Flying long haul privately

mandm

mandm

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Michael
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Anyone know how to find reasonable long haul private flights?
 
Do you mean private charter? If your dates are flexible, look at empty legs. Sometimes you can get really cheap private flights that way. I once booked a flight from the Canadian Prairies to Arizona for less than $10k. Wasn't for me, was for a client of mine but that was pretty cheap.
 
Well since you threw the word "reasonable" in there, could you define what you think is reasonable?

I don't presume to know what someone else might consider reasonable. But of course a flight from Chicago to Hong Kong is going to require a pretty big (expensive) airplane, assuming you want to go non-stop. Something like a Global or a larger Gulfstream.

Like any charter, just talk to a charter broker. They'll see what the different options are and you can pick from there.

If you're not familiar with the charter world, you may find the prices to be a lot more than you first imagined.
 
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I’ve talked to a few brokers before and the prices varied quite a bit, some were almost double what others were for the same aircraft type and route (150k-300k), so wondering if anyone knew how to find what the market rate is vs someone just hoping for a payday.
 
Hang 4 said:
For just you or a bunch of folks? If it's just you, a business class ticket with lay flat bed will be cheaper.
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It's been my experience that anyone asking about charter flights isn't interested in the cheapest option (for various reasons). Airlines are virtually always the cheapest option.
 
mandm said:
I’ve talked to a few brokers before and the prices varied quite a bit, some were almost double what others were for the same aircraft type and route (150k-300k), so wondering if anyone knew how to find what the market rate is vs someone just hoping for a payday.
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Is there really a "market rate"? Charter flights, especially long range ones like this, are a pretty niche product where pricing would seem to be extremely case-by-case and highly variable.
 
RussR said:
It's been my experience that anyone asking about charter flights isn't interested in the cheapest option (for various reasons). Airlines are virtually always the cheapest option.
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Cost can get close when you are paying for several people, on some routes.

Depending on the private jet, it can be far more comfortable in a lie flat commercial than the reclining seat on the jet for a long flight. I regularly turned down my client’s offer to take the company’s Gulfstream to Europe with 10 people and flew business class
 
RussR said:
Is there really a "market rate"? Charter flights, especially long range ones like this, are a pretty niche product where pricing would seem to be extremely case-by-case and highly variable.
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What’s your best price ;) haha
 
Like someone earlier asked, define reasonable? You won't be able to do it for under $100k, and that would be for a clapped out G4 that will need at least 1 fuel stop.
 
The only time I knew anyone that wanted to do something like that, it was the final item on their bucket list.
Are you ok?
 
You could probably talk our 135 to take you there. I think it's only 9 or 10 stops in the PC12. Reckon 2.5k/hr x say 35 hrs each way plus expenses (crew daily rate, crew hotel/meals, landing & customs fees etc). So that takes us to 185-195ish probably. for that money take @Dave Theisen 's 7x.

But for an epic trip like that, I'd give you my discounted daily rate.
 
Hang 4 said:
Cost can get close when you are paying for several people, on some routes.

Depending on the private jet, it can be far more comfortable in a lie flat commercial than the reclining seat on the jet for a long flight. I regularly turned down my client’s offer to take the company’s Gulfstream to Europe with 10 people and flew business class
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There's also the expectation that you'll be talking to people or working on the company jet.
When you fly commercial -- you're on your own. You get to put the seat back, have a drink or two and go to sleep :)
 
mandm said:
I’ve talked to a few brokers before and the prices varied quite a bit, some were almost double what others were for the same aircraft type and route (150k-300k), so wondering if anyone knew how to find what the market rate is vs someone just hoping for a payday.
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Prices varied because they knew you were just joking my bet. If you were serious you'd of booked already.
 
JOhnH said:
I agree.

I don't follow. How can you book before inquiring. Just because someone is rich and can afford anything doesn't mean they are willing to pay anything anyone asks.
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If you’re rich you would know exactly how much private charters cost. Maybe not LA to HK but certainly NY to LA.

Just recently a guy wanted a yacht charter for a day in Miami for 20 guests. His budget 2K to 4K. He got laughed at too.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
That's a six-figure trip. So what is "reasonable"?

How many people and how much stuff going?
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Something like this is for a relocation, with tons of luggage in tow, and bringing dogs on board to avoid those headaches that follow via commercial. I know for example you can do US to Europe for 50k. Asia is probably 2.5 times the distance so something around 100-120k sounds in line. 300k obviously does not.
 
mandm said:
Something like this is for a relocation, with tons of luggage in tow, and bringing dogs on board to avoid those headaches that follow via commercial. I know for example you can do US to Europe for 50k. Asia is probably 2.5 times the distance so something around 100-120k sounds in line. 300k obviously does not.
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Sounds like you answered your question.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Sounds like you answered your question.
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I thought maybe we had someone on here in the business that could chime in, as with all aspects of aviation, someone usually chimes in, after the chit chat and a few punches of course, and wows me with their knowledge. That’s why I like this forum. ;)
 
mandm said:
Something like this is for a relocation, with tons of luggage in tow, and bringing dogs on board to avoid those headaches that follow via commercial. I know for example you can do US to Europe for 50k. Asia is probably 2.5 times the distance so something around 100-120k sounds in line. 300k obviously does not.
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Maybe the distance is 2.5 times, but unless you want to make a fuel stop or 2, you probably need a bigger plane which means much more than 2.5 times the cost.

