Failure in flight rivew !

O

Omar172

Filing Flight Plan
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Aug 17, 2020
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omar1977
Hi guys,
I am sure there are people here have so many years of flying and maybe CFIII and when they read this,it looks funny to them but remember not all people are the same with one thing..
You may be good in flying but really bad in some other things in life!

I am 42 earned my ppl 2018, for some financial reasons, I was not able to fly for one year, BUT I was able to fly in Jan 2019 and may 2019.

Back in Jan 2020 my flight rivew was due
I was renting airplanes from the some airport close to where I live, but that place closed out,

so I had to go find another place to fly which is more complicated airport with multiple runways▪

I found Guy to do my flight rivew and after we set for 1 hour ground, he said you are good!

Then we took the airplane and I did all the maneuvers with no errors and made great cross wind landing and he said I was grate .

But for some reason when I exited the runway hold short on the next runway I was not able to understand the Atc so he took the control and fail me and charged me $350 for one hour airplane + one hour his ground before the flight and one hour his ground after the ground talking to me about my atc problem!

I gave up , since I have big family and work in small job almost hard to make living to me and my 3 little kids! With today life

I gave up 6 months
Today I went to different school to do it again
I picked cessna 152 to fly since its only $110 compared to the $135 for 172

So the guy at the school finished one hour ground and he said you are grate!
Then we took the cessna 152 and first we left the runway the door opened because the handel is broken and need to be closed hard!

Then we returned back and I was able to make great emergency 8knot crosswind landing to full stop
Then we fixed the door then we turned back to take off and after we start climing upwind the oil temp went to red line ! It was hot day over 110f degree in Arizona so he told me we my have to return back and do it later different day when we fix the plane!

So I turned and landed back and he told me
I am sorry I am not able to give your the flight rivew endorsement and he charged me $225.00
And he said we need to take the 172 and the rate is 135 plus his time!

So in that case will be another $225

So until now I spent almost $800 if I will go to fly again and maybe something else my happen and loss another $225 :mad:

I decided to quit flying and my interest is now went down to 20%:(
My wife also told me not to throw good money without hope !
This is for real rich person no for people try to make living and have kids!
My quesion is , why flight rivews can be like check ride and coast more than check ride ?
In my case its not only $200
And that not only one time
Its every 24 months!

So I am throwing my logbook in my toilet and will back to my family and my lovely kids !
Thanks
O Z
 
ktup-flyer said:
You can’t fail a flight review... I also can’t imagine a cfi not signing your book because of not being able to understand a controller. Are you sure there isn’t more to the story?
Click to expand...
 
I was very good entire flight with all maneuvers and he confirmed to my that I had best crab and best landing!
He said u are not that good in ATC !
And he asked me to rent their airplane another 2 more hours and pay him for his time to go with me again! But I turned my back after throwing $350.00

But today the story was with the airplane itself
The oil temp indicator was almost touching the red line
And he was not alright with it! Same as me!
But he charged me his time in the plane 0.8 hour and airplane 0.8 hour too
Plus the 1 hour ground
Now I have no problem pay him for the ground but not the airplane and his time in the airplane as its their problem with the airplane not me! And we never got into the practice area yet!
Thank you for the reply !
 
No need to give up. Fly again some day again. Your kids will grow and your finances could improve. Many people have taken years or decades off of flying.

Maybe this CFI or flight school is trying to get more money.
 
I’ll assume this is a legit posting...

You pay for an instructor and airplane when you fly. Regardless of if you pass, fail, have a bad lesson, airplane breaks, etc. You still FLY a plane back to the airport to get something fixed. You aren’t getting out of that.

You don’t fail a Flight Review. You simply don’t get endorsed as having completed it.

Not understanding ATC about hold short instructions and having to have the instructor intervene, is pretty serious. Especially if you are checking out in their airplane for the first time or getting a Flight Review. I take it from the way your post is written that English is not your native language? They should have said, “let’s go flying again (not for 2 hours necessarily) and make sure I’m confident you can understand ATC before I provide the FR endorsement.”

