great soaring weekend

tonycondon

tonycondon

Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
15,459
Location
Wichita, KS
Display Name
Display name:
Tony
Saturday I didnt get a tow until 3:15 but managed a 2 hr flight. Tow to 3500 MSL (2000 AGL) followed by a pretty brisk climb to 8,300 MSL. Rate was about 4-500 fpm on average. often saw up to 800 fpm on the vario. It was booming! I stayed local since my trailer isnt very roadworthy. I did venture out about 10 miles but Since I was well over a mile high I was still very local to the gliderport and tons of other airports. I landed just after 5. Neal in the Ka-6 took a later tow, about 4:30, and also got 2 hrs, landing at 6:30.

Today I flew with a couple students this morning then raced to the gliderport, taking a tow about 1:15. Struggled a little after tow release but finally got into some good lift, 3-400 fpm, up to 6000 MSL. I putzed around the east side of town for a while. The lift started to cycle as the clouds over developed and so I started to drift down. I had a decent save at 1500 AGL, coring a nice thermal over the gliderport, but didnt get much of a climb after that. Once again, a 2 hr flight. Can't complain though, for the first flights of the season I will take it. If I can average 2 hrs a flight for the rest of the season I will be very happy!
 
I start back in sailplanes...well, ah, hmm...soon?

Sounds like a good start to the season, Tony!
 
Lance, go to directly to Chillihowee do not pass any powered airplanes :)
 
Not a bad day. I'll be gliding again... er... well, it will be a while. We've gotten more done since this photo- almost ready to cover it. Maybe next weekend. Then... well, it will be a while. :D
 

Attachments

  • rot233may09.JPG
    rot233may09.JPG
    407.4 KB · Views: 17
Saturday was a good day.. strong lift.. and strong sink.. The training birds (2-33) could not get more than 5nm away from the airport. But the XC birds did fine.. LS-4 out for a couple of hours.. LS-3-17 XC about 80nm to BTY, he had to hang out on one of the peaks nearby for a while, had to wait for the lift to cycle.
 
Tony,

I got some time in the air on Sat afternoon, too. I was in the Blanik L-13 with an instructor in the back. My first official lesson. My takeoff roll was a little wobbly, I was getting used to the controls. Didn't have much trouble staying low to let the tow-plane finish his takeoff. The initial climb wasn't too bad, but I really was wandering all over during much of the tow. I did get a lot of practice on how to take up slack in the air, now I just need to work on not needing to do that!

Released at 4000msl (3000' tow), dropped about 500' before we found some good lift. Got up to 6000msl, had to maintain cloud separation and all that.

CFI showed me a turning stall - I wish he would have warned me first. We finally decided to head back in case somebody else wanted to fly. There was such good lift all around that it really took some effort to descend.

The CFI handled the landing.

1 hour in the logbook, 1 lesson, 1 great day.
 
Yes it was a great weekend in Ephrata Washington. I flew Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Monday was flyable but not very good until very late in the day.

They were having a 3 day informal contest On Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Monday they canceled the contest flying due to late soaring weather but many pilots still flew. There were about 25 contest glider flying.

Attached are the final score sheets from the contest. If I figured out how to attach them properly. Somehow I managed to not get myself low and struggling or landing out and ended up winning the contest. I got about 10 hours of flying in the three flights and flew over 400 miles total.

Brian
HP16T "V6"
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4879.JPG
    IMG_4879.JPG
    772.4 KB · Views: 13
  • IMG_4927.JPG
    IMG_4927.JPG
    789.6 KB · Views: 10
  • IMG_4928.JPG
    IMG_4928.JPG
    830.5 KB · Views: 9
Congrats Mathew and Brian and Tony!
It was crappy weather in Utah and Iowa so all my glider flying plans were bust but the weather looks good (back in Utah now) for the next 5 days so there will be much glider flying to be had. I hopefully will meet with a new student tomorrow! Matt keep us posted on your training progress, Tony I know you will keep us posted, and Brian keep em coming so when I cant fly at least I can hear about one of you guys getting some stick time.
 
congrats on winning your contest, Brian! Didn't get to do any gliderflying this past weekend, but I did get a lot done. We assebled the club 1-26 on Sunday, and I'm finally done with the radio install in my Ka-6. I even got in some powered flying in on Saturday. We were going to head up to Faribault, MN to do some winching, but the WX was to crappy for that :-(

So far the WX looks good for this weekend. Now all I have to do is keep up my 3 hour average flight time so far this year :)
 
vontresc said:
So far the WX looks good for this weekend. Now all I have to do is keep up my 3 hour average flight time so far this year :)
Click to expand...

