F150

Speaking of 4.6's... I just took delivery of a 2004 Mercury Maurader. Initial desire is to sell the engine/trans/brain/accessories as a dropout kit.

I'll have the parts up on eBay this weekend.
 
Mike. When you're in Denver, I have a Sanford and Son ringtone.

It was a joke about the state of some of our old server hardware at work until they cracked open the piggy bank, but I can re-enable it just for your visit. ;)
 
What I find funny about this is that Jesse never changed the oil on his Sunfire in ~60,000 miles, and now he's doing some significant oil changes on his F-150.

I've never done oil analysis on a vehicle, and don't really want to. It'll give me indications when it chooses to that it's time for a new engine.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
What I find funny about this is that Jesse never changed the oil on his Sunfire in ~60,000 miles, and now he's doing some significant oil changes on his F-150.

I've never done oil analysis on a vehicle, and don't really want to. It'll give me indications when it chooses to that it's time for a new engine.
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Some indications you'd detect way earlier, like a head gasket problem, and you could make it not your problem before it became a real one. If you could convince yourself to do that which I really couldn't.

Mostly though, I like numbers and data.
 
Thing is car engines aren't expensive enough, and are durable enough that oil sampling over the life of an engine to predict and prevent catastrophic failure will cost more than the results of the failure.
 
Last time I had a head gasket problem, the radiator fluid burning in huge clouds of white smoke out the exhaust pipe pretty much gave it away. ;) Think that was in the Summer of 1990.
 
Henning said:
Thing is car engines aren't expensive enough, and are durable enough that oil sampling over the life of an engine to predict and prevent catastrophic failure will cost more than the results of the failure.
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200,000 miles / 5000 mi change interval * 25 = $1000. So it's quite possible that what you say wouldnt hold water. Just depends when it happens and what it was.

It may or may not make a difference. I mostly just find the data interesting.
 
Just drive it! :D Seriously, I don't put any faith in oil analysis in automobile engines, it's got 130K on it, if it's a little noisy, most 5.4's are, sounds like a lifter, but its the cam followers, no biggie. You can replace the followers and still have the noise.:mad2: the 5.4 is a good engine, not great on MPG's, but they should go 200K with reasonable care and feeding, 5000 mile oil and filter changes, fresh air and fuel filter once in a while and you're good to go.;) I'm not a mechanic, but I've been in the Ford business my entire adult life.;)
 
F150s are piles of junk. The '97 I have now needs gas about every five or six days, and with 203K on it it rattles when on rough dirt roads. The 88 I had before only lasted 294K with that 300 straight six in it. :D (OTBW why in heck did they quit making that 300 straight six????)
 
Threefingeredjack said:
F150s are piles of junk. The '97 I have now needs gas about every five or six days, and with 203K on it it rattles when on rough dirt roads. The 88 I had before only lasted 294K with that 300 straight six in it. :D (OTBW why in heck did they quit making that 300 straight six????)
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Want me to see if I can get you a refund? ;)
I think the 300 six wasn't going to meet the emission standards that were being implemented, but I'm not sure. It was a GREAT engine, good mileage, good torque etc. The new 3.7 V6 is a good motor and the 3.5 V6 Eco Boost is AMAZING. :D
 
jesse said:
Some indications you'd detect way earlier, like a head gasket problem, and you could make it not your problem before it became a real one. If you could convince yourself to do that which I really couldn't.
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That's pretty much my point. On an aircraft engine, it would make more sense (although I still don't do oil samples on the aircraft engines, just cut open the filters). My preference is to drive until I have an indication of a problem. For flying, I'm looking at other indicators closely enough to stay satisfied.

