great soaring weekend

vontresc said:
Stay away from that 103, Kent. It has so much extra fibreglass in the tail (read broken tail boom), that it needs a ton of nose ballast. the usefull load is so low that it's parctically a single person ship.
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I think putting *me* in the front would be plenty to balance it out. :rofl:

So you're saying this particular one broke its tail off? Or should I stay away from all 103's/103A's?

What I'd really like in a glider: 2 seats (gotta share the love ya know!), decent looks and performance, and some semblance of comfort for long soaring flights. Oh, and reasonably priced. Am I ever gonna find it?
 
Well this one in particular broke it's tail. Grob 103s are ok, but I only have limited time in one, and I didn't enjoy it all that much. I think you are specing out a Duo Discus in all facets except for the cheap part :D.

There aren't many two seaters with a ton of performance, since most of them are trainers. For fun good looks, comfort, and descent soarability an ASK-13 is a pretty good ship.

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flyingcheesehead said:
I think putting *me* in the front would be plenty to balance it out. :rofl:

So you're saying this particular one broke its tail off? Or should I stay away from all 103's/103A's?

What I'd really like in a glider: 2 seats (gotta share the love ya know!), decent looks and performance, and some semblance of comfort for long soaring flights. Oh, and reasonably priced. Am I ever gonna find it?
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Buy the best trailer you can afford- take whatever glider is in it.
 
I'm not a small guy - 6'1", 220 - I wonder how many of those things I could fit into?!? Or am I doomed to fly the blanik forever... (not a terrible thing in and of itself, but still...)
 
etsisk said:
I'm not a small guy - 6'1", 220 - I wonder how many of those things I could fit into?!? Or am I doomed to fly the blanik forever... (not a terrible thing in and of itself, but still...)
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Well I'm 5'10", and 230, and I can squeeze myself into my Ka-6. It's a pretty tight fit though. Cockpit size varies greatly among various models. The Cirrus/Open Cirrus cockpit is cavernous, and the Jantar ain't small either. Just "test sit" a few models to see what size will work out for you.
 
etsisk said:
I'm not a small guy - 6'1", 220 - I wonder how many of those things I could fit into?!? Or am I doomed to fly the blanik forever... (not a terrible thing in and of itself, but still...)
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One of the club guys has a Cirrus. He's not a little guy, and fits easily into that aircraft.
 
I am 6' 4" and 235 and fly my Jantar Std 2 with ease, it would actually fit a much taller guy, not much wider. I have also flown the open cirrus and it is comfy. The Schweizer 1-34 is like flying a lazy boy recliner around and the 1-36 is pretty good too. The LS-3 will fit a taller guy as well. Just sit in every glider you can and make a list with notes that is what I have been doing.
 
There is a K13 for sale currently from Knauff and Grove (google) That is one of the finest handling 2 seaters ever. Best back seat available. Tony, Adam, and Pete can attest. Wood wings ride nice but can't be left tied out. Affordable compared to just about any fiberglass ships. The 103s are great if you find a good one but pricy. A good low time Lark is hard to beat but rare. There is a very cheap very nice vintage K4 on the market currently. Probably the best affordable 2 seater out there. Like the k13 needs to be kept inside. 1 seaters are even more affordable and more fun to take XC
 
Matthew said:
Another owns a Libelle and when he launches, we just never see him again for 3 or 4 hours.
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Libelle pilots are known for that.. I've known a few 1-26 pilots to knock off 500+km flights too.
 
vontresc said:
Stay away from that 103, Kent. It has so much extra fibreglass in the tail (read broken tail boom), that it needs a ton of nose ballast. the usefull load is so low that it's parctically a single person ship.
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G103s and 103As are known for broken tailbooms, people don't know how to fly (land) them. It's hard to find a 103 that has not been broken.

There are a lot of 103 varients, becareful with them. Some have an AD that requires stiffining in the tail boom even if has never been broken. With out the AD fix, your Speeds, Vno and Vne, are lowered, and the Max GW is lower.. again making it a single seat bird.

Most good Grob 103s will have a useful load of about 400#.
Ours is good, a G103 Twin II. Not an Acro model, 103A, and not a Twin Astir or Twin III. Those have the restrictions.
 