Just fly from California to New York on a single tow. The fact that you get towed up to FL330 by Mari's Citation is irrelevant. ;)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Just fly from California to New York on a single tow. The fact that you get towed up to FL330 by Mari's Citation is irrelevant. ;)
Click to expand...

in petes glider a 33000 foot tow would only be good for about 200 miles of straight ahead glide. better hope that he finds some lift somewhere.
 
akite said:
Congrats Mathew and Brian and Tony!
It was crappy weather in Utah and Iowa so all my glider flying plans were bust but the weather looks good (back in Utah now) for the next 5 days so there will be much glider flying to be had. I hopefully will meet with a new student tomorrow! Matt keep us posted on your training progress, Tony I know you will keep us posted, and Brian keep em coming so when I cant fly at least I can hear about one of you guys getting some stick time.
Click to expand...

Looks like the rain is supposed to move out in another day so we should see sunny and warm for Saturday. The mosquitos were killing us last Sat, That Deep Woods OFF that I brougth was worth its weight in gold.

I need to contact one of the club CFIs and tow pilots today to see when they'll be available. Maybe I can get an early start and get in two or three short flights before the rest of the club shows up for the afternoon.

I really hoped I could get that rating this summer, but after checking my calendar the other day there's a possibility I might be looking at next summer. So it goes. Life is only as complicated as you let it get, and I think I've let it get out of control!

Matt
 
tonycondon said:
in petes glider a 33000 foot tow would only be good for about 200 miles of straight ahead glide. better hope that he finds some lift somewhere.
Click to expand...

Besides the 1% rule would require a 625 mile XC for just a silver badge. And I'm pretty sure that my Vne at that altitude is well below Mari's Vs :D
 
brcase said:
Somehow I managed to not get myself low and struggling or landing out and ended up winning the contest.
Brian
HP16T "V6"
Click to expand...


Nice work man! Thats a real accomplishment
 
tonycondon said:
in petes glider a 33000 foot tow would only be good for about 200 miles of straight ahead glide. better hope that he finds some lift somewhere.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know. I was having this discussion with a friend of mine yesterday. It's still funny to think about, though. :)
 
tonycondon said:
in petes glider a 33000 foot tow would only be good for about 200 miles of straight ahead glide. better hope that he finds some lift somewhere.
Click to expand...

Who are you and what did you do with the real Tony Condon?

The real Tony Condon would have suggested putting a tow hook on SpaceShipTwo... :rofl:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Who are you and what did you do with the real Tony Condon?

The real Tony Condon would have suggested putting a tow hook on SpaceShipTwo... :rofl:
Click to expand...

im still trying to determine if flying SpaceShipTwo will require an aero tow or self launch endorsement.

Mike Melville and the others did have to get glider ratings in order to fly SpaceShipOne, since it was registered as an Experimental-Amatuer Built Glider.
 
vontresc said:
Besides the 1% rule would require a 625 mile XC for just a silver badge. And I'm pretty sure that my Vne at that altitude is well below Mari's Vs :D
Click to expand...

Well considering how both Vne and Vs are based on indicated airspeed the altitude should be irrelevant. Of course, flutter being a function of true airspeed, could pose a problem..
 
jesse said:
Well considering how both Vne and Vs are based on indicated airspeed the altitude should be irrelevant. Of course, flutter being a function of true airspeed, could pose a problem..
Click to expand...

Yeah I was considering the flutter issue when I made that post....
 
i guess thats why they dont put towhooks on citation jets.
 
Got my second weekend of glider training - two flights today. WX was clear, but pretty windy. Not much thermal action, but when you found one, it was usually pretty good.

First flight was a xwind takeoff, release after 3000 tow, followed by stalls, and more stalls, with and without dive brakes, both straight and turning. I got my first attempt at landing. Note to self: you can't tell yourself enough times "Don't flare in a glider!" Total time was .3.

Next flight, we expected more of the same. But the vario started whistling. After a 2500' tow, we found a good thermal and gained another 2000' at a little over 500fpm before it topped out. Now we're pleny high so we did some spins. Another student was waiting, so we did an emergency decent and one more landing. This time I did land flat, but didn't ease the tail down. We rolled to stop and the tail dropped with a thud. Time on this flight was .5.

I took a picture during tow - we slid to the left of the towplane to get a better shot.
 

Attachments

  • DSCN0682.JPG
    DSCN0682.JPG
    1.3 MB · Views: 25
matthew - nice!

is that a 150/150 that you guys tow with up there? what sort of climb rates do you get pulling the blanik? in that picture it looks like you were in the top left corner of a wake box. keep on bringing the reports!
 