Mostly though, I like numbers and data.
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This is the biggest reason to do it on a car. Like I said, it's just funny considering your previous oil changes on the Sunfire. I was happy with my 6.8 V10 (which is basically the 5.4 with an extra two cylinders). It was a durable engine that I just changed oil in. Sold with 159k and no problems. Main issue that the Ford mod motors have are the coil-on-plugs.
 
jesse said:
200,000 miles / 5000 mi change interval * 25 = $1000. So it's quite possible that what you say wouldnt hold water. Just depends when it happens and what it was.

It may or may not make a difference. I mostly just find the data interesting.
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That's the best reason for doing them. The thing is that the $1000 in a car will only save you the cost of a tow truck and a crankshaft (if anything), $400. Airplanes predicting failure has high value, in a car it's low value.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
(OTBW why in heck did they quit making that 300 straight six????)
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I have no clue, that was the best light work truck engine ever. I had a 77 with 3 in the tree and that thing got 27mpg driving it as an around town work/delivery truck. I'm pretty sure they're still using it in Aus an NZ
 
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Henning said:
That's the best reason for doing them. The thing is that the $1000 in a car will only save you the cost of a tow truck and a crankshaft (if anything), $400. Airplanes predicting failure has high value, in a car it's low value.
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And there's the convenience of fixing it on your schedule. I deal with planned car repairs much better than uplanned ones. I'll change belts, hoses, and batteries every 4 or 5 years because that seems to be their trustworthy life. There are nowhere on the level of of what Jesse does, but I agree with his thinking.
 
N747JB said:
Want me to see if I can get you a refund? ;)
I think the 300 six wasn't going to meet the emission standards that were being implemented, but I'm not sure. It was a GREAT engine, good mileage, good torque etc. The new 3.7 V6 is a good motor and the 3.5 V6 Eco Boost is AMAZING. :D
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Your right John, the 3.5 is an awesome engine. What dealership are you with? I am the parts mgr. at a small dealership here in central Alabama.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
And there's the convenience of fixing it on your schedule. I deal with planned car repairs much better than uplanned ones. I'll change belts, hoses, and batteries every 4 or 5 years because that seems to be their trustworthy life. There are nowhere on the level of of what Jesse does, but I agree with his thinking.
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You replace parts on a schedule of known failure to prevent reaching it. That's the same as changing a modern engine out at 250k miles. Sampling the oil is on the order of taking belt scrapings to the lab to see how far along the the process of degradation they are.
 
mikeinbama said:
Your right John, the 3.5 is an awesome engine. What dealership are you with? I am the parts mgr. at a small dealership here in central Alabama.
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Mike, I have John Bleakley Ford, my dad started back in 68, we're just west of Atlanta in Lithia Springs. You at Gilmore in Prattville?
 
N747JB said:
Mike, I have John Bleakley Ford, my dad started back in 68, we're just west of Atlanta in Lithia Springs. You at Gilmore in Prattville?
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Yippie.... A FORD fanatic.:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod::)..

Next time a customer comes in complaining that a Ford in not dependable show them this pic..... Plane has over 400 hours on it..... That equals more then twice around the world at the equator... And it still runs..:yesnod::yesnod:;):D
 

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Henning said:
You replace parts on a schedule of known failure to prevent reaching it. That's the same as changing a modern engine out at 250k miles. Sampling the oil is on the order of taking belt scrapings to the lab to see how far along the the process of degradation they are.
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Uh, actually, no, I don't replace on a known schedule. I look at the belts and hoses and feel them. The hoses start feeling "squishy" as they age. I can see belts wearing and/or cracking, but this takes about 4-5 years. Batteries- I do replace as per time since I don't have the equipment to determine battery health and a battery doesn't owe me much after 5 years.

If my belt scraping start showing signs of nylon, that tells me I'm seeing the belt core and it should be replaced. Likewise, a change or increase of certain metals in the oil tells something to a knowledgable person and they can react to the problem in a controlled fashion on their schedule. No payment for a tow truck, no loss of work or vacation time, and the work can be done by a trusted mechanic. I suspect Jesse would do it himself and it's easier to do at home rather than when passing through Perdum, NE. Having the situation under control is worth the $1000 over the engine life.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Uh, actually, no, I don't replace on a known schedule. I look at the belts and hoses and feel them. The hoses start feeling "squishy" as they age. I can see belts wearing and/or cracking, but this takes about 4-5 years. Batteries- I do replace as per time since I don't have the equipment to determine battery health and a battery doesn't owe me much after 5 years.

