Flight Following without a destination airport

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plunenfeld

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alphaGeek
Normally when I ask for flight following (flying VFR) I have a clear destination airport in mind:
"Magu Approach, Cessna XXX 5 miles northeast Camarillo @ 3,500 for 5,500 to El Monte"

But, how should I ask for flight following if I do NOT have a destination in mind. For example, a sightseeing flight where I want to fly _towards_ a spot (maybe an airport, maybe not) and then just turn around and come back.

Scenario #1: I want to fly from KCMA to KEMT, but NOT to land. I'm afraid if I request flight following to KEMT, they are going to try and pass me off to the Tower for landing when I just want flight following for traffic advisories and possible airspace transits.

Scenario #2: I fly from KCMA to KEMT (but no landing) and now want to request flight following back home to KCMA to land. How do I request the 'turn around' and altitude change so as not to confuse everyone?

Scenario #3: I want to fly up the coast (say from KCMA toward and over KSBA) but then turn around before KVBG and head home. How would I ask for flight following?

Thank you so much!
 
Others here are certainly more experienced than me, but I have done this before. Rather than give a destination, I just provided a quick description of the flight, and it all worked out. It went something like this.

Me: PHX Approach, VFR request.

PHX Approach: Say request

Me: Phoenix Approach, Bugsmasher 12345 is 6 miles south of KCHD 3,000', request flight following for short scenic flight out around the Superstitions (this is a well known mountain range just East of Phoenix) and then back to Chandler.

PHX Approach: Bugsmasher 12345, Squawk 4567, ....

I was a little unsure of how it would go, but it worked just fine.
 
Depends on the controller sometimes; I've had them get flustered without a destination, as in "I'll be wandering around the Eastern Shore, here and there, at or below 3K' for a while. . ." Other times, no worries, get a squawk and all is good. Once ATC insisted on a destination, but that was unusual. It's hit or miss, and mostly I no longer bother with VFR flight following.
 
azpilot said:
Others here are certainly more experienced than me, but I have done this before. Rather than give a destination, I just provided a quick description of the flight, and it all worked out. It went something like this.

Me: PHX Approach, VFR request.

PHX Approach: Say request

Me: Phoenix Approach, Bugsmasher 12345 is 6 miles south of KCHD 3,000', request flight following for short scenic flight out around the Superstitions (this is a well known mountain range just East of Phoenix) and then back to Chandler.

PHX Approach: Bugsmasher 12345, Squawk 4567, ....

I was a little unsure of how it would go, but it worked just fine.
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Basically that.

Just make sure your point is known to ATC, or you have a heading and distance from a known point you can give them
 
That is common here in the Bay Area for those on the "Bay Tour" as we depart, go fly for a while around the Bay Area for sight seeing then back home. They will just put the airport you are returning to as your destination, the rest is plain ol english communication. There is no flight plan or path that is spit out between your departure and destination when they enter the info, they just wanna know what to expect from ya regarding route of flight.

You can go figure eights and loopty loops all the way there as well...they just wanna know.

"SoCal, Skylane 12345..gonna head up towards Santa Barbra then back to Camarillo"

Remember, you are on VFR flight following...you can fly where you want and unless given a restriction of some sort are free to do what you want when you want. They just wanna know what to expect so they can anticipate your actions in regards to other traffic.

The only thing you "should" advise ATC is when you change altitudes (per AIM...note: advise, NOT request)...you can head anywhere you want...if they have a question as to your intentions, they will ask or tel ya if they need something else from you.

Here is a call I made once..."NorCal, Sklyane 12345, change of plans, we are gonna head towards Watsonville and do some low maneuvers...going whale watching"..."Roger, have fun"...Flight Following is not like an IFR Flight Plan where you need a clearance to deviate.
 
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We do it quite often in the mapping world. Just say in plain English what you want and they should give you a code. When you're ready to return home give them another shout and say where you're going.
 
Todd82 said:
We do it quite often in the mapping world. Just say in plain English what you want and they should give you a code. When you're ready to return home give them another shout and say where you're going.
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Yep, this worked even when I took my nephew flightseeing to his high school under the Charlotte Bravo, in and out of Monroe.
 
plunenfeld said:
Scenario #2: I fly from KCMA to KEMT (but no landing) and now want to request flight following back home to KCMA to land. How do I request the 'turn around' and altitude change so as not to confuse everyone?
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“Bugsmasher 123, request flight following for sightseeing near El Monte.”

Or replace “sightseeing” with “maneuvering” if that’s what you have in mind
 
If I am not leaving the local ATC sector, then I just ask the tower for local flight following. The tower here does have a problem entering "sight seeing" into the computer if I am going north to another ATC sector, so I usually give a destination airport and then let the controller for that sector know that I am going to return to my starting point.

It was quite cold here last Sunday ~10°C and I wondered how high I could get in my Cherokee. The tower had no trouble inputting a destination of GVO VOR, but ATC was a bit confused even when I checked in. I explained what I was trying to do and we worked it out.

