Failure in flight rivew !

If, due to unsatisfactory performance, the instructor declines to provide a logbook endorsement certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review, why wouldn't you call that 'failing the flight review'?

Call it a failure if you want, but I can assure you that flight instructors can and will refuse to sign off a Flight Review if they aren't comfortable with the pilot's performance. I'm a CFI, and I've done it. Usually doesn't go well, at least at first. Maybe its because pilots don't take reviews seriously, or they've had a lot of easy sign-offs in the past, or they refuse to acknowledge their skills have lapsed. I even had one after porpoising his 182 down the runway tell me well I'm still taking that IFR trip across the country next week, I don't care if you sign off the FR and the IPC or not. I told him that's fine, when you crash and kill yourself and your wife it won't be under my signature.

There is a lot of responsibility and liability for CFI's, and good ones don't take that lightly. I'm sure there are bad apples as well, only interested in hours and money.
 
in fact I replaced CFI in school for charging me 30 min ground for changing airplans because the first airplane had problem and they knew about it and never told the students at that time!
And when I did the precheck I found the lights not working and from locking the airplane into grapping the other key for the other airplane
She added 30 min of charge on my Depit card!
I don’t believe its fare !
You’re not going to get a sympathetic audience until your English(or your spelling) improves. But, I would challenge the 30 min charge with the school. Most places are reasonable if you approach them with the right attitude.
 
Call it a failure if you want, but I can assure you that flight instructors can and will refuse to sign off a Flight Review if they aren't comfortable with the pilot's performance. I'm a CFI, and I've done it. Usually doesn't go well, at least at first. Maybe its because pilots don't take reviews seriously, or they've had a lot of easy sign-offs in the past, or they refuse to acknowledge their skills have lapsed. I even had one after porpoising his 182 down the runway tell me well I'm still taking that IFR trip across the country next week, I don't care if you sign off the FR and the IPC or not. I told him that's fine, when you crash and kill yourself and your wife it won't be under my signature.

There is a lot of responsibility and liability for CFI's, and good ones don't take that lightly. I'm sure there are bad apples as well, only interested in hours and money.
So to ask the ATC to repeat the commend consider not safe? And doing such thing you will not sign off the guy?
Where is that in FAA regulations?
 
Did the first guy say he would sign off on your flight review if you received additional training on ATC procedures?

The second one, if their aircraft was defective, you shouldn't be charged for it.
 
You’re not going to get a sympathetic audience until your English(or your spelling) improves. But, I would challenge the 30 min charge with the school. Most places are reasonable if you approach them with the right attitude.
So many pilots out there their English worse than me, specially if you go fly in China or any other places !

I was super nice to my CFI in fact I invited her with her family to meet my family and we had dinner together and spent all day in our home!
And the week after she forget all that and charged me extra money without even explaining to me about that extra$$

I will keep saying this: yes flying is expensive but there guys there make it even more expensive !

And I had CFI 3 years ago was my first CFI he made me drive all the way to the airport 45 min of driving time and called me with careless saying.. I forget about you and I am not able to come in!

My wife got mad after leaving my kids and my wife and my work and spent 45 min back and forth doing nothing!
That is call kidy act!
 
What?
If you think this is trolling then you maybe agree about other CFIs when they scams people

Also you agree about schools renting ****y airplanes !
And at the end you don't like anybody expose scammers because you like them for a reason!

I lost $$$$ time and family time and work becaue of those scammers and you are hear try to make us liers here???
What a person you are
Sorry for my language
But scammers everywhere!
 
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Did the first guy say he would sign off on your flight review if you received additional training on ATC procedures?

The second one, if their aircraft was defective, you shouldn't be charged for it.
The first Guy said he wanted me to to fly another 2 hours or so then he can sign me

So I had hack ride ans was signed off before and my ATC was wors than this time but my old CFI never told me , I can't ask the ATC to repeat it slowly!

