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Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by benyflyguy, Dec 21, 2018.
The IACRA site is probably taken down...
DPEs are private contractors paid by applicants. The shut down has no affect.
IACRA is up an running, the controllers are working, Flight Service isn’t unplugged.
You may want to check out this thread on reddit where a user, your friendly asi, supposedly a safety inspector, is talking about it. Here is what he has to say to a doe about what the asi doesn’t think a dpe will be able to continue giving checkrides during the shutdown.
“Exactly, you are a representative of the FAA, and you conduct work on behalf of the FAA. Without the FAA operating like normal, your designated work is suspended until we are open again.
Your POI will probably get ahold of you on Wednesday since Monday and Tuesday are holidays, and give you the run down if they haven’t resolved the budget by then."
There is another post by someone who checked with their testing center and confirmed they are not allowed to administer written tests.
I agree that following logic would suggest this shouldn't affect checkrides, but I urge you to separate what seems logical to you from the "logic" of the gubimint.
I certainly hope this isn't the case, as I passed my IR checkride Tuesday, so I hope my plastic isn't held up. I also wanted to take my CAX test next week. So I hope this all to be internet lore.
Stop and think about this for a minute. If the POI has been furloughed how is the DPE getting that call?
Here is what AOPA posted for last shut down.
Summary of suspended activities
Here is a list of suspended activities taken directly from “Operations During a Lapse in Annual Appropriations Plans by Operating Administration,” issued by the Department of Transportation Office of the Assistant Secretary for Budget and Programs, and CFO:
Development of new air traffic control specialists not certified to work a position;
Issuance of airmen certificates;
Approval of exemptions for unmanned aerial systems operations;
The FAA’s aircraft registry will close, delaying deliveries of new aircraft, and stopping the sale of used planes;
Facility security inspections, evaluations, audits and inspections;
Routine personnel security background investigations;
Development, operational testing, and evaluation of NextGen technologies;
Development of NextGen safety standards;
Air traffic performance analysis;
Capital planning for FAA facilities and equipment;
Investment planning and financial analysis;
Audit and evaluation;
Financial operations, controls, reporting and accountability;
Most budgeting functions (except those necessary to provide necessary services to offices funded with multi-year appropriations and contract authority);
Employee drug testing program;
Law enforcement assistance support;
Most administrative support functions not required for support of life and safety “excepted” positions; and
Congressional liaison services.
Fortunately, what I think or what you think doesn’t matter. Time will tell.
But the aircraft registry and airmen's database appear to be down.
For reference, here is the exact quote from the King video. I tried as best I could to transcribe it word for word.
DPE Mary: When is the only time that you would have to use your alternate that you filed? When is the only time that you would really have to go there?
Martha King's somewhat rambling answer: The only time you'd really have to go to your alternate is if you lost communications somewhere on the trip and you're in IFR the whole time and you go to your destination and shoot it and miss it. They're expecting you to go to your alternate that you filed and they're protecting the airspace from your destination to your alternate and that's where you need to go if you lost comms. Otherwise as long as you're talking to ATC at any time you can say "I don't like whatever, I want to [go somewhere else]".
I am kind of big on throughly planning your flight and flying your plan. If I am planning a flight in poor weather, I am selecting a very solid option as an alternate. Preferably the primary airport in a Class C complete with surveillance radar, weather radar, and that those nice bright ALSF-2 lights. I am also planning other alternates for departure and long my route should I need to divert. This includes reviewing the approaches and NOTAMs preflight.
Sunday AM has come and gone . . . Don’t leave us hangin.
Is that holding pattern west of Jake Arner (22N) based off the airport?
Is that a "6" or "9" mile distance shown south of KRAZE?
Sorry, can't help myself. Used to be a DPE.
Lol, damn, took me a little while, but I would say that hold is west of Biley, based of the 298 radial of FTX. Let me know if I got it right. The distance is 6. Keep them coming.
