, Foosball tournaments, whatever.

The place would lose out and be empty and the patrons would go to the places the had other things to do in a heartbeat if they didn’t have all of that. Instead they realized that alcohol isn’t the draw, the entertainment is. Selling alcohol just pays the bills. They also (for the drinkers) have hundreds of different types of whiskey and various “awards” for drinking large numbers of different types, so essentially you can get your name on a plaque on the wall. I joke with them it’s the “alcoholic wall of fame”. LOL.
 
falconkidding said:
Yeah I get that, probably why I play less FPS stuff and more mobas now ...
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I’ll have to Google mobas. LOL

FlyingElvii said:
A brand new basic equipped Cessna 172 in 1972 was 2-2.5 times the average yearly salary. Today, it is 8-9 times the average salary.
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Point of order. You can’t buy a “basic equipped” 172 anymore. You’ll get some freak of nature with a G1000, leather seats, and airbags and it certainly won’t be a simple flying machine like a non IFR 172 was from the factory in the 70s. ;)

Half Fast said:
Heck, there haven't even been any good aviation movies in many years, let alone TV. Where's a modern Sky King when you need him? :)
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Whatever you do, do NOT re-start the Iron Eagle franchise or I will hunt you down and hurt you. Hahahaha.
 
Many here will hate this because they are so in love with the internal combustion engine, but what will revitalize GA as well as motorcycles is when they go electric. The folks here that have electric cars now understand why. Electric propulsion is just so much better and it is actually new. Historically new and better airplanes have often come when new power plants come online and I predict this will be the case again in the future. If you want to engage millennials, offer them something that is actually new, not Cessna 172s and Harley Davidsons that are their grandpa's and even great grandpa's toys.

I know the time is not now and we must wait some more, because batteries are just not good enough for airplanes and not cheap enough for motorcycles, but it is coming. It will happen though and when it does, there will be a renaissance in all vehicles. I personally can't wait!

As an aside to the off topic part of this thread, I have been flying for 20 years and I own my own plane, but I've been playing video games even longer. I'm in my middle 50s and I regularly play COD multiplayer online. I am one of those that does watch other people play COD on YouTube.

The key is, you must have a personal connection to the game. You have to have played it competitively and understand it's nuances and complexities, then you can enjoy watching someone else play the game that is better than you, or enjoy watching a great match between professionals. That's right, there are professional video game players.

I can't understand why people would want to sit around watching people play soccer, or golf, or hockey, or tennis, or even basketball. Those are some televised games that bore me to death.
 
cowman said:
I am technically a Millenial although just barely.... and I say that because after reading all this Millenial-knocking comments and articles I was surprised to find I was in that group. So i guess hi I'm here, I fly.

The idea that Millennial are somehow THAT different than the generations behind them is asinine. The issue is cost and that most of them are a younger group just starting out in their careers or just coming out of a major recession. Sure, if you make it a priority you can afford it but how many people with no previous exposure are going to put in the training, time, study, and money... close to $10,000? and that's just the training so you can start doing what you got into it. These are people with little discretionary income, little free time, and often starting out with a pile of debt from school. If they were all out buying airplanes and flying lessons that would make them financially irresponsible if anything..
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:yeahthat:

The old geezers that congregate every Saturday morning at our Flying Club cafe go on and on about kids and "millenials" (after they get tired of complaining about the government). I've mentioned a few times that sort of attitude isn't going to make any young people feel welcome, want to hang out there and get involved in GA.
 
MadseasoN said:
Funny you say that. My kids use a capture device to record their games then they post them on YouTube.

Kids really do sit and watch videos of people playing video games. My head explodes ....
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Not only that. The nephew of my best friend is a millenial and told us that people go to stadiums to watch people play video games on the big screens. Um. wow.
 
Yup. Some people earn a living doing that and game reviews.
 