There is different between asking the ATC to repeat it at anytime anywhere
And been bad on ATC mean you can't handel radio communications!

The main thing made that Guy not signing me off is :
I wanted to ask the GOD at the ATC to repeat what he says when we were on the ground!

And one time when we were on out route inbound for landing

So now I have clear Idea that
Its prohibit to ask the ATC to repeat anything instead you should guess it or do what you thing is right !!!!!
Dose that looks right ?
Thank you for your inputs
 
So to ask the ATC to repeat the commend consider not safe? And doing such thing you will not sign off the guy?
Where is that in FAA regulations?

I wasn't necessarily commenting on your situation. I wasn't there.
 
Text forums like this one are not the best for communicating... but there are things about your story that make me think these CFI's are not just out to scam you out of money.

An open door is not an emergency. Having multiple runways should not make an airport too complicated for a PP. Being able to interact with ATC at a towered airport is a necessary skill for a PP. If you load a 152 to max gross on a hot day, this does not mean that the engine can be expected to overheat. Stalling a 152 will not break the aircraft, even at max gross on a hot day.
...And most relevant to this discussion: If you take a lesson with a CFI, you have received a service, and need to pay the school for the rental and the CFI for his or her time, regardless of whether the lesson worked out the way you'd hoped. Whether they've met your family is likewise irrelevant.

You seem to be reacting emotionally and defensively to people's responses here on this forum, so I wonder whether you reacted similarly with your CFI's or with ATC. You yourself said "But the problem happened WHEN I WAS MAD" (emphasis yours). Did you get argumentative with your CFI's in the cockpit, as you are now getting argumentative with us? Flying is more than just maneuvers. Attitude and professionalism also matters, CFI's are trained to look for it, and yes, it matters to the FAA too.

If you're dissatisfied with the school's service, take it up with the school's chief pilot or manager. Ask for clarity about how CFI's charge for their time, or about what is their policy about charging time on a plane that turns out to have mechanical problems. Be calm, measured, reasonable, professional. Absorb the answers.

So now I have clear Idea that
Its prohibit to ask the ATC to repeat anything instead you should guess it or do what you thing is right !!!!!
Dose that looks right ?

No one here suggested that it is not OK to ask ATC to repeat something. Of course it is OK to ask. You seem to have invented this narrative, out of anger.
 
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Omar, go back to the first CFI and have him or her sign you off for the ground portion of the flight review. He/She told you that you did well, so no reason you need to REPEAT it. AND you paid for it!
 
What?
If you think this is trolling then you maybe agree about other CFIs when they scams people

Also you agree about schools renting ****y airplanes !
And at the end you don't like anybody expose scammers because you like them for a reason!

I lost $$$$ time and family time and work becaue of those scammers and you are hear try to make us liers here???
What a person you are
Sorry for my language
But scammers everywhere!

lol
 
Wow. Really? Give the guy a break. I bet his English is better than your command of his native language.
I’m not required to speak his native language to fly here, or elsewhere.
 
I appreciate all inputs and I am sure without advises from others problem will get worse!
Its great to be between such a nice people in this web

I also come up with steps to correct or at lease to not fail in the same trap again!
1- I must looking for CFI that I know as friend that I can put my trust on him or her..

2-fly 4 hours every month is MUST ! And if money is issue then stop flying till I am full with $$$$$ find pilot can take me with him to get back into the mode!

3-buying airplane is MUST and jumping from school to another cause more money + more flight checks + more scammers
Even partnership is good since its my own plane, my own world, don't have to pay more or less based on school rating!
Maybe sale my car, buy smaller car and invest in 172 and finance the rest! Or buy cheap one seat ultralight airplane with fold in wings!

And stay away from strangers and schools!
 
I’m not required to speak his native language to fly here, or elsewhere.

The point here: there are nobody have 100% flying skills or ATC ..
But when you don't Understand something, maybe becaue of radio problem, language problem, etc.. then there is no problem to call the ATC and ask to repeat it! It happen even in the airforce !