Yeah - it's a 150 with a 150hp 172 engine and a climb prop. It does just OK with a loaded Blanik. A couple of the guys in the club really, really want to get Kim's Birddog for towing. Today our density altitude was 2300' above field elevation, so that didn't help much, either.

I told my towplane pilot after last week's flight that I was sorry for pulling him all over the sky. He said "Yeah, that happens when you box the wake". I told him I wasn't.

I had a week for everything to soak in, and did a fair job on both tows today. It really takes a lot of concentration (at least for me, right now). Even a quick glance to locate the airport and I was all out of position. Formation flying is quite a new experience.

Landing approach was actually pretty straighforward. Those divebrakes really do a good job of changing the approach angle. I played with them a lot on my second landing.
 
Formation flying is quite a new experience.

Landing approach was actually pretty straighforward. Those divebrakes really do a good job of changing the approach angle. I played with them a lot on my second landing.[/quote]


That should read, "Formation flying TIED TOGETHER is quite a new experience.

Point being, it's a very intense challenging task. Don't expect to be good at it right away.

A couple rules of thumb that can help with approach... As you are learning the approach and landing in gliders your recognition and reaction to the energy management situation will be developing. Meaning, you will be a little behind in noticing when inputs from you are needed.

So, the thing to do is this: If you think you are a little low, or high, don't make a small change in airbrakes and wait for things to gradually improve. Make a big correction right away and hold it till the picture starts to look like you want it to. That way, you get it over with and have more TIME to notice and react to the next change.

A perfect example of an aspect of this on final approach. If you realize that you aren't really on the extended centerline a common reaction is to bank slightly toward the centerline and gradually angling toward the end of the runway. A better response is to bank decisively and immediately to the centerline. That way, you get the correction over with and have more time and attention to notice and react to whatever else comes along.

As to the flare... Here you don't want to make ANY large or quick corrections with the airbrakes. And in regards to whether to flare or not, there are differing schools of thought here which depend a lot on the type of training glider used and the individual instructors habits. Bottom line though is that, ultimately, most single seat sailplanes and all high performance sailplanes need to be landed in a very low energy condition. that means fully held off, fully flared, full stall landings like we do in airplanes. Flying gliders to the ground is a useful if old school tool that works with some sailplanes but eventually will have to be un-learned. For now, go along with your instructors but keep an open mind.
 
We might be talking about the same thing - just using different terminology. My first landing I did 'flare', just enough that I hit with the tailwheel first. My second try I overcorrected, maybe just a little, and landed solely on the main. The biggest problem on me second try was that I forgot I have a tailwheel, I've only ever flown with the tailwheel in the front. Rather than letting it stop flying so both wheels touched either at the same time, or by landing on the main and letting the tail settle under control, I let it drop. The convention among the more guys here more experienced with the Blanik, which is everybody besides me, is that the weak spot is the tail wheel. They prefer to roll out on the main, then while there is still some elevator authority, ease the tail down.

I played with the brakes on approach and short final because I could, not necessarily because I had to. I DID need them, and a slip, because I was high, but I understand your point about making a correction, and making it count. All my CFIs have said essentially the same thing about learning something new.

Thanks for the tips.

I have a couple of books for resources, one is a transition for power-pilots. I'm probably just thinking too much right now.

I now have a total of two landings on my own, each one I've managed to find a different way to make a mistake. If it's anything like my power flying experience, each landing gives me an opportunity make different mistakes. I can't wait to get out and make some more!

Matt
 
Matthew said:
I now have a total of two landings on my own, each one I've managed to find a different way to make a mistake. If it's anything like my power flying experience, each landing gives me an opportunity make different mistakes. I can't wait to get out and make some more!

Matt
Click to expand...

thats the spirit!

you can still make pretty low energy landings on the main wheel in the blanik. the trick is having the right amount of airbrake at touchdown. I generally end up with nearly full or full airbrake towards the end of the approach, and as I ease into ground effect I pull back slightly and ease off the airbrakes a bit. this flattens out my glide angle. It seems that the amount of airbrake you have at touchdown basically sets your touchdown attitude. then you can ease the stick back to touch down nice and slow. watch your old guys land the glider and pay attention to where the airbrakes are at at touchdown. Then before you take off look at the brakes and set them at that point, then note where the handle is at. half airbrakes is not half the handle throw.
 