For the record, 12,800' was as high as I could go even though it was -20°C up there.
 
Hi.
Always have a destination, controllers need to know what to expect. The destination can be your starting airport and you tell them what / where you want to go / do. Give them points on the chart that they can enter into the system, like VFR points or airports...
You can always change the destination, assuming the controllers can accommodate, or cancel FF.
 
I have never done this, but on a center tour, the controllers said--even requested--that you can be on flight following even if you're just practicing maneuvers. Just tell them you're 10 miles west of blah blah field and you're going to be practicing maneuvers for a while. They said it's very helpful just to know who you are, what you're doing, and be able to talk to you.
 
Lindberg said:
I have never done this, but on a center tour, the controllers said--even requested--that you can be on flight following even if you're just practicing maneuvers.
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Exactly...they are a second set of eyes for you regardless of what you are doing and most likely WANT to be talking to you. While some simply prefer not to use FF, too many pilots have a perception that FF is only for point A to B long XC trips and that is not the case at all. If I am not talking to Tower or on CTAF, I am on FF virtually every flight local or not.
 
As a student, we always called the nearby Delta for flight following every time we left the pattern, even if only to request flight following for "maneuvers in the North practice area." Sometimes they would ask us to stay above or below a certain altitude, sometimes not. But it's nice to have another set of eyes checking on you.
 
plunenfeld said:
Normally when I ask for flight following (flying VFR) I have a clear destination airport in mind:
"Magu Approach, Cessna XXX 5 miles northeast Camarillo @ 3,500 for 5,500 to El Monte"

But, how should I ask for flight following if I do NOT have a destination in mind. For example, a sightseeing flight where I want to fly _towards_ a spot (maybe an airport, maybe not) and then just turn around and come back.

Scenario #1: I want to fly from KCMA to KEMT, but NOT to land. I'm afraid if I request flight following to KEMT, they are going to try and pass me off to the Tower for landing when I just want flight following for traffic advisories and possible airspace transits.

Scenario #2: I fly from KCMA to KEMT (but no landing) and now want to request flight following back home to KCMA to land. How do I request the 'turn around' and altitude change so as not to confuse everyone?

Scenario #3: I want to fly up the coast (say from KCMA toward and over KSBA) but then turn around before KVBG and head home. How would I ask for flight following?

Thank you so much!
Click to expand...

The important thing is for ATC to be aware of you and your intentions. You do not want to be the mystery target in this scenario: "Bugsmasher 1234X traffic your twelve o'clock your altitude. We're not talking to him."

Bob
 
When I first started flying with my partner, he always requested "VFR traffic advisories" and I always thought it was strange, so like any pilot would, I tried to research why he would say that rather then, you know, ask him or something. The AIM talks about "VFR traffic advisories" as a service offered depending on workload to VFR aircraft in a radar environment. 4-2-3 even goes so far as to list it as an example of initial contact with an ARTCC:

Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V−F−R traffic advisories​

Even in the glossary, "FLIGHT FOLLOWING" is followed by "(See TRAFFIC ADVISORIES)".

This is probably picking a seriously inconsequential nit, but what I like about this phrase is that it does not imply that I'm flying anywhere; it simply indicates on initial contact that I want you to watch out for me. My subsequent transmission would say something along the lines of what I'm doing (maneuvering, enroute to KXYZ, lakeshore tour, etc). When I'm going to encroach on some airspace or want to overfly a controlled field, I just tell them that (like Bob said) - "N62TB request Bravo clearance 3000' northbound over Hopkins. We're going to turn right at the lakeshore, descend to 2000, turn around abeam of Burke, and then reverse course for a touch and go at Hopkins, then back to Skypark".

Incidentally, if you haven't flown over a busy Bravo airport at night, I highly recommend it.
 
ChrisK said:
When I first started flying with my partner, he always requested "VFR traffic advisories" and I always thought it was strange, so like any pilot would, I tried to research why he would say that rather then, you know, ask him or something. The AIM talks about "VFR traffic advisories" as a service offered depending on workload to VFR aircraft in a radar environment. 4-2-3 even goes so far as to list it as an example of initial contact with an ARTCC:

Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V−F−R traffic advisories​

Even in the glossary, "FLIGHT FOLLOWING" is followed by "(See TRAFFIC ADVISORIES)".
Click to expand...

As I understand it "Traffic Advisories" is the "correct" terminology and "Flight Following" back in the day was something completely different when radar coverage was much less than what it is now these day. However, that old "Flight Following" reporting is no longer a thing and that term is now indeed synonymous with Traffic Advisories per the Pilot/Controller Glossary.

Every once in is while an ol timer will pop up and scream "Its NOT Flight Following!"...when it really is now and completely acceptable and common phraseology to request.
 