If my belt scraping start showing signs of nylon, that tells me I'm seeing the belt core and it should be replaced. Likewise, a change or increase of certain metals in the oil tells something to a knowledgable person and they can react to the problem in a controlled fashion on their schedule. No payment for a tow truck, no loss of work or vacation time, and the work can be done by a trusted mechanic. I suspect Jesse would do it himself and it's easier to do at home rather than when passing through Perdum, NE. Having the situation under control is worth the $1000 over the engine life.
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Excellent, you use personal knowledge of condition to maximize life, even better. Thing is you aren't continually paying somebody else money to provide you information along the was that has a very limited potential of showing return on investment. I'm not against what Jesse is doing, for a $1000 it's worth it for idle curiosity and general knowledge of the way an engine wears, no worries. I'm not against oil work being done, I use it all the time. However, the stakes are much higher dollar for the exact same cost so the value is much greater. That serves to satisfy my curiosity to the point that I don't do it where the cash value doesn't exist. For those that have no curiosity, the oil sampling on a car is pretty low value that the information will ever save you money. (how many cars have you had die of catastrophic wear induced engine failure?)
 
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N801BH said:
Yippie.... A FORD fanatic.:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod::)..

Next time a customer comes in complaining that a Ford in not dependable show them this pic..... Plane has over 400 hours on it..... That equals more then twice around the world at the equator... And it still runs..:yesnod::yesnod:;):D
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It was never the engines that gave up too soon on my Fords. It was always the plastic interior squeaking and creaking and cracking and that even on "premium" interiors like the "Eddie Bower" editions of the 90s and early 2000s.

That and funny noises from differentials and drivetrain, but they usually would go another 50,000 miles making those noises.

That straight six was a good engine. I had one in my 89 F-150 and paired with the manual transmission was a decent performer up here at this altitude but I got rid of it due to other stuff breaking all the time. The clutch was also about to go but that was because I was mean to it. ;)

I owned two F-150s. They never left me beside the road but they always seemed like they were about to. I said "never again" on Ford trucks after that. I might be convinced to try again from new where I got to know and handle all maintenance. A co-worker just bought a new one with the Coyote engine and that thing rocks and rolls both from an economy standpoint and for towing. He's passing a lot of people with big diesels with identical 27' trailers on hills. The variable valve timing and other computer controls really make that engine perform. The big V8 with "EcoBoost" one size up from that is crap by comparison.

The Jeep Cherokee (original/"Classic" model) was indestructible. I've owned two of those. Drove the bejesus out of them. Only thing they ever did was have leaky rear main seals.

Jury's still out on my GMC Yukon. I see that the thermometer display in the rear view mirror died sometime in the last week. It's always electrical in Chevy's. The 350 under the hood is another indestructible motor other than the substandard case bolts that are all rusting out, fleet-wide. The bad electrical servos in the instrument cluster suck too, but there was a recall on those.

Dad's 91 Suburban 3/4 ton keeps going but gets a consistent 8 MPG loaded or unloaded... Ha!... the later model Tahoe he had was plagued by electrical problems that would activate the 4WD system when not desired. He chased that problem on and off for three years and sold it.

He has a Subaru wagon as a daily driver now and it's pretty nice but I heard the usual piston slap of an opposed 4 starting to be noticeable when he stopped by the other day. It'll run forever doing that though. The Subaru AWD system walks all over everything else out there if properly maintained.
 
Fact is you could make any of the engines do it to it; you could just do it for the least nmoney with a Chevy. Parts, even aftermarket, were always higher for other applications.
 