OkieFlyer said:
I'm no expert, and I certainly don't know the sales numbers, but is seems to me like the last 15-20 years saw a huge boom in motorcycling. I swear half the people I know bought a bike. People who have never ridden before. Yamaha, Polaris, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda, and HD came up with a host of new models. It was a period that saw the birth of Victory and the resurrection of Indian from the ashes. HD finally had to learn how to build a reliable bike. The Japanese bikes started building real American cruisers. It was difficult to keep up with all the new stuff!!! Then there's the crotch rocket. Sweet Jesus those things were everywhere. There were Motorcycle TV shows galore and racks full of motorcycle magazines. All kinds of bike groups were formed, even church riding groups in even the smallest towns. Then the craziness began to subside. Was it because of wimpy millennials, the economy, poor marketing or product development, iPhones? I don't know. I think a lot of people just got it out of their system and moved on. Now the market is returning back to pre-boom numbers, and some of the manufacturers are getting caught with their pants down after a couple decades of build-up. My wife and I rode for a number of years, but decided to give it up when we started having kids. We'll ride again someday, but for now, we are into things we can do as a family, like airplanes and boats...
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This is what I've seen too. Huge increase in road bikes in the past 8 or 9 years in my area, mostly older guys and gals. Many rode when they were younger. Stopped when they got married and started families. Back into it now. Owning a motorcycle need not be that expensive, it can be stored in the garage, you can do your own maintenance, they don't use much fuel, the insurance doesn't bankrupt you and more than anything else it's a convenient hobby/pastime because you can pull it out and go for a ride on a whim - no hangar fees, no annuals, no time consuming driving to the airport, pre-flights, taxi time, blah, blah.
 
GRG55 said:
:yeahthat:

The old geezers that congregate every Saturday morning at our Flying Club cafe go on and on about kids and "millenials" (after they get tired of complaining about the government). I've mentioned a few times that sort of attitude isn't going to make any young people feel welcome, want to hang out there and get involved in GA.
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*insults millenials*

*why don’t more millennials come by the airport*

:idea:
 
MadseasoN said:
I'm a pro musician so I'm playing gigs in either a club or bar at least 2X per month. Uber/Lyft isn't saving the bar scene. It may be saving people from DWI's but it's a fact that more people are staying home these days. Alcohol revenue is significantly down across my entire state, not only for bars with live music but also for bars with no music or prerecorded music. Judging by comments on musician forums and local network I think it's the same everywhere else.
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Think of what it would be like if Uber/Lyft weren't around. :eek:

Our oldest is 26 and she and her friends always take Uber when they go out. They plan on drinking, and they plan on not driving when they are drinking. They did from college on up. They drive to one of their homes, and then Uber from there. Then they crash at that place and drive home the next day.

No Uber and they don't go out drinking. Only exception is if the are close enough to walk and then they don't go out too late as they don't feel safe at night.
 
wayne said:
Think of what it would be like if Uber/Lyft weren't around. :eek:

Our oldest is 26 and she and her friends always take Uber when they go out. They plan on drinking, and they plan on not driving when they are drinking. They did from college on up. They drive to one of their homes, and then Uber from there. Then they crash at that place and drive home the next day.

No Uber and they don't go out drinking. Only exception is if the are close enough to walk and then they don't go out too late as they don't feel safe at night.
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Vs. back in the day when everyone went out driving soused to the gills and the cops looked the other way. Lets here for it Uber, though I doubt they'll survive the decade. A pity too.
 
UngaWunga said:
Yup. Some people earn a living doing that and game reviews.
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And more, like tutorials, hardware reviews, strategies, weapons reviews and commentary opinion pieces. The top YouTubers make well over six figures doing it.
 
steingar said:
Vs. back in the day when everyone went out driving soused to the gills and the cops looked the other way. Lets here for it Uber, though I doubt they'll survive the decade. A pity too.
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You posted what I was thinking. With the increased DUI enforcement and penalties, driving home from a bar is a riskier proposition than it was in the old days.
 