Hank S said:
As a student, we always called the nearby Delta for flight following every time we left the pattern, even if only to request flight following for "maneuvers in the North practice area." Sometimes they would ask us to stay above or below a certain altitude, sometimes not. But it's nice to have another set of eyes checking on you.
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Yep. I did this many times as a student. Often I would be in the practice area, practicing maneuvers, tuned to Approach, and hear a call-out to another aircraft that was almost certainly me. So I would call them up and announce that I thought I might have been "that aircraft", that I was practicing maneuvers near whatever landmark, and that they were welcome to give me a squawk code (not in those words, of course, but that was the gist of it). They were always happy to oblige, and as others have said, it was nice to have a second set of eyes looking out for me.
 
I can't remember exactly where this was, but I recall somewhere in one of the many practice written tests I took for the instrument rating in the past two years there was a reference to "radar flight following" as an IFR service. Maybe something like:

Q: If ATC advises that radar service is terminated, what does that mean?
A: Radar flight following is no longer being provided and the pilot should resume normal position reports.

But I can't find any current reference to "flight following" being anything but a direct synonym for "VFR advisories." So whatever may have been true in the past, they mean the same thing today.
 
I told ground control/CD at RIC one day I wanted to make some passes over Kings Dominion for the kids (it was winter and the park was closed) and then head on home. They gave me a squawk and a clearance. Departure told me to report Kings Dominion in sight after takeoff.
 
Just tell them what you want and they’ll help you. “Flight following” is just really a traffic advisory service. Knowing your destination helps so the controllers have a rough idea of where you’re going and indeed if you suddenly veer off course you’ll likely get asked what’s going on.

If you want to fly in circles for an hour over a spot and just want them to tell you if someone comes close just ask for that and if they can they’ll help. They’ll likely appreciate the heads up so they know what you’re up to and can route their IFR traffic accordingly.
 
Yep, I do it often if I'm doing manuvers, particularly if I'm solo and I don't have an extra set of eyes outside. I think ATC would much rather know what who I am and what I'm doing so they can advise inbound traffic and let me know if someone else is about to wrinkle my can.
 
flyingron said:
I told ground control/CD at RIC one day I wanted to make some passes over Kings Dominion for the kids (it was winter and the park was closed) and then head on home. They gave me a squawk and a clearance. Departure told me to report Kings Dominion in sight after takeoff.
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Before or after 9-11? Might be interesting if ya did it after. Even if it were closed.
 
I was still based at IAD, so it must have been before 9/11. I was at VKX on 9/11.

Still, I don't think it would be a problem. It ain't Disney.
 
flyingron said:
I was still based at IAD, so it must have been before 9/11. I was at VKX on 9/11.

Still, I don't think it would be a problem. It ain't Disney.
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Unless they suspect you of scoping it out. Maybe not though, at least you're talking with them anyway.
 
I don't need flight following to "scope it out." The thing is sitting in uncontrolled airspace.
 
My first flight with a passenger after getting my license was a tour with my father. We actually flew out of CMA, so we had to do the dance in the air with Mugu. I told him what I wanted (flight following for a round trip over SMO and back to CMA inland) and they set something up with a squawk and it was pretty seamless. Remember, SoCal are much, much more accommodating with FF than Mugu are (that's not really their fault - they have one position and a lot of training in the area) so your turn around shouldn't really be an issue.
 
You: 123AB Cessna 172 10 West pudunk 4000 request traffic advisories
ATC: Squak 3456, say destination.
You: KCMA after some site seeing.
 
Practicing procedure turns over a vor can evoke many questions, but they are very accommodating and helpful in picking an altitude to stay out of the way.
 
plunenfeld said:
Normally when I ask for flight following (flying VFR) I have a clear destination airport in mind:
"Magu Approach, Cessna XXX 5 miles northeast Camarillo @ 3,500 for 5,500 to El Monte"

But, how should I ask for flight following if I do NOT have a destination in mind. For example, a sightseeing flight where I want to fly _towards_ a spot (maybe an airport, maybe not) and then just turn around and come back.

Scenario #1: I want to fly from KCMA to KEMT, but NOT to land. I'm afraid if I request flight following to KEMT, they are going to try and pass me off to the Tower for landing when I just want flight following for traffic advisories and possible airspace transits.

Scenario #2: I fly from KCMA to KEMT (but no landing) and now want to request flight following back home to KCMA to land. How do I request the 'turn around' and altitude change so as not to confuse everyone?

Scenario #3: I want to fly up the coast (say from KCMA toward and over KSBA) but then turn around before KVBG and head home. How would I ask for flight following?

Thank you so much!
Click to expand...

What we call "flight following," the FAA calls "Radar Assistance to VFR Aircraft" (AIM 4-1-17). The destination is not important.

Bob Gardner
 
Much of what was said already, just make your point clear. I'm not familiar with the airspace you mentioned, but if it is controlled airspace then you might want to add on that you will remain clear of any controlled airspace to avoid a hand off. Once I was on flight following and was descending to check out the spiral jetty in Salt Lake, and my controller came on warning me that she was going to lose me if I continued my descent. Just communication all about is a good thing if you are with a controller. I did get a few pictures regardless, just not from lake level!
 
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