Matthew said:
The thing I noticed, though, was my landings (I did three) were way better than before the glider lessons. Don't know why, but I'm sure it was the rudder work. I had a direct x-wind of 6G14 so I had to be dancing on the pedals.
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I flew power for many many many years... and then I noticed after I started flying gliders.. that my power flying was different. I was more aware of everything.. especially what the wind/weather was doing to my flying.

My power flying became much smoother and not forced.
 
BillTIZ said:
I flew power for many many many years... and then I noticed after I started flying gliders.. that my power flying was different. I was more aware of everything.. especially what the wind/weather was doing to my flying.

My power flying became much smoother and not forced.
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Yeah - one big reason I began looking into gliders. I figured it would make me a better pilot. I think it is already starting to.
 
etsisk said:
I'm not a small guy - 6'1", 220 - I wonder how many of those things I could fit into?!? Or am I doomed to fly the blanik forever... (not a terrible thing in and of itself, but still...)
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The Blanik is probably the most uncomfortable glider I have flown, I have about 100 hours in them. But that is what it is good at, getting you up and flying but back in time for the next guy to fly. OK a 2-33 might be worse.

I am 5' 11" and 220#. Height/Weight isn't the only factor Some gliders handle short legs better than long ones even for the same overall height. You could probably stuff yourself into a Libelle. It would be a very tight fit but it still would be more much more comfortable than the Blanik. My 2nd flight in the Libelle was 4.9 hours. I missed the Silver (i think) badge time by less than 6 minutes. There are quite a few very roomy gliders out there.

As for Trailers, Trailers can really make or break (no pun intended) a glider. I have spent a fair amount of time on my trailer. Since I have Job I often end up taking off at noon and going flying. With help from one person I can assembly my glider in less than 20 minutes and be airbore in 30 minutes. The only thing I need the second person for is to install the wings which takes less than 5 minutes. I could get a one man rigging stand but it would mostly just slow me down, it is faster with two people and I never fly alone anyway.

If it took 4 people and an 1.5 hours to assembly my glider I wouldn't fly as much. Some people leave them tied outside or hangered due to the difficulty of assembly. But then you have push/tow them to the end of the runway. It also tends to make pilots avoid the possiblity of landing away from the airport since they know they will have to reassemble the glider when they return. As a result the usually only fly in the vincinty of the airport. The ease of assembly and the realization that after a few flights you probably won't be taking a passengers with you that often anyway is why most glider pilots end up with single place gliders. They can rent a two seater when the want to give a ride.

Brian
HP16T N16VP
 
A lot of the difficulty while under tow can be alleviated with the right tow pilot! :D

REALtowpilot.jpg
 
GREAT photo. Should be submitted to SSA for mag or calendar
 
apparently it's been out there for a while - I just stole it from an email one of the tow pilots sent to the club! :D :D
 
I think I have seen it in the SSA Photo's section.
 
Had the day off work today - a couple guys wanted to fly, so I volunteered to be ground support. 1-26 went first, got in 1.5 hrs. Blanik went next, thought he found lift and released. He ended up coming right back down. New Blanik pilot, next flight, took his buddy for 30 minutes and said the thermals were really building. First Blanik pilot went back up for an hour - this is the guy who normally flys 3+ hours in his own glider, but it was getting close to quitting time so he came back early.

Nice day, just enough clouds to not get too hot, and got to enjoy watching some pretty good glider pilots do their thing. No instructor this afternoon so I didn't fly. I'll be tied up tomorrow and forcast is for 20 kts + winds anyway, so I won't be flying tomorrow either. I usually have too much to do on Sunday, but I might see if I can work in a quick flight then anyway.
 
it was a great training day - cloudy, cool wind - we had to get off tow at 1800' agl to stay under the clouds, so I got three 20 minute sleigh rides! :rolleyes:

But I flew the tow for all three flights, first one was in control but I was overcontrolling it like a sonuvagun, but finally figured out how to handle the stick. The next two made me happy. By the third landing the landings were all mine, and that felt pretty good, too - playing with the airbrake, etc... felt good to work the plane. :)