Bingo. Having planned for an alternate, including reviewing the approaches, transportation availability, etc, in by far most cases, I am going to go there in a pinch rather than pick a new location. But sometimes I plan two destination alternates. If, for example, the poor weather flight is to a coastal airport, I usually think in terms of two alternates. One coastal and one inland. Those systems are unpredictable and either one could be the one which socks in. I am going to go the better one when I miss at my destination and ATC queries, "say your intentions." Actually, I am going to the place where I have the best chance of getting in, based on the most current weather information, not my planning exercise 3 or more hours earlier.
Lost comm? No different. No regulation, rule, or FAA guidance I know of saying you have to go to the one you filed to show you thought about fuel reserves. I'm still going where I can get in based on the most current information I have. I'm not going to take a chance on another missed approach just because ATC might take a look to see what I filed.
Fortunately, the issue is really mostly academic. Here's what I think it takes to get into the situation in which ATC might ask to see your filed alternate:
The pilot experiences lost comm.
The pilot does not encounter conditions which would allow a visual diversion.
The pilot does not consider the lost comm an emergency and diverts to the nearest acceptable airport. For me, "emergency" means the highly reliable communication radios in the aircraft I fly are the only things not working and I'm completely satisfied it's not the first indication of an electrical problem.
The pilot goes to the original destination and the weather at the destination is indeed bad enough to go missed.
I guess you could add a 5th - The controller decides to ask for your filed alternate instead of watching yo on radar to get an idea of your intentions.
IMO, that's a lot of ifs in 2018-2019
Probably just a typo but check the identifier again.
FJC, don't know where FTX came from.
Where did you get that picture? The current GOV and JEPP charts make it clear that the hold is BILEY on the FJC298r. The 6 south of KRAZE is on the other side of the Airway line where it’s supposed to be.
It looks exactly like that on the current FAA low enroute chart. And "ABE" is an airport, not a VOR. No radials there.
Sorry. I though I posted. Ceilings too low need 5000’ ceiling for checkride. All week forecast good till evening. Day before it started to change. I could have gotten to KSEG for the ride. I thought that I would just go out and get done paperwork wise and oral wise done and see what weather looked like. But he said that they can’t start checkrides without our intention of finishing, something about cracking down on rides postponed during flight due to weather. Was possible opening in afternoon if his commercial checkride cancelled but no avail.
It is now scheduled for Thursday at 1pm. Weather now looks good...so it will probably be a hailstorm!!!
Yep. That’s exactally the way it looks on the paper chart.
Now that Paul has answered, I'll say that's a great chart segment. I can definitely see someone mistakenly thinking that the holding pattern has something to do with 22N, particularly because it's an off-airway hold. The 6 is easier, but with folks holding and displaying charts track up, I can kind of see it.
I looked it up on FF, the racetrack moves dynamically as you zoom, sometimes it's right over the airport other times it's as shown above. Once I zoomed out it was pretty clear which fix and radial it was depicted on.
Already changed the ABE to FJC. The Charts are inconsistent. The L34 is correct. The L29 has the boo boos
It’s changing from the L34 to the L29
@midlifeflyer and @PaulS. Oops, 34, not 33
Skyvector, L-30 view for the OP's home 'drome (HZL). It's hard to find mileages posted above the airway, but they're there sometimes. I can see how getting used to the usual location below it could lead to misreading a six as a nine and vice versa. So, to be sure, you need to add up the other distances to see how many miles are left--then you'll see the math doesn't add up either! Good luck, bennyflyguy.
As to the T-route and higher MEA, I don't understand that myself. You wouldn't think a GPS route is wider than an airway at first blush, I'd expect the opposite, but I haven't researched the answer since it isn't MY instrument checkride. (hint, hint)
And of course holding patterns aren't based off airports, but newbies born with "Direct to" tattoo'd on their bellies might think so.
I see what you mean. They are slightly different in that the hold is "west" of 22N on the L30 and right over the airport on the L34, neither of which is accurate. But other than that and the location of the frequency box for FJC, I don't see a difference. They both depict the hold at BILEY on the 298-degree FJC radial.