The second place had no choice. If the oil is over temping and you have not been able to complete the FR, you’ll have to fly again. After it cools down, another day, another plane, etc. Instructors have schedules like airplanes.

Flying is expensive and getting an FR when you haven’t been flying in a year is not going to be cheap. If you can’t enjoy the FR and realize it may take a little longer since you don’t fly regularly, than maybe save a little more before attempting it.

Sorry you have lost the joy of flying. Money going out the door can do that. Gather your thoughts, pick another day and try again. If you can’t afford to fly regularly now make friends with someone that does so you can keep your foot in the door until the finances get better.
 
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I sense your frustration. Find a good EAA chapter and join. You’ve been dealing with people who’s only interest in you is money. The people at the Local EAA Chapter don’t have that issue they are in it for the love of flight. They will guide you to a better place. I haven’t been to my local flight school in years. I found better alternatives for flight reviews and instrument proficiency checks. You have the ppl in the bag. You have already done the hardest part. Find some mentors at EAA.
 
Sorry you had a bad experience. Even when I paid for flight reviews, they weren't as egregious as that. A flight review isn't supposed to be a rehash of a checkride, just an hour of proficiency flight instruction (and the hour of ground).
 
[Disbelief suspended]

Since your ground portion went well both times, you should only need to repeat the flight portion with whichever CFI you're more comfortable with.

I think the first CFI might have gotten his points across more quickly on the debrief. OTOH, your writing does indicate some issues with English proficiency may exist. But it could just be lazy typing.
 
Probably a troll. Most definitely a troll, but what the hell. Find another CFI.

I hadn't flown for a long time, 7 years, maybe, (have to look it up) when I got back in the game. Called my old Mooney savvy CFI, he pounded me on the ground for two hours. Then we flew for an hour and a half, and at the end, he said I was a little rusty, but perfectly safe and he signed my book. Back on the ground, I asked what I owed him, and he said give me $100 and we'll call it good. Done!

Find another CFI.
 
Flying should bring you joy. OP’s experiences don’t sound like joy to me. OP may well be better off getting back in the air when they have the ability to routinely fly.
 
I’m guessing by his writing that English may not be his first language hence not understanding the controller. Regardless, that is a serious problem that could and should prevent a sign off. As to the price, it seems a little high to me but instructors are in demand so they can near about charge what ever they want.
 
I’m just wondering what the op is looking for in this thread. Someone to pat him on the head or give him a hug ?WTF

We are responsible for our own happiness. There is no guarantee for equal outcome. Sometimes life is not fair. Fly... don’t fly... it doesn’t matter. Just make a choice and roll with whatever comes along.

there. I’ve fed a troll today.
 
Omar - I'm going out on a limb here and saying you were in Tucson and went to Double Eagle Aviation.

Am I right?
 
Omar, flying is perishable skill, you need to keep at it to stay proficient. If you can't fly regularly you should probably wait until you can before starting back. Missing a hold short instruction can kill you and someone else. Very serious.

As far as the airplane being broken, I would not have paid them or at least gotten a discount. If you go to a new instructor each time then you have to do the whole process again, keep that in mind.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I’m just wondering what the op is looking for in this thread. Someone to pat him on the head or give him a hug ?WTF

We are responsible for our own happiness. There is no guarantee for equal outcome. Sometimes life is not fair. Fly... don’t fly... it doesn’t matter. Just make a choice and roll with whatever comes along....
Click to expand...
Dad....is that you?
 
Let's stick with the assumption this is not a troll.

In both cases, we are talking about serious issues. Misunderstanding simple ATC instructions like "hold short" at a towered airport is serious, as is allowing temps to redline without taking steps to correct it.

The question in my mind - and I don't know the answer - is what else happened? Using the hold short error as an example, if that was all that happened, I would think the fix would be a good post-flight briefing - the "instruction" called for in the flight review reg - and some quizzing on towered airport operations. 30 minutes or an hour of ground at the most. If the pilot did not understand, no endorsement without more instruction. If the CFI is satisfied after the additional ground, the endorsement is given.

But I wasn't there.
 
ktup-flyer said:
You can’t fail a flight review...
Click to expand...
If, due to unsatisfactory performance, the instructor declines to provide a logbook endorsement certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review, why wouldn't you call that 'failing the flight review'?
 