I'm really enjoying this! :)
 
etsisk said:
it was a great training day - cloudy, cool wind - we had to get off tow at 1800' agl to stay under the clouds, so I got three 20 minute sleigh rides! :rolleyes:

But I flew the tow for all three flights, first one was in control but I was overcontrolling it like a sonuvagun, but finally figured out how to handle the stick. The next two made me happy. By the third landing the landings were all mine, and that felt pretty good, too - playing with the airbrake, etc... felt good to work the plane. :)

I'm really enjoying this! :)
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Yeah, that overcontrolling bit on tow was the same thing I was doing the first one or two times. I had to ask the CFI to get me back under control more than once.
 
The weather here in Utah was supposed to be dicey but I checked the winds and it looked like the ridge would be working. Turns out that there were larger thermals and ridge. So Wil and I put in 5.1 hours up against the mountains in the Blanik which is great since that was the reason Wil came to see me. I think my butt may be numb for a week though.
 
matthew and tom - glad to hear that your lessons are progressing! keep us updated, i love reading about it.

adam - :p
 
akite said:
The weather here in Utah was supposed to be dicey but I checked the winds and it looked like the ridge would be working. Turns out that there were larger thermals and ridge. So Wil and I put in 5.1 hours up against the mountains in the Blanik which is great since that was the reason Wil came to see me. I think my butt may be numb for a week though.
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Ahh... the dreaded "Blanik Butt".. :rofl:
really tough in the back seat.
 
etsisk said:
.... first one was in control but I was overcontrolling it like a sonuvagun, but finally figured out how to handle the stick. .....
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Churning Butter..

I ****ed off a very experienced military pilot last month.. he is working on his Glider "add-on"... he was "churning butter" trying to stay in position on tow... I asked him... when your were flying your B-52 in the "pre contact" position.. were you working this hard?

He said... ok.. show me.. at which time I did and the stick moved maybe 10% of what he was doing..

Then when we got off tow,, he could not keep a coordinated turn to stay in the thermal.. too much or not enough or even wrong rudder.. chasing the yaw string..

I told him,.. to learn what your feet are for you need to fly more than once every two months.
 
BillTIZ said:
Churning Butter..
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Seriously! :redface:

I finally figured out that, for me, resting my arms on my legs and having a two-handed fingertip grip about half-way down the stick does the trick for me (once I've got enough airspeed that I DON'T have to wrestle the stick all over just to get a response from the thing!). Settles things right down.
 
BillTIZ said:
Churning Butter...
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LOL that pertty much sounds like my first tow last year in the 2-33. That flight was like Mr. Toads wild ride I tell 'ya. I just wish it was due to a rough day, but I think it was the schmuck on the controls :D
 
Was Adam towing or in the back seat, or just watching and laughing?

I really, really try to not provide any entertainment for the folks at the airport. :no:
 
ugh. Not so great today. Overcast and 1000', runways were on the soft side with standing water along the edges. I showed up along with a couple other guys and we just talked for a while. It was NOT a wasted day.
 
vontresc said:
LOL that pertty much sounds like my first tow last year in the 2-33. That flight was like Mr. Toads wild ride I tell 'ya. I just wish it was due to a rough day, but I think it was the schmuck on the controls :D
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We call them "Rodeo Tows" out here.. and yesterday was a fine day for it.
The summer season is here.

Strong Thermals.. dust devils lined up every 1-2 miles coming up the valley and winds were 5-15 from the SW. You know the thermals are strong when your getting pelted with sand on the windscreen at 2K AGL
Later in the afternoon winds were closer to 15-20 steady and a 60-90 degree crosswind. Everyone got down safely. Some landing across the infield rather than fight the cross wind.

I was the designated tow pilot for the day, everyone that wanted to stay up did. And a lot of exciting but not unsafe landings in the Pawnee.
 
As aviation law mandates, the weather has been mostly crappy in norther Utah so we havent had to many rodeo tows yet but now that I am half way across the country trecking towards Elmira for IVSM, the weather turns and everyone is flying without me.:frown2:. I guess I am pretty excited about working with three diferent students over the past few weeks in the mornings before OD and hopefully I will fly some at Elmira.
 
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