But the problem when I say you can't fly because you don't speak English in 200miles per hour speed then its ...let you chose the answer yourself !
 
Omar, go back to the first CFI and have him or her sign you off for the ground portion of the flight review. He/She told you that you did well, so no reason you need to REPEAT it. AND you paid for it!

Are you a CFI? If someone came to me and said, “Bob down the street signed me off for the ground, so I just need the flight portion” I would politely decline.
 
The point here: there are nobody have 100% flying skills or ATC ..
But when you don't Understand something, maybe becaue of radio problem, language problem, etc.. then there is no problem to call the ATC and ask to repeat it! It happen even in the airforce !


But the problem when I say you can't fly because you don't speak English in 200miles per hour speed then its ...let you chose the answer yourself !

I’ve instructed foreign students. There’s a threshold for what’s acceptable in communications and the CFI gets to make that determination during a FR. If that was why he/she didn’t pass you, they should’ve debriefed it thoroughly and left you with no questions. But it isn’t beyond reason to suspect that the CFI was pleased with your flying but not with your communication. If you think it was a fluke, try a different school and explain to them your circumstances in the initial meeting.
 
I’ve instructed foreign students. There’s a threshold for what’s acceptable in communications and the CFI gets to make that determination during a FR. If that was why he/she didn’t pass you, they should’ve debriefed it thoroughly and left you with no questions. But it isn’t beyond reason to suspect that the CFI was pleased with your flying but not with your communication. If you think it was a fluke, try a different school and explain to them your circumstances in the initial meeting.
Well he explained to me that you are holding short and waiting for the ATC clearance to pass the runway
When the ATC cleared you to pass the runway, you must go without any delay.. so in my case I called the ATC trying to make him repeat what he have just said

Then my CFI took the throtall and taxing the plane with mad face!
So my question was can I ask the ATC to repeat the commend ? Anytime anywhere?
Or its not allowed
Plus he charged me one hour ground
Plus one hour flight
Plus one hour random talk after flight
And that comes to $350
And I walked home with nothing in my logbook!
 
Omar, you can't afford to fly now, how are you going to afford an airplane? You have a wife and 3(?) kids, they are very expensive. I'm thinking you should look for a club with an inexpensive airplane and an instructor who will mentor you. Fly when you can, inexpensively, and work on what ever is bugging the instructor until you get it right. Thinking you can get signed off quickly after infrequently flying may not be realistic.
 
So if I understand this correctly, you were holding short of the runway, waiting to cross when you received clearance to cross, but since you were unclear on the instruction, you were attempting ask the controller to repeat it when the instructor took control and crossed the runway, right?

First of all, if you were uncertain of the clearance, I would hope you ask for clarification before you moved. Worst case in this situation is, the controller cancels your crossing clearance and you have to wait for the next opportunity to get you across. Sure, the controller might get frustrated with you, but nobody gets hurt.

When I fly as part of a crew of two, if both of us don’t agree on what the controller said, we ask for clarification, no matter how sure one of us might be.

Of course, wasn’t there, so I am not going to second guess your CFI’s assessment. If I was concerned with you communication skills, I would suggest another flight, but to put a two hour minimum on it seems a bit much.
 
Omar, you had the problem at Glendale, lol. I got chewed out 3 times by a controller there for screwing up my initial call to that tower. I forgot to tell him where I was. I was getting checked out in a new to me airplane, the instructor told me we would go there and warned me the controllers could be crabby. I'm not sure if I was thinking about that when I called him, but I screwed up. He had one other airplane in the pattern, a 152 and I was flying a 22T.