N747JB said:
Mike, I have John Bleakley Ford, my dad started back in 68, we're just west of Atlanta in Lithia Springs. You at Gilmore in Prattville?
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I know your dealership. I have bought parts from you from time to time. And no, it's not Gilmore. It would be nice to work so close to home. I am at Moore-Stewart in Selma. I drive about 90 miles round trip. It's amazing to me all the people you "meet" on these forums. I guess you and I will have to carry the banner for Ford. Have you ever met my boss, Todd Stewart? He is a pilot as well although he hasn't flown in a few years. I keep telling him that the dealership really needs an airplane....so far he hasn't agreed.:mad2:
 
Fwiw: I represent almost exclusively construction trade contractors, the folks who actually do the work. They get Chevrolets for the superintendent's truck, but the true work trucks, the ones they expect to pull the loads and do the big work, they are pretty much always Ford F250 diesels. They drive a couple hundred thousand miles pulling loads, then they sell them to the foremen, who use them another could hundred thousand miles. If they run, they are worth several thousand dollars.

Toyotas, Nissans, good for light duty work, not so much heavy duty, serious hauling.

Service trucks, some have good success with the Mercedes Sprinters with the diesel. High cost up front, very low fuel consumption.
 
F250 is definitely a different truck altogether than the F150.

Chevy 3/4 ton is also a completely different truck than the 1/2 ton variants.

With an appropriate difference in price tag, too.
 
denverpilot said:
It was never the engines that gave up too soon on my Fords. It was always the plastic interior squeaking and creaking and cracking and that even on "premium" interiors like the "Eddie Bower" editions of the 90s and early 2000s.

That and funny noises from differentials and drivetrain, but they usually would go another 50,000 miles making those noises.

That straight six was a good engine. I had one in my 89 F-150 and paired with the manual transmission was a decent performer up here at this altitude but I got rid of it due to other stuff breaking all the time. The clutch was also about to go but that was because I was mean to it. ;)

I owned two F-150s. They never left me beside the road but they always seemed like they were about to. I said "never again" on Ford trucks after that. I might be convinced to try again from new where I got to know and handle all maintenance. A co-worker just bought a new one with the Coyote engine and that thing rocks and rolls both from an economy standpoint and for towing. He's passing a lot of people with big diesels with identical 27' trailers on hills. The variable valve timing and other computer controls really make that engine perform. The big V8 with "EcoBoost" one size up from that is crap by comparison.
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The only Coyote engine I know of is a Ford Racing product, not available in a production vehicle.;) unless he's calling the 6.2 V8 a coyote? the EcoBoost is a 3.5L V6 and my customers LOVE them so far, the local sheriff, life long Chevy owner, wanted a V8 Lariat 4X4 and when he drove the EcoBoost, he bought it on the spot!
 
SCCutler said:
Fwiw: I represent almost exclusively construction trade contractors, the folks who actually do the work. They get Chevrolets for the superintendent's truck, but the true work trucks, the ones they expect to pull the loads and do the big work, they are pretty much always Ford F250 diesels. They drive a couple hundred thousand miles pulling loads, then they sell them to the foremen, who use them another could hundred thousand miles. If they run, they are worth several thousand dollars.
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Because they are the cheapest of the diesels, especially when you buy a small fleet. Ford always made the best fleet deals.
 
The 3.5 ecoboost v6 is bada$$. no offense, but anyone calling it crap hasnt driven one.
 
N747JB said:
The only Coyote engine I know of is a Ford Racing product, not available in a production vehicle.;) unless he's calling the 6.2 V8 a coyote? the EcoBoost is a 3.5L V6 and my customers LOVE them so far, the local sheriff, life long Chevy owner, wanted a V8 Lariat 4X4 and when he drove the EcoBoost, he bought it on the spot!
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Well there's what I get for listening to the office Ford fanatic describe his truck. He did have to special order it. Dunno. Ha.