It would help if you included a few more specifics. Something like "What is a good ballpark number for a one way charter from Chicago to Hong Kong for 2 people and 2 golden retrievers, plus 300 pounds* of luggage? Non-stop is preferred but one stop would be okay." And whatever other preferences you have - cabin height, catering options, seat layout, etc.

* I know 300 pounds isn't a literal "ton" of luggage, but it's a lot. If you actually meant "tons" of luggage, well then you're talking a whole other class and cost of airplane.
 
RussR said:
Maybe the distance is 2.5 times, but unless you want to make a fuel stop or 2, you probably need a bigger plane which means much more than 2.5 times the cost.

It would help if you included a few more specifics. Something like "What is a good ballpark number for a one way charter from Chicago to Hong Kong for 2 people and 2 golden retrievers, plus 300 pounds* of luggage? Non-stop is preferred but one stop would be okay." And whatever other preferences you have - cabin height, catering options, seat layout, etc.

* I know 300 pounds isn't a literal "ton" of luggage, but it's a lot. If you actually meant "tons" of luggage, well then you're talking a whole other class and cost of airplane.
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I’m talking a G7 ;)
 
Find a charter broker, explain what you are looking for. See if he can hook you up with a return trip where a charter is being flown one way, and you want to buy the return leg (which sometimes goes unsold or only a portion can be sold).

With some perseverance deals can be had.
 
mandm said:
I’ve talked to a few brokers before and the prices varied quite a bit, some were almost double what others were for the same aircraft type and route (150k-300k), so wondering if anyone knew how to find what the market rate is vs someone just hoping for a payday.
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First of all... Skip the brokers. You know enough about aviation to know what you want, roughly. Why add a middleman? Go straight to the operator, it'll save you money.

Go here: https://www.faa.gov/about/officeorg...ted-aircraft-operators-legal-part-135-holders

Download the Excel file with the list of legal Part 135 aircraft. Filter it down by aircraft type, to those types that can complete your mission. And then, start contacting them, starting with the ones closest to you - No sense in adding repositioning costs on top of it all.

And, let them know how flexible you can be. Maybe ask for a quote AND ask about empty legs. Tell them you're really looking for an empty leg if possible, and keep in touch with them.

mandm said:
Something like this is for a relocation, with tons of luggage in tow, and bringing dogs on board to avoid those headaches that follow via commercial. I know for example you can do US to Europe for 50k. Asia is probably 2.5 times the distance so something around 100-120k sounds in line. 300k obviously does not.
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Hmmm. Just luggage? Or are you looking for an airborne moving van?

But yes, @RussR's point about fuel stops is a valid one. While you could probably do the trip in a CJ4 if you made enough hops, what you're looking for is an operator that has approval (via OpSpec) to operate worldwide. You're not going to find that at operators that don't have a "big plane", so the operators of the smaller planes don't have that approval.

Frankly, $300K is probably a bargain if you're not taking an empty leg.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Frankly, $300K is probably a bargain if you're not taking an empty leg.
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"$300k is probably a bargain".... we really need the "I'm gonna hurl" emoji.

Sounds like a bad ass trip!! but man... That is one that I could never do. Long before I wrote a check like that I'd be loading my family and dogs up on a rowboat, set sail from Burnham Harbor in Chicago, row my way through Lake Michigan through a series of tributary rivers, then down the mississippi, out the gulf of mexico and use a compass and paper charts to navigate my my way to Asia. Maybe 18 months later my bloated, water logged body would wash up on the shores of Hong Kong... And I'd still prefer that outcome to paying $300k for 20 hours in the sky!

That said -- mandm, if you do this trip you gotta let us know so we can live vicariously through you!
 
Will let you know for sure and I’ve had several quotes in the 100s range. Haven’t found one for 300k yet (actually highest was like 256k) so you can be a broker for 300k and book the 256k and keep the difference if someone thinks 300k is the norm ;) my quotes were all on my terms and dates as well.
 
I’m just curious, did you price Amalfi Jets? Where did they come in? I hear a lot about them, I’m just curious how competitive their price was compared to others.
 
flyingpreacher said:
I’m just curious, did you price Amalfi Jets? Where did they come in? I hear a lot about them, I’m just curious how competitive their price was compared to others.
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Tell him you are calling for McKenna...

Unpopular opinion: I think their videos are pretty funny parodies of stereotypical rich people behavior and too many people get wrapped around the axel because they are "fake". I think it's obvious they are parody and think they are funny because I don't take them any more seriously than an Adam Sandler movie.
 
mandm said:
Will let you know for sure and I’ve had several quotes in the 100s range. Haven’t found one for 300k yet (actually highest was like 256k) so you can be a broker for 300k and book the 256k and keep the difference if someone thinks 300k is the norm ;) my quotes were all on my terms and dates as well.
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They must be better at selling empty legs than I give them credit for on the bigger jets.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They must be better at selling empty legs than I give them credit for on the bigger jets.
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I used to work for a major trucking company. We often had a full trailer go from West Coast to East Coast and vice versa. The company had a whole department of sales people lining up loads for the return trip so they didn't have to dead-head. I suspect the bigger air charter companies do the same thing.
 
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