Both the L30 and L29 show that 6 over instead of under. The L34 shows it under which is the norm and how The Chart Users Guide depicts it. T route MEA’s supposedly guarantee Communication and I’m assuming they do it based on adequate Radio comm. You’re from around there, how’s the Radio with Wilkes-Barre Approach along that segement?
The guy drawing the 29 and the 30 seems to have had 22N on his mind. He centered the inbound leg on the airport. On the 34 it’s relation to BILEY is typical. There just happened to be an airport there.
Yes, and it is typical to move the depiction to avoid the over-write as in L-30. The atypical one to me is L-34 where the holding pattern is superimposed over the airport.
But in both cases the holding pattern picture is not where the holding pattern actually is, and that is typical. That's why I said there really isn't any difference between the chart snippets - substantive difference, that is. There should be no confusion either way.
Yeah. I still think it’s sloppy work to have aligned the inbound leg with center of the Airport symbol. It could have been moved down just a tad, aligned with the extension of the radial and kept green and gray from touching. But I don’t think the green and grey touching on the L34 depiction is a problem. If it had been done that way on the other charts I doubt if there would have been any confusion that it was BILEY and started this. What say you @dtuuri ?
Me? I haven't flown that area in over 20 years since when I had an Arner check me out in a Twin Comanche for insurance purposes. I think the airport is his father's namesake.
I say L-30 would only confuse "Direct to's". Everybody else knows not to hold at an airport.
There are series of valleys. AVP is nestled in the valley up against a mountain (not really that steep) but you can get a little low and get lost com pretty easily as you stray from the field. Especially to the south or south west
Hello op, thursday has come and gone - how did you get on ?
Oh God. This is getting ridiculous. I feel bad. So goto bed Wednesday. More prepared. Calmer. Weather was going to be perfect. Ceilings 10k, wind light variable. Vis great. Checkride planned for 1. I’m at work for half day so I send a text at 1030 confirming to DPE. Get a call 5 min later from my CFI, “did he call you. I just got off the phone with him. He was frantic, uncle passed away 5 min ago. He has to cancel.” Arrrgghh!!!! Of course I feel bad and my anger is selfish. But that day was the perfect day!!! I was despondent. But got over it. Took brother in laws and their little kids for a short ride for fun. Next window he had was Sunday but I haven’t heard from him and don’t expect to, but that is a potential good weather window. Then he is away for Citation training for a week In Jan. Sigh. Keep the faith. Committed to finishing this!! But not committed to buying a freshly dated Chart Supplement and some up for date paper charts!!!
I feel your frustration. In regard to IFR practice and prep including post qualification maintaining proficiency economically I have found huge value in pilotedge. I havent posted enough to post a url, but google will find the site for you. so you need a pc capable of running xplane 11. pilotedge have an excellent series of free ifr (and vfr) workshops and membership means you can do ther i-ratings tests. After you pass all of those you will be in a good place for ifr flying and ATC.
Yeah, welcome to aviation, but you already know this. Condolences to your DPE if he is following this. You will get there benyflyguy, patience.
its kinda funny. My wife reminded me that I had the same issue with my ppl. I went to a flight school in summer between junior and senior year of college in Daytona for training. I was all set to do my long XC down there when wild fires set in a smoke later that reduced vis for seemingly forever. I could get nothing else done. So I had to come home and finish here. I was so close. But had to change plane I trained in. 172 to pa-28. New CFI, 2 actually. Had to do on weekends- took a few extra months instead of days. I should be used to this!!
I just passed my IFR checkride today, out of KHWD, great weather (no gale winds as on Monday). By the way I was convinced I did not pass, made many small errors, I guess none of the errors were disqualifying, I think I was lucky to find a very tolerant DPE. (My DPE commutes to airport by bike, very nice and expensive carbon bike !!). Nice way to start 2019!
^^^^WWWWOOOOOOO!!! Welcome to the brotherhood of the cloud-borers.
Many congratulations. If your DPE passed you, you met the standard.
Never forget that the Instrument rating is a license to learn!