..now a serious response. I don't think this is a troll. This is clearly an english as second language individual who was using a combination of speech to text and google translate. Guy got his license, doesn't fly much, and could not get a flight review sign off after a long period of being away from it all. It's semantics whether we call that a fail or not.. either way he did not pass. And it's good he didn't, missing ATC calls and neglecting instruments in the plane can easily lead to a fatal accident.. both instructors may have saved this guy's life

Not too sure what he's looking for here, but unfortunately as was stated above aviation demands a dedication requiring some combination of financial abilities, time availability, and intellectual strengths. OP probably has some ingredients but it's apparent from this post that he's not quite there; yet

OP.. if you're interested in pursuing this hobby seriously then make a plan, save up for it, and go from there. In my opinion you need to fly 2-4 hrs per month minimum.. or at least 50 hrs per year.. and that's the bare bare minimum. Assuming $200/hr overall (just be safe, pad your figures) that puts you at $10K for the year.. that's not a huge amount of money. If you can double that to $20K per year you'll be in even better shape

But I agree with your family, don't keep spending money on flight reviews at different schools, it seems like, at least for now, you need to take a step back and do some planning. Heck, while you're saving money there's nothing stopping you from learning and immersing yourself in aviation. No PoA does not count.
 
by the way.. she hadn't flown in about a year.. so you can always come back to flying.. and your PPL never expires. So don't lose hope OP!

 
Omar172 said:
Then we took the cessna 152 and first we left the runway the door opened because the handel is broken and need to be closed hard! Then we returned back and I was able to make great emergency 8knot crosswind landing to full stop
Then we fixed the door then we turned back to take off
Click to expand...
Far from an emergency situation. I’ve had a door open in a 152 twice - one was on my check ride. Reach over and pull the door close... no big deal.
 
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^but did you throw your logbook in your toilet?
 
Palmpilot said:
If, due to unsatisfactory performance, the instructor declines to provide a logbook endorsement certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review, why wouldn't you call that 'failing the flight review'?
Click to expand...

Joe rusty pilot shows up for a flight review. Joe finishes the ground training and takes a 1 hour flight. Instructor tells Joe he needs a couple more hours to knock the rust off before the instructor is able/willing to sign off.

I personally don’t see that as a failure. Then again, when I was in that situation I assumed it would take more than 1 flight to feel comfortable. Maybe “failure” depends on the expectations when going into the review.
 
Tantalum said:
^but did you throw your logbook in your toilet?
Click to expand...

Who has a toilet that can flush a logbook? An outhouse perhaps, or a port-a-potty. But I imagine that was just an expression.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Omar - I'm going out on a limb here and saying you were in Tucson and went to Double Eagle Aviation.

Am I right?
Click to expand...
No I am in glendale and this is Angel Aviation
At GEU
I called the office and asked them to give me one hour of flight time after fixing the airplane and get it ready
But they didn't get back to me yet!
I appreciate all here giving me their words

I know there are a lot of great people out there, love to help others and support each others!
I know as my old CFI told me when I was first doing dual training: that the ATC will come with the time and nobody perfect with that, specially if your english not the mother language.. !
But with the time u become better!
That is why I don't fly faraway and don't go to complicated airspace, just flying around small airports and practice with my ATC APP

I have total of about 80 hours now, still not much but if this repeated again and again will make it hard to trust schools anymore! My goal was to get my 50 hours cross-country done so I can get my IFR
So I been saving each cent for all IFR stuff but now I am bleeding becaue of these two situations!

I understand that ATC is important, but I was about to ask the Tower to repeat it or say it slowly!
Plus that the audio in that airplane was not clear at all !
Thank you for all your inputs guys
Omar
 
Tantalum said:
..might be too late, OP has since dispensed with his logbook





Private Joker is silly and he's ignorant but he's got guts and guts is enough
Click to expand...

Thank you for your replay sir..