DesertNomad said:
Not only that. The nephew of my best friend is a millenial and told us that people go to stadiums to watch people play video games on the big screens. Um. wow.
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It isn't really that much different than watching football if you think about it. Although I'm not interested in either- I would rather do a thing than watch someone else do a thing be it sports, flying, or video games. Why sit around watching others have fun?
 
StevieTimes said:
This blew my mind too when I saw it. I watched my brother's boy playing a game. I asked him what he was playing; he said he wasn't playing, "just watching". I watched throughout the weekend he spent hours just watching other kids play! I could not believe it, it is so entertaining.
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FTFY
 
GRG55 said:
:yeahthat:

The old geezers that congregate every Saturday morning at our Flying Club cafe go on and on about kids and "millenials" (after they get tired of complaining about the government). I've mentioned a few times that sort of attitude isn't going to make any young people feel welcome, want to hang out there and get involved in GA.
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FYI, most geezers don't like being called old.
 
cowman said:
It isn't really that much different than watching football if you think about it.
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It isn't any different. Those that can't understand have bias and little understanding. It is assumed that it's an idle pastime that requires little skill, or natural ability. They're wrong. It's also largely a team game, at least in regards to FPS games. There are leagues with teams and personalities and specialists within those teams complete with stats just like professional ball sports. If you choose to follow, it's more interesting than NASCAR for sure, but no one's going to die... unless from heart failure. ;)

Although I'm not interested in either- I would rather do a thing than watch someone else do a thing be it sports, flying, or video games. Why sit around watching others have fun?
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Agreed, except that you can't go out and do a thing all the time. Many people here like to go flying, but they also like to sit and watch flying videos, read flying magazines and even, I don't know... participate in online flying forums.
 
Dav8or said:
The key is, you must have a personal connection to the game.
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That's exactly it. I love watching the Alpine skiing but most people probably find it boring. Just like I would rather spend an afternoon replacing the DE in the pool filter than watch basketball

GRG55 said:
I've mentioned a few times that sort of attitude isn't going to make any young people feel welcome
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The November issue of Flying was about millennials, which, by itself, I thought the article wasn't bad as it focused on costs, etc. What I didn't like was the Flying mail in January basically ridiculed the same people they are "supposedly" wishing would keep GA alive. The letter literally says "I believe that anyone who fits that description [of a millennial] should not be a pilot, nor should we encourage them to become a pilot. I suggest that ... [we] remove all electronics except for radio and transponder" <- really buddy? Okay. and the fact that Flying published THAT letter, as opposed to I'm sure dozens of others, probably written by millennials, is also telling to me about the "Legacy" aviation culture and it pushing younger folks out

cowman said:
Why sit around watching others have fun?
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Like Dav8or said above, if it's something I'm also good at and have a connection to, or is educational, then I can get behind that. I enjoy watching flying videos down to minimums, or bush flying, and downhill skiing.. but in general I totally agree with you
 
Tantalum said:
That's exactly it. I love watching the Alpine skiing but most people probably find it boring. Just like I would rather spend an afternoon replacing the DE in the pool filter than watch basketball


The November issue of Flying was about millennials, which, by itself, I thought the article wasn't bad as it focused on costs, etc. What I didn't like was the Flying mail in January basically ridiculed the same people they are "supposedly" wishing would keep GA alive. The letter literally says "I believe that anyone who fits that description [of a millennial] should not be a pilot, nor should we encourage them to become a pilot. I suggest that ... [we] remove all electronics except for radio and transponder" <- really buddy? Okay. and the fact that Flying published THAT letter, as opposed to I'm sure dozens of others, probably written by millennials, is also telling to me about the "Legacy" aviation culture and it pushing younger folks out


Like Dav8or said above, if it's something I'm also good at and have a connection to, or is educational, then I can get behind that. I enjoy watching flying videos down to minimums, or bush flying, and downhill skiing.. but in general I totally agree with you
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. I got multiple very rude comments from "youthfully challenged" people about my age while at oshkosh.
 
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