Anyway, I made the initial call, then realized I forgot to tell him where I was, he started immediately to give instructions to the 152. I turned to the instructor and said, "damn, I messed that up" he just shook his head and said "yes you did", any way the guy comes back to me, all ****ed off, and say " Cirrus xxxx you did not tell me where you are, I have no idea where you are, you need to be better on the radio!" So I call him back and say "Sorry about that, then redo the call with my location", he tells me to report the power plant. About 10 seconds later he lays into me again something like, " I expect good radio calls from you if you want to fly in my pattern...." he went on long enough for me to turn to the instructor and say "I guess I deserved this", the instructor said, "No one deserves this", I laughed, and said, "don't worry, I can take it". When he finished, I just said "got it."

So I get to the downwind, standard procedure I've been taught in the Cirrus is 120 knot indicated downwind, slow to 100 by abeam the numbers. If there is slower traffic ahead, I can slow to 90, with half flaps, but that is getting slow in a 22 and I prefer not to do it. The 152 was on final at this point. So I get to the downwind, with perfect radio calls I might add, and the guy calls me up again and says "Cirrus XXX, if you want to fly in my pattern, you need to SLOW DOWN!!" So I called him back, and said " I'm indicating 120 knots, I'll slow to 100 by the time I get to the numbers on downwind." He says, "I have a 152 in the pattern, and a Eurcoupe. The Eurcoupe was 10 miles away, I had him on adsb, and the 152 was on a short final, so I said to him "152 in sight". After that he left me alone, and started busting the Eurcoupe's balls, I felt bad for that guy, he got rattled and you could hear a female controller in the background, egging Mr. Personality controller on.

So the controllers in that tower have a reputation apparently and I guess the point of my story is it does no good to get mad at them, and no good to argue with them. Just be professional and do what you need to do. I'm thinking your instructor is up tight about those controllers which is why he got mad at you. If it happened the way you said, then that is not right, but I'm thinking there is more to his refusal to sign you off than that one incident. You have a wife and kids, instead of worrying about the cost, worry about being safe in all circumstances.

And yes, I did get signed off that day for the airplane, but that's another story.
 
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I don’t understand your post. Would you mind expanding on what you said?
Don't read too much into it. I had a wonderful father who loved me and raised me well, but he wasn't one to comfort me when things didn't go well,... very much a "suck it up, kid...try harder next time" kind of guy. You're attitude reminded me if him... not a bad thing. I have the same attitude towards myself and am grateful for it, and grateful to my father.
 
So if I understand this correctly, you were holding short of the runway, waiting to cross when you received clearance to cross, but since you were unclear on the instruction, you were attempting ask the controller to repeat it when the instructor took control and crossed the runway, right?

First of all, if you were uncertain of the clearance, I would hope you ask for clarification before you moved. Worst case in this situation is, the controller cancels your crossing clearance and you have to wait for the next opportunity to get you across. Sure, the controller might get frustrated with you, but nobody gets hurt.

When I fly as part of a crew of two, if both of us don’t agree on what the controller said, we ask for clarification, no matter how sure one of us might be.

Of course, wasn’t there, so I am not going to second guess your CFI’s assessment. If I was concerned with you communication skills, I would suggest another flight, but to put a two hour minimum on it seems a bit much.
Yes that was exactly what happened

He was in hurry to cross the runway, while I was about to call the comtroller
The other one when I was in my route inbound for landing and was not able to understand thr ATC when he said contact tow 2 miles out downwind
So I was about to call him and ask the repeat it slowly!
But the CFI told me to keep flying!

The problem I think was 1-due to radio noise {alot of noise like listening to AM radio with farway transmission}
2-the airport was new to me and the guy at the tower was almost like sleeping man in bed with 10 empty cans of beers around!
3-english not my mother language but I been living in US since 16 years, and worked with US army too
So I have no problem with English as I worked as English translator in GOV office 8 years during my 20s
 
And I walked home with nothing in my logbook!
You had ground and flight instruction and the CFI didn't log any of it for you?