I Don't use GOOGLE translation, yes my English is not my mother or father language, but I can understand people and can make people understand me,
The TV AD has nothing to do with my flying experience with those two CFIs
We can complicate it more or we can make it easier, simply That I been told so many times that (no body is 100% perfect in flying..otherwise we don't see experts pilots spent 40 years flying with all kind of rating having Fatal crash and die!
There are different between 16 years old guy riding motorcycle than 45 years old guy riding the same motorcycle!

To be educated in life, know the value of the family and appreciate the age will get you in a lot of troubles and can prevent a lot of rushing!

I understand my ublity and I take it slowly without complicating things right away..
What that mean .. I don't fly anywhere or anytime
I fly localy in one or two airports, small enough, less traffic, during cool days and not stress myself and go to fly where is 1000 airplanes landing per second!

Till I pick the experience with more hours and find friends with IFR rating can fly with them in those heavy traffic airports!
In the same time, Yes the money is big issue
And yes I should fly 4 hours per month, but I CAN'T!
You may can based on your income but not every pilot have that ability.

And we can see pilots setting few years without flying for different reasons!

And when I said: I will throw the logbook into the toilet: I didn't mean will go to open my toilet cover and throw it there but I mean when you soent $$$$ to build that book then if the end arrived forcing you to hate this becaue of some people doing things from the money prospective then the word toilet was the right concept to that example

Sorry for my Unger but I like you said must find differt way to get things done right (trustable school.or CFI
Till then will hold short in my home!
Thank you very much
Omar
 
Palmpilot said:
If, due to unsatisfactory performance, the instructor declines to provide a logbook endorsement certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review, why wouldn't you call that 'failing the flight review'?
Click to expand...
Simply ,, you can't fly again becaue you didn't pass the FR!
 
Omar172 said:
I will throw the logbook into the toilet
Click to expand...
haha I figured.. I just thought it was funny. I'm usually the one on these forums with the dramatic hyperbole. I think I recently recommended throwing the current crop of Continental and Lycoming engines all in the trash (it was a joke, but demonstrated my frustration with the lack of innovation (but understand the massive obstacles in place))

Omar172 said:
Till I pick the experience with more hours and find friends with IFR rating can fly with them in those heavy traffic airports!
In the same time, Yes the money is big issue
And yes I should fly 4 hours per month, but I CAN'T!
You may can based on your income but not every pilot have that ability.
Click to expand...
That's the tough thing with flying. I thing there are a ton of people who possess the intellectual capability (IE, they're smart and talented enough) but for various reason get discouraged and give up flying. Lots of people have trouble finding a good CFI or flying school/club, while others simply are limited by some factor of time, their family, money, work, etc.

You've got people with the time and skills but no money
You've got people with all the money they could possibly ever need but simply no time (or lack the skill)
and you have people somewhere in between

**don't get discouraged. Being able to fly a couple times a month is critical to being safe. 3 landings every 90 days is legal, but that's not safe in my book. It would be worth taking a break for a few years and putting money away each month to be save towards it. If 50 hrs a year is too much, then cut that to 25 and be safe and local and stay involved.

For what it's worth I took a good 10 year break from flying (money, time, all that stuff got in the way)
 
If you don't have the money or will to fly despite these kinds of setbacks then flying is not for you. Cynical, but true.
 
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^basically what I'm trying to say in a gentle way

I really think you have to be able to afford to fly at least 50 hours a year to be safe. If someone's finances don't allow that then unfortunately flying may not before them

Hell, I'd love to restore and collect Duesenbergs but my finances won't allow that. Lots of people treat flying like it's someone of "right" - I'm not necessarily accusing the OP of that, but, it is something I've noticed of this hobby
 
The po
Tantalum said:
^basically what I'm trying to say in a gentle way

I really think you have to be able to afford to fly at least 50 hours a year to be safe. If someone's finances don't allow that then unfortunately flying may not before them

Hell, I'd love to restore and collect Duesenbergs but my finances won't allow that. Lots of people treat flying like it's someone of "right" - I'm not necessarily accusing the OP of that, but, it is something I've noticed of this hobby
Click to expand...

The point I am putting here is not about how expensive is the flying is!!
We have to separate that from the thread maybe another great with TITLE (flying is expensive(

BUT my topic here about people taking advantage of others!