Like I said, I have had a strict "no Fords" rule which is being tested by the no-bailout companies business too. Ha.

Now I have to find out WTH he's been rambling about. Have ridden in the truck. It's nice. Somehow he says he has the Coyote engine in it. He must be confused.
 
Maybe coyote to him means that it *runs* every time he looks at it?
 
Coyote. Hmm. Wasn't that the car they drove in Hardcastle & McCormick?

I had looked at F150s a couple of times. We don't tow, so I wanted a 4.6 3-valve with leather -- couldn't get one, simply not possible. I was not willing to take the 5.4. I'm really glad they didn't make what I wanted in 2009 or 2010, because the 3.5 EcoBoost is everything I could have asked for. And you almost never hear the turbos... except when you want to. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Like I said, it's just funny considering your previous oil changes on the Sunfire.
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Well. The thing is -- I didn't like the Sunfire but I wasn't about to just buy another car because I didn't like it. So I just didn't change the oil, hoping it would one day blow up, it never did.
 
denverpilot said:
Well there's what I get for listening to the office Ford fanatic describe his truck. He did have to special order it. Dunno. Ha.

Like I said, I have had a strict "no Fords" rule which is being tested by the no-bailout companies business too. Ha.

Now I have to find out WTH he's been rambling about. Have ridden in the truck. It's nice. Somehow he says he has the Coyote engine in it. He must be confused.
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If it's an F150, he's got 4 choices, 3.7 V6, 3.5 V6 EcoBoost, 5.0 V8 or a 6.2 V8. The 6.2 is a beast, it'll pass everything but a gas station!:eek: The days of special orders are long gone, unless it's a major fleet, you can't even get a special paint color anymore!:dunno:
 
jesse said:
Well. The thing is -- I didn't like the Sunfire but I wasn't about to just buy another car because I didn't like it. So I just didn't change the oil, hoping it would one day blow up, it never did.
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You just found out a great scam in the auto industry, oil changes. You don't have to change your oil, just the filter when it starts clogging (depends how dusty where you live) and periodic top up with fresh. Your engine doesn't care what the oil looks like or it's properties. The bearings mostly use oil to carry away heat, it's actually the properties of the dissimilar metals that makes the bearing part of it work, not the lubrication. As long as the oil absorbs heat and doesn't carry large solid particles in it, the car will last the same amount of time. Way more likely the car gets totaled than blows an engine anyway. Oil changes on cars are a scam and a waste of money. Just get your engine up to temp most every time you run it and keep enough oil in it and change the filter periodically.
 
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Henning said:
You just found out a great scam in the auto industry, oil changes. You don't have to change your oil, just the filter when it starts clogging (depends how dusty where you live) and periodic top up with fresh. Your engine doesn't care what the oil looks like or it's properties. The bearings mostly use oil to carry away heat, it's actually the properties of the dissimilar metals that makes the bearing part of it work, not the lubrication. As long as the oil absorbs heat and doesn't carry large solid particles in it, the car will last the same amount of time. Way more likely the car gets totaled than blows an engine anyway. Oil changes on cars are a scam and a waste of money. Just get your engine up to temp most every time you run it and keep enough oil in it and change the filter periodically.
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unless you have a 7.3 diesel. in which case not changing you oil will cost you 8 injectors faster than you would like. And we will just have to agree to disagree on not changing you oil in other things. I have seen the inside of thousands of engines, some did and some didnt. I could tell the difference and so could most 7th graders.
 
I know that, in some cars, the failure to (1) change oil and (2) use full-synthetic, can cuse serious issues. VW turbo 1.8, if you run non-synthetic oil, will gunk up, costly disassembly and sludge cleanup. Not so with a good synthetic.

Many Nissan 4s (such as those used in the Infiniti 20 series) will have oil gallery passages clog if oil it changed aggressively. Seen it.
 
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