If you received instruction it should be logged in accordance with 14 CFR 61.51(h). In fact, the CFI is REQUIRED to log the instruction-given in accordance with 14 CFR 61.189(a).

61.189 Flight instructor records.
(a) A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that instructor has given flight training or ground training.
.
If you successfully completed the ground portion of the flight review with your first CFI, he should endorse it as having been complete in accordance with 14 CFR 61.56 (a)(1).
.
61.56 Flight review.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:
(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and
 
I think the suggestion to join a club is a good one. See if you can get some time riding with others. Consider buying a cheap aviation frequency receiver and sitting at the airport listening to the tower and ground frequencies (at different times). Save your money until you can get at least five hours of dual in a short time. Not many low-time pilots could successfully complete an honest flight review after a year layoff.
 
I got chewed out 3 times by a controller there for screwing up my initial call to that tower.
Don't put up with that kind of treatment. After you land, call the tower and ask to speak to quality assurance. Tell them the time/date and your callsign so they can pull up the tapes. If you made mistakes, they'll talk about them on the phone and playback the tape for you. If the controller was less than professional they will deal with that, too.
 
Omar, go back to the first CFI and have him or her sign you off for the ground portion of the flight review. He/She told you that you did well, so no reason you need to REPEAT it. AND you paid for it!

I recall both have to be done by the same instructor. I’ll see if I can find a source.

Well, the language certainly implies a single instructor should endorse to having given both the ground and flight portions...

A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.
 
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Save your money until you can get at least five hours of dual in a short time. Not many low-time pilots could successfully complete an honest flight review after a year layoff.

Yep. When I had a 7 months break in flying some time ago, I took a couple of flights with an instructor (about 3 hours total) before going back to flying solo or with passengers. And that’s with ~400 hours total time, and I was still current with my BFR.
 
The review is supposed to be a REVIEW not an EVALUATION. It's not to certify the pilot is safe, but to mandate that he get a bare minimum of periodic training.
 
Don't put up with that kind of treatment. After you land, call the tower and ask to speak to quality assurance. Tell them the time/date and your callsign so they can pull up the tapes. If you made mistakes, they'll talk about them on the phone and playback the tape for you. If the controller was less than professional they will deal with that, too.

Prezactly. Professionalism is expected at both ends of the radio.
 
Are you a CFI? If someone came to me and said, “Bob down the street signed me off for the ground, so I just need the flight portion” I would politely decline.

I recall both have to be done by the same instructor. I’ll see if I can find a source.

Well, the language certainly implies a single instructor should endorse to having given both the ground and flight portions...

A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.

Of course as an instructor you are free to require anything you want before signing the endorsement. However, there is significant precedent for different people conducting the ground portion and the flight portion.

Example 1: From 61.215, a ground instructor is authorized to sign off the ground portion of a flight review. Since a sign-off of only the ground portion serves no purpose, this infers that someone else, a CFI, is signing off the flight portion.

Example 2: Sporty's sells an online flight review ground portion course. https://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/flight-review-online-course.html This course is marketed as counting for the ground portion of a flight review, and an electronic endorsement and certificate is provided. They do state the caveat that the CFI has the option to accept it or not, but the obvious intent is for you to coordinate with your CFI beforehand and for the CFI to accept it. I have done this method many times with flight review applicants.

Example 3: It's only happened once, but I had a flight review applicant that had done his ground portion with another CFI. I know this instructor, talked with him, and know he was actually way more thorough than I likely would have been. (The instructor could not fly due to a medical issue). So I had no problem counting his ground review. He signed off for the ground portion, I signed for the flight portion.
 
Well, Russ, it sounds like you’ve done your homework. As such, I stand corrected.

As I was looking around, I did find that a CFI renewal in the allotted time frame eliminates the need for the ground portion - I did not know that.
 