The first CFI confirmed that I had great flying abilities and grate reacting to situations!

But the problem happened WHEN I WAS MAD about the flight controller and tried to ask him to repeat what he said!

This js totally LEGAL in aviation to ask the controller to repeat any command!!!!!!!

The second CFI was renting plane he knew it was not good to fly it in the middle of the day at 120F heat !

And to add piace of information here···
I did asked him about his weight since he is a big guy
And I am only 167lb
He answered (I am 250lb(
And I asked him to take the cooler out of the plane since it was only 152 and the weight of the cooler was about 50lb plus the density was not that grate

And I told him I dought that we will be able to do power on stall and all steep turns without brake the hell out of the plane

And to make that decision and return to the airport was initialy my first request to him! Then he agreed about it later when we were 4nm away from the airport !

So if you CFI hired by school weight 250lb without your IPad or other stuff taking with you plus heavy cooler with full fule and me 167lb including my iPad and other water bottles
In middle of the hell hot 120f day in little 152c
And 1100msl runway !
What a CFI and school was that?
Is that safe?
But its all about money Dude!

So he could tell me when first I called the school
How many lb you weight, our c152 rated that much gross weight. How tge airplane act in the heat!
Etc before booking time and spend other people hard earned money $$$
Am I correct or everything what I just said us wrong!

I see many people here talking about how ATC is dangerous to not fallow and not single qout regard the way the CFI giving lesons in wrong airplane in wrong time and weight!
Sorry for going over what your guys saying but this from 42 years old guy spent life in aviation love
And going through differnt CFIs and different kind of people
Flying RC models since 20 years and not just came yesterday to this world!
 
Omar172 said:
The po


The point I am putting here is not about how expensive is the flying is!!
We have to separate that from the thread maybe another great with TITLE (flying is expensive(

BUT my topic here about people taking advantage of others!

The first CFI confirmed that I had great flying abilities and grate reacting to situations!

But the problem happened WHEN I WAS MAD about the flight controller and tried to ask him to repeat what he said!

This js totally LEGAL in aviation to ask the controller to repeat any command!!!!!!!

The second CFI was renting plane he knew it was not good to fly it in the middle of the day at 120F heat !

And to add piace of information here···
I did asked him about his weight since he is a big guy
And I am only 167lb
He answered (I am 250lb(
And I asked him to take the cooler out of the plane since it was only 152 and the weight of the cooler was about 50lb plus the density was not that grate

And I told him I dought that we will be able to do power on stall and all steep turns without brake the hell out of the plane

And to make that decision and return to the airport was initialy my first request to him! Then he agreed about it later when we were 4nm away from the airport !

So if you CFI hired by school weight 250lb without your IPad or other stuff taking with you plus heavy cooler with full fule and me 167lb including my iPad and other water bottles
In middle of the hell hot 120f day in little 152c
And 1100msl runway !
What a CFI and school was that?
Is that safe?
But its all about money Dude!

So he could tell me when first I called the school
How many lb you weight, our c152 rated that much gross weight. How tge airplane act in the heat!
Etc before booking time and spend other people hard earned money $$$
Am I correct or everything what I just said us wrong!

I see many people here talking about how ATC is dangerous to not fallow and not single qout regard the way the CFI giving lesons in wrong airplane in wrong time and weight!
Sorry for going over what your guys saying but this from 42 years old guy spent life in aviation love
And going through differnt CFIs and different kind of people
Flying RC models since 20 years and not just came yesterday to this world!
Click to expand...
Crying about the past doesn’t change the future.
 
in fact I replaced CFI in school for charging me 30 min ground for changing airplans because the first airplane had problem and they knew about it and never told the students at that time!
And when I did the precheck I found the lights not working and from locking the airplane into grapping the other key for the other airplane
She added 30 min of charge on my Depit card!
I don’t believe its fare !
 
Salty said:
Crying about the past doesn’t change the future.
Click to expand...
Your right ✅
But we need to stop scammers from making the flying even more expensive and bring hate to the hobby from these acts !

Plus we should learn from these mistakes and how we trust
 
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