L-13s do have a weak area where the tail wheel attaches. Too many hits and it cracks the former up inside. Hard to repair. It's easier to land "on the main" in a level attitude if you land with flaps. Many don't teach using flaps in the traffic pattern because you are then faced with a max speed with flaps extended limitation. Many refer to them as "thermaling flaps".

I have not heard of any damage reports to the tail wheel attach point on the L-23s but I would suspect it to be the same. There was a warning about pushing L-23s backwards across rough ground. The spring mechanism on the tail wheel is designed for forward motion, not backwards motion. There are no "thermal or landing" flaps on the L-23.

Sounds like the landing lessons are going well.
 
Yup, good to go easy on the tail with Blaniks. Low energy main wheel landings are good. Main and tail together if you are gentle and LZ is smooth. Sounds like you're getting it figured out just fine.

Glider landings will help with tailwheel airplane transition too.

And in the words of CFIG Grand Funkmaster Burt Compton, "Be sure to add an S for SMILE to the end of each checklist!"
 
I just got a lot out of reading this thread! I started back up in gliders yesterday with a couple of flights in the blanik L-13. On the second flight I flew the tow and jeepers that was a little appalling. :eek: But I understand now how mushy the controls are at such a slow speed and how much more aggressive I'll need to be with it. My landings have been of the "guided" sort, but I think I'm getting a sense of it so maybe I won't have to have my hand held too much longer - but I'm ok however that turns out. Being safe and smart is number one, for sure.

They sure are fun! :D
 
Pete.. looked like a great flight in the Ka-6... summer has arrived.
 
Cool to hear that so many others are into gliders, too. I just got back from the airport a couple minutes ago, flew the 172 for a little bit. I basically did most of the same maneuvers that I just did in the Blanik. The thing I noticed, though, was my landings (I did three) were way better than before the glider lessons. Don't know why, but I'm sure it was the rudder work. I had a direct x-wind of 6G14 so I had to be dancing on the pedals.

So far the only time I've used the Blanik flaps have been while thermalling.

The glider club is also the first club I've been a member of. Quite a mix of experience and personalities. One guy is a former airline capt (Continental, I think), another guy would be happy if all he ever did was fly low and slow in an ultralight. Another owns a Libelle and when he launches, we just never see him again for 3 or 4 hours.
 
Matthew said:
So far the only time I've used the Blanik flaps have been while thermalling.
... Another owns a Libelle and when he launches, we just never see him again for 3 or 4 hours.
Click to expand...

I only used the flaps on the L13 when thermalling as well. you can work some very weak lift in the L13 with those flaps out, circling at 38 knots. just sort of perched up there floating on the thermal. very cool

don't worry about the libelle guy, a few years of practice and you'll be there too. I assume you've discovered the classified ads on wingsandwheels.com ?
 
tonycondon said:
I only used the flaps on the L13 when thermalling as well. you can work some very weak lift in the L13 with those flaps out, circling at 38 knots. just sort of perched up there floating on the thermal. very cool

don't worry about the libelle guy, a few years of practice and you'll be there too. I assume you've discovered the classified ads on wingsandwheels.com ?
Click to expand...

The CFI I've been flying with does extend the flaps in the thermals. I can feel the extra lift. It really does just float. I was really surpised in the stall, though. There is total silence. And I mean that it is REALLY quiet. I heard the train 1 mile below us blowing the whistle almost like I was standing at the crossing.

The Libelle guy is a really neat guy to talk to. He said he's never used the water ballast. I also asked him, since he wears a parachute, if he's ever skydived (dove?). He said, "No, if I need to jump, I'll jump."

I've started looking at the ads!
 
I didn't get any flying in this weekend as I was backpacking in Yellowstone. I did however give two rides on my way up to Yellowstone in the Blanik L-13. The first ride was an hour with Nate, an old college roomate from Ames who was out visiting. The second ride was for a friend from Alaska. My other friend Dan got in 5.3 hours to complete his Silver badge this weekend. I am hopefully meeting with a new student tomorrow to get him started in the Blanik. Keep up the good work Mathew!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Dangit, there goes a couple hours of my day.

I like the 103A at the bottom of page 3: http://wingsandwheels.com/wantads3.htm

I should go look at it, it's practically right here.

No, I shouldn't. :rofl:
Click to expand...

Stay away from that 103, Kent. It has so much extra fibreglass in the tail (read broken tail boom), that it needs a ton of nose ballast. the usefull load is so low that it's parctically a single person ship.

That Lak-12 for 13.5k sure is a lot of L/D for the buck. At that price I could deal with the weight of the wing panels.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top