No I am in glendale and this is Angel Aviation
At GEU
I called the office and asked them to give me one hour of flight time after fixing the airplane and get it ready
But they didn't get back to me yet!
I appreciate all here giving me their words

I know there are a lot of great people out there, love to help others and support each others!
I know as my old CFI told me when I was first doing dual training: that the ATC will come with the time and nobody perfect with that, specially if your english not the mother language.. !
But with the time u become better!
That is why I don't fly faraway and don't go to complicated airspace, just flying around small airports and practice with my ATC APP

I have total of about 80 hours now, still not much but if this repeated again and again will make it hard to trust schools anymore! My goal was to get my 50 hours cross-country done so I can get my IFR
So I been saving each cent for all IFR stuff but now I am bleeding becaue of these two situations!

I understand that ATC is important, but I was about to ask the Tower to repeat it or say it slowly!
Plus that the audio in that airplane was not clear at all !
Thank you for all your inputs guys
Omar

Like others said here, I don't know what you are actually asking for here, but if I had to take a guess, I would say you are looking for someone to say that taking your money without the result you wanted isn't fair and that you are owed something. Honestly that is probably not going to happen. Nothing wrong with asking if they can help you out since the airplane was having issues, but it's not something you can expect. I think almost every single one of us has had mechanical issues with a rental plane and I'll bet 99% of us paid for that problem too. Most small schools struggle to make a profit. And that CFI that wouldn't sign you off, was still working for you. I'm guessing you wouldn't want to do a job for someone and then not get paid either. It's his job to make sure you are safe, and for whatever reason he didn't feel you were. I have met a few CFI's that were a bit ridiculous, but most are simply trying to do the best job they can which is to make sure you are not going to hurt yourself or someone else. If he signed you off and you went and hurt yourself or someone else, he would certainly be looked at too.

I took my first flight lesson when I was 18. I tried for years to get my ppl, but money, time, family, lack of cfi's etc. prevented me from completing it. At 40 I decided it was now or never. I did it. I value that achievement because of that adversity. Finances improved, and I now have my own airplane, so don't give up.

I do have a couple suggestions for you. I know several people who have gone and gotten a part time job at an FBO and their pay was given in flight time. Maybe call around and see if you can work off the time. You will not only get that precious flight time you want, but also make some friends and contacts along the way. The more people you know in this industry/hobby the better. You might be surprised at the opportunities that arise when you spend more time around it. Remember if you want something bad enough there is always a way. If you don't achieve it, you probably didn't want it bad enough.

Second suggestion would be to do arm chair/simulator flying. This is free! Pull up LiveATC or any other service that streams ATC, and spend some time listening to some channels. Preferably the ones you had issues with in the first place. Practice repeating what a controller said.

Last suggestion. You have a computer, do you have a simulator? I think every pilot should have one. Doesn't need to be fancy. You can set one up with a cheap yoke and the software for $100. You don't even need a yoke if you want to do it cheap. In my opinion, the best use of a simulator, isn't actually flying the plane, but practicing procedures. Simulators don't do that well at giving you stick skills, but they are great for everything else. Try out PilotEdge. For like $20 a month you can connect xplane to simulated ATC. These are real people that act as controllers, and you can simulate everything you would ever do in real life. You can do it as often as you would like without any additional cost. My son started taking lessons, and one of the first things I had him do was start working through the lessons on PilotEdge. He would fly the same routes over and over. We fly out of a pilot controlled airport, so talking to ATC is scary for everyone at first. His CFI is astonished at his radio work. She said it must be because your dad is a pilot. Nope it's because he practiced at home, over and over. This will end up being an INVALUABLE tool if you do continue into IFR training. In theory you can be practically prepared for a checkride by studying, watching videos, and flying the simulator, before you even take your first IFR lesson. Then you can spend all your time learning how to actually fly in IMC.

So like I said, if you want something bad enough there is always a way, and likely an affordable way to do it if you get creative and put in the effort.

Best of luck to you!
 
Don't put up with that kind of treatment. After you land, call the tower and ask to speak to quality assurance. Tell them the time/date and your callsign so they can pull up the tapes. If you made mistakes, they'll talk about them on the phone and playback the tape for you. If the controller was less than professional they will deal with that, too.

That ship has sailed Larry, I did consider it though. I didn't call because I figured I was a guest in the area and the instructor has to make his living there dealing with these people.

I absolutely made a mistake by not reporting my position. It was fixed quickly on the next call. It did not deserve the response I got, it was very unprofessional. My philosophy with controllers is not to lose my composure in the air it's not worth the distraction to me. I just try to get what I need out of them. That said, with only a few exceptions, I've always gotten great service from controllers, and I've heard so many controllers who should have blown their stack at incompetent pilots be nothing but courteous and patient with them.

Judging from Omar's experience I probably should have reported the incident. I think an instructor worrying about what a controller thinks or says because of what a student does sends a very bad message to students and pilots. Instructors who do that or are worried about what a controller thinks should knock that crap off.
 
I recall both have to be done by the same instructor. I’ll see if I can find a source.

Well, the language certainly implies a single instructor should endorse to having given both the ground and flight portions...

A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.

Eddie, when I decided to get current, I took AOPA’s Rusty Pilot Seminar. Those in attendance were given stickers for our log books, showing completion of ground portion and further told it was good for same. I then received a flight review and a checkout from a CFI where I was going to rent from. He had no problem with said endorsement for the ground portion.
 
Are you a CFI? If someone came to me and said, “Bob down the street signed me off for the ground, so I just need the flight portion” I would politely decline.

I see your point and I have no problem with that. See my post above. In my case, it was given as part of a nationwide AOPA program. MY CFI had no problem with it. He could have insisted and charged me for the hour and I would have been fine with it. But I see where you are coming from.
 
While ink was dry on my PPL I went from KFWS to KTKI. They were nice on Flight Following and we flew right through the Bravo, over KDFW, passenger got great pics.

When they switched me to tower I just said "Bugdestroyer 666, we'll be full stop." The controller said, "I need to know a lot more than that!" It was my mistake, I THOUGHT he knew the rest. So I added location and altitude and an apology. IIRC, he went on being robotic, no "got it, thanks" or "no problem".

End of the story? I lived! Pretty certain he did too!
 
Of course as an instructor you are free to require anything you want before signing the endorsement. However, there is significant precedent for different people conducting the ground portion and the flight portion.

Example 1: From 61.215, a ground instructor is authorized to sign off the ground portion of a flight review. Since a sign-off of only the ground portion serves no purpose, this infers that someone else, a CFI, is signing off the flight portion.

Example 2: Sporty's sells an online flight review ground portion course. https://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/flight-review-online-course.html This course is marketed as counting for the ground portion of a flight review, and an electronic endorsement and certificate is provided. They do state the caveat that the CFI has the option to accept it or not, but the obvious intent is for you to coordinate with your CFI beforehand and for the CFI to accept it. I have done this method many times with flight review applicants.

Example 3: It's only happened once, but I had a flight review applicant that had done his ground portion with another CFI. I know this instructor, talked with him, and know he was actually way more thorough than I likely would have been. (The instructor could not fly due to a medical issue). So I had no problem counting his ground review. He signed off for the ground portion, I signed for the flight portion.

4. If you pass a flight instructor review course you don't have to repeat the ground portion of the flight review.

However, I can't imagine getting in an airplane with another pilot, much less a student, without some preflight discussion.
 
Don't read too much into it. I had a wonderful father who loved me and raised me well, but he wasn't one to comfort me when things didn't go well,... very much a "suck it up, kid...try harder next time" kind of guy. You're attitude reminded me if him... not a bad thing. I have the same attitude towards myself and am grateful for it, and grateful to my father.
Thanks. I didn’t think you were insulting me I just wasn’t sure where you were headed with it that’s all.
My dad was the same way. I sure do